RE: BMW M5(s): Pic of the Week

RE: BMW M5(s): Pic of the Week

Sunday 9th December 2018

BMW M5(s): Pic of the Week

The full feature is coming soon; time to liven up your desktop first!



Really, there's no justification required for bringing a trio of M5s together; for more than 30 years now they've been the definitive super saloons, combining amazing engines with lairy dynamics and a certain muscular style that's made them hard to beat. And very easy to love.

So 'because M5' would have been reason enough, but the real logic behind bringing together E39, E60 and the latest F90 Competition was to see just how far the model has evolved since the turn of the century. Ostensibly the current car is a V8 powered, four-door saloon with a sporting bent, just like the M5 was in the year 2000. But you'll know that so much has changed since then also: automatic gearboxes, turbochargers and four-wheel drive being just the start.

The aim, therefore, was to discover whether so much of what was loved about the E39 - and to a similar extent the wild V10 version - has made it to the latest M5. Yes, yes, tough job and so on. It's a feature you can read on PH in the coming days, one for a dark and dingy winter night with a festive drink in hand - even if we do say so ourselves.

It won't spoil anything to say that all three 21st century M5s are superb in their own unique ways, which is why we couldn't limit this Pic of the Week to just one option. See below for a pair of choices, and get downloading now!

Option 1:
16:10
16:9
Quad HD
4K

Option 2:
16:10
16:9
Quad HD
4K

Images: Olgun Kordal

Author
Discussion

HuggyBearFezzy

Original Poster:

44 posts

120 months

Sunday 9th December 2018
quotequote all
I'm looking forward to reading this feature.

Elysium

2,220 posts

125 months

Sunday 9th December 2018
quotequote all
No F10 ?

Niffty951

1,686 posts

166 months

Sunday 9th December 2018
quotequote all
My E39 M5 manual was without any doubt one of the best cars I've ever had the pleasure to drive. Effortlessly smooth, dynamically taught, as raw as a 1950's American hot rod if driven on the lock stops, as peaceful and relaxing as a first class flight if pootleing along at 85 in 6th. It excelled expectation in every area except fuel consumption, where my 4.2 supercharged XKR could out pace it in a straight line and yet comfortably achieve 10mpg better in any given drive.

However, I would still have picked the E34 as the purest form of the M5 recipe. The ultimate criminal with leather soled shoes and a sharp suit.

...and why did they stop making manual M5's. It is a sin to take away the driving connection that separated them from fast Mercedes.

Baddie

316 posts

155 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
I’ve had two 3.8 E34’s. Ercole Spada (Aston DB4 Zagato) lines and the original motorsport engine in its ultimate evolution. Had no traction or stability control, and didn’t need it, even in snow. Always exciting to drive anywhere thanks to the incredible throttle response, and relaxing because it was refined and so clear in its communication.

Ares

7,683 posts

58 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
Niffty951 said:
...and why did they stop making manual M5's. It is a sin to take away the driving connection that separated them from fast Mercedes.
Because nobody bought them....?

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Baddie

316 posts

155 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
The US got manual E60’s and F10’s due to customer demand. 75% of GT3’s there are bought with manual boxes

Ares

7,683 posts

58 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
Baddie said:
The US got manual E60’s and F10’s due to customer demand. 75% of GT3’s there are bought with manual boxes
True, but the SMG M5 still outsells manual 10:1.

...and with Porsches accordingly to the article by Jethro Bovington this year, it was 50/50 for the GT3, now moved to 66% due to the Touring.

USA are to be thanked for keeping the Manual alive as they still sell in decent numbers....but worldwide, high performance manuals just don't sell. As the auto/PDK/etc has evolved unrecognisably and outperforms the manual in every measurable metric, the manual has stayed largely the same.

RenesisEvo

3,069 posts

157 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
Niffty951 said:
My E39 M5 manual was without any doubt one of the best cars I've ever had the pleasure to drive. Effortlessly smooth, dynamically taught, as raw as a 1950's American hot rod if driven on the lock stops, as peaceful and relaxing as a first class flight if pootleing along at 85 in 6th. It excelled expectation in every area except fuel consumption, where my 4.2 supercharged XKR could out pace it in a straight line and yet comfortably achieve 10mpg better in any given drive..
+1 I loved my E39 M5, just ruinous to keep in good shape as they are getting on a bit now. Fabulous car, a shining example of how to do it right without adaptive dampers and 20 driver modes.

I've since had the opportunity to try an F10 and F90. The F10 lacked aural character but felt like the E39 in the way it went down the road, the balance and ride quality and control weights. The loss in response and sound were countered by much more modern interfaces and interior. The F90 is staggeringly capable but as a result just so bland, the character seems to have been erased sadly. It seems to have lost what made it a beguiling car in the name of speed metrics, trying to keep up in the never-ending arms race of torque and 'Ring times.

I'll be interested to see if PH agree.

KPB1973

157 posts

37 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
RenesisEvo said:
I'll be interested to see if PH agree.
I tried an F10 M5 for the first time this weekend. If the newer one has even less character, then that's a shame.

For me, M-cars need to feel special at any speed and the F10 just didn't - it is so effortlessly fast but extremely quiet, I thought it lacked any sort of 'motorsport' vibe.

Dare I say it - but it felt like a 5-series on steroids and lacked the 'M' magic that you find in cars like the E92 etc where it rewards you for the effort you put in (not least in terms of noise).

To owners / ex-owners - are they one of those cars that take time to explore? Do you need to be going at anti-social speeds for them to wake up properly? I was genuinely gutted and am wondering whether I need to loan one for a weekend rather than a standard test drive.



Ares

7,683 posts

58 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
KPB1973 said:
RenesisEvo said:
I'll be interested to see if PH agree.
I tried an F10 M5 for the first time this weekend. If the newer one has even less character, then that's a shame.

For me, M-cars need to feel special at any speed and the F10 just didn't - it is so effortlessly fast but extremely quiet, I thought it lacked any sort of 'motorsport' vibe.

Dare I say it - but it felt like a 5-series on steroids and lacked the 'M' magic that you find in cars like the E92 etc where it rewards you for the effort you put in (not least in terms of noise).

To owners / ex-owners - are they one of those cars that take time to explore? Do you need to be going at anti-social speeds for them to wake up properly? I was genuinely gutted and am wondering whether I need to loan one for a weekend rather than a standard test drive.
I'm lucky enough to have driven the new M5. It is an improvement in drive, character, noise, pace, grip and fun. I wouldn't be so bold as to say it's the best one ever, but it is up there.

The F10 was great, it was a very fast tweaked 5-series. This is like a grown up M3 and makes something like the Panamera look heavy and agricultural (which it is far from)

TheStigsWeeBrother

166 posts

3 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
Ares said:
Niffty951 said:
...and why did they stop making manual M5's. It is a sin to take away the driving connection that separated them from fast Mercedes.
Because nobody bought them....?
How many E34 and E39 M5s did they sell in automatics?

Ares

7,683 posts

58 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
Niffty951 said:
...and why did they stop making manual M5's. It is a sin to take away the driving connection that separated them from fast Mercedes.
Because nobody bought them....?
How many E34 and E39 M5s did they sell in automatics?
rolleyes

How many Model T's were sold with an LSD?

TheStigsWeeBrother

166 posts

3 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
Ares said:
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
Niffty951 said:
...and why did they stop making manual M5's. It is a sin to take away the driving connection that separated them from fast Mercedes.
Because nobody bought them....?
How many E34 and E39 M5s did they sell in automatics?
How many Model T's were sold with an LSD?
Relevance?

Ares

7,683 posts

58 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
Niffty951 said:
...and why did they stop making manual M5's. It is a sin to take away the driving connection that separated them from fast Mercedes.
Because nobody bought them....?
How many E34 and E39 M5s did they sell in automatics?
How many Model T's were sold with an LSD?
Relevance?
Exactly.

TheStigsWeeBrother

166 posts

3 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
Ares said:
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
Niffty951 said:
...and why did they stop making manual M5's. It is a sin to take away the driving connection that separated them from fast Mercedes.
Because nobody bought them....?
How many E34 and E39 M5s did they sell in automatics?
How many Model T's were sold with an LSD?
Relevance?
Exactly.
Dis the offer the Ford Model A with LSD only?

Ares

7,683 posts

58 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
Niffty951 said:
...and why did they stop making manual M5's. It is a sin to take away the driving connection that separated them from fast Mercedes.
Because nobody bought them....?
How many E34 and E39 M5s did they sell in automatics?
How many Model T's were sold with an LSD?
Relevance?
Exactly.
Dis the offer the Ford Model A with LSD only?
They offered it in the same quantities as BMW offered the E34 or E39 with an automatic gearbox.

TheStigsWeeBrother

166 posts

3 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
Ares said:
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
Niffty951 said:
...and why did they stop making manual M5's. It is a sin to take away the driving connection that separated them from fast Mercedes.
Because nobody bought them....?
How many E34 and E39 M5s did they sell in automatics?
How many Model T's were sold with an LSD?
Relevance?
Exactly.
Dis the offer the Ford Model A with LSD only?
They offered it in the same quantities as BMW offered the E34 or E39 with an automatic gearbox.
In that case back to your original statement how did they know nobody bought them?

Ares

7,683 posts

58 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
Niffty951 said:
...and why did they stop making manual M5's. It is a sin to take away the driving connection that separated them from fast Mercedes.
Because nobody bought them....?
How many E34 and E39 M5s did they sell in automatics?
How many Model T's were sold with an LSD?
Relevance?
Exactly.
Dis the offer the Ford Model A with LSD only?
They offered it in the same quantities as BMW offered the E34 or E39 with an automatic gearbox.
In that case back to your original statement how did they know nobody bought them?
Err.... because the E34 stopped being made 20yrs ago, and the 39 stopped being made 15yrs ago. And there have been three M5s since the E39?

And because when they offered, almost no-one did. And they only stopped making Manual M5s in 2017 (which was your original question), and when both gearboxes were offered, auto outsold manual around 10:1. As it did with just about every car on sale.


TheStigsWeeBrother

166 posts

3 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
Ares said:
Err.... because the E34 stopped being made 20yrs ago, and the 39 stopped being made 15yrs ago. And there have been three M5s since the E39?

And because when they offered, almost no-one did. And they only stopped making Manual M5s in 2017 (which was your original question), and when both gearboxes were offered, auto outsold manual around 10:1. As it did with just about every car on sale.
I thought it was 2012 when the M5 went auto only and the E60 was offered in the USA with manual so are you saying worldwide it was 10/1?

Ares

7,683 posts

58 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Ares said:
Err.... because the E34 stopped being made 20yrs ago, and the 39 stopped being made 15yrs ago. And there have been three M5s since the E39?

And because when they offered, almost no-one did. And they only stopped making Manual M5s in 2017 (which was your original question), and when both gearboxes were offered, auto outsold manual around 10:1. As it did with just about every car on sale.
I thought it was 2012 when the M5 went auto only and the E60 was offered in the USA with manual so are you saying worldwide it was 10/1?
No, the F10 was available as a Manual in some markets. But it didn't sell.

Approve or not, but buyers of new performance cars, on the whole, just don't buy manuals.