Will there be a premium on the first new Griffs delivered

Will there be a premium on the first new Griffs delivered

Author
Discussion

sundance002

Original Poster:

1,304 posts

163 months

Thursday 13th December 2018
quotequote all
I Was thinking about putting a deposit down,
For the new Griffiths, not sure about how i like the new look, need to see it in the flesh to pass judgment on that, looks a little Jap influence from the pics.
But 90k is bang in the price bracket, that badly needed filling, in the supercar market,
And Godon Murrey, enough said, of how it will drive, (fantastic handling)
So me thinks a strong premium, on the first 50 cars.
Whats your views?

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Thursday 13th December 2018
quotequote all
The problem you are facing is that the new Griff is going to be the old Griff by the time it's being built

TVR4US

163 posts

103 months

Thursday 13th December 2018
quotequote all
Penelope Stopit said:
The problem you are facing is that the new Griff is going to be the old Griff by the time it's being built
You can buy my deposit off me, I have waited to long now, don’t think it will ever happen now.
I do hope it does though,

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Thursday 13th December 2018
quotequote all
TVR4US said:
Penelope Stopit said:
The problem you are facing is that the new Griff is going to be the old Griff by the time it's being built
You can buy my deposit off me, I have waited to long now, don’t think it will ever happen now.
I do hope it does though,
I feel for you, it shouldn't have come to this

sundance002

Original Poster:

1,304 posts

163 months

Friday 14th December 2018
quotequote all
I understand they have had loads of delays,
With any project like this, its not easy to get all the pieces ie engine supply's, gearbox ect ect
Manufacturerd and delivery times and costs,
Service framework. List goes on and on,
But they have built the finished car, so i do believe the first ones will roll out, some point early summer.
Doesnt this all add, to the desirability of owning the first ones, when they finaly roll out?

8nil

603 posts

211 months

Friday 14th December 2018
quotequote all
sundance002 said:
I understand they have had loads of delays,
With any project like this, its not easy to get all the pieces ie engine supply's, gearbox ect ect
Manufacturerd and delivery times and costs,
Service framework. List goes on and on,
But they have built the finished car, so i do believe the first ones will roll out, some point early summer.
Doesnt this all add, to the desirability of owning the first ones, when they finaly roll out?
Yes, and therefore I am holding out to the death.

Stever

1,524 posts

248 months

Friday 14th December 2018
quotequote all
BTW it's a TVR Griffith not Griffiths and there are just a few pages to learn about it's likely success on another thread called "New TVR still under wraps!" have a read it's most entertaining !

Jhonno

5,762 posts

140 months

Friday 14th December 2018
quotequote all
Stever said:
BTW it's a TVR Griffith not Griffiths and there are just a few pages to learn about it's likely success on another thread called "New TVR still under wraps!" have a read it's most entertaining !
I wouldn't bother reading that thread tbh..

ianwayne

6,244 posts

267 months

Friday 14th December 2018
quotequote all
The OP's first contribution to any PH thread since February leads me to think there may be a motive here regarding talking the model up. whistle

He may or may not be not aware of the very long discussions on here. There is no small volume exemption anymore for manufacturers so a production model has to be crash-tested to start with. Type approval acceptance, then there will be the real world emissions checks etc etc etc.

2020 at the earliest is my guess. Although I do still hope it occurs, it could well be a dinosaur by the time it is produced. The new 2019 Carrera S 911 for instance is faster, for £93k.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2019-p...

And supercars are going the way of being hybrids now. Except Ferrari that is...….

In the heyday of the early 1990s, friends of mine bought TVRs because they were faster than Porsche (except the 911 Turbo) and Ferrari for much less money.


Edited by ianwayne on Friday 14th December 15:14

Jhonno

5,762 posts

140 months

Friday 14th December 2018
quotequote all
ianwayne said:
The OP's first contribution to any PH thread since February leads me to think there may be a motive here regarding talking the model up. whistle

He may or may not be not aware of the very long discussions on here. There is no small volume exemption anymore for manufacturers so a production model has to be crash-tested to start with. Type approval acceptance, then there will be the real world emissions checks etc etc etc.

2020 at the earliest is my guess. Although I do still hope it occurs, it could well be a dinosaur by the time it is produced. The new 2019 Carrera S 911 for instance is faster, for £93k.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2019-p...

And supercars are going the way of being hybrids now. Except Ferrari that is...….

In the heyday of the early 1990s, friends of mine bought TVRs because they were faster than Porsche (except the 911 Turbo) and Ferrari for much less money.


Edited by ianwayne on Friday 14th December 15:14
This issue is, those cars these days use lots of fancy electronics/4WD etc.. The idea behind the new Griff is more about not having these, than being faster than those that do have all these gadgets and assists.

sundance002

Original Poster:

1,304 posts

163 months

Saturday 15th December 2018
quotequote all
ianwayne said:
The OP's first contribution to any PH thread since February leads me to think there may be a motive here regarding talking the model up. whistle

He may or may not be not aware of the very long discussions on here. There is no small volume exemption anymore for manufacturers so a production model has to be crash-tested to start with. Type approval acceptance, then there will be the real world emissions checks etc etc etc.

2020 at the earliest is my guess. Although I do still hope it occurs, it could well be a dinosaur by the time it is produced. The new 2019 Carrera S 911 for instance is faster, for £93k.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2019-p...

And supercars are going the way of being hybrids now. Except Ferrari that is...….

In the heyday of the early 1990s, friends of mine bought TVRs because they were faster than Porsche (except the 911 Turbo) and Ferrari for much less money.


Edited by ianwayne on Friday 14th December 15:14
Far from it my thinking is as i said,
If I can leave a 5k deposit, all being well, early next summer, I can sell my place in the waiting list and double my 5k.
To help pay for the upgrades on my Noble. 😊
Having owned a 5.0 Chimera for 3 years,
And a 3000s i do appreciate the Marque, and would like to see the company producing fun loud affordable british sports car again.
What car enthusiast wouldnt. Can someone please go and kick Edgar in the shins,
Maybe it will work both ways.

Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Saturday 15th December 2018
quotequote all
sundance002 said:
Far from it my thinking is as i said,
If I can leave a 5k deposit, all being well, early next summer, I can sell my place in the waiting list and double my 5k.
To help pay for the upgrades on my Noble. ??
Having owned a 5.0 Chimera for 3 years,
And a 3000s i do appreciate the Marque, and would like to see the company producing fun loud affordable british sports car again.
What car enthusiast wouldnt. Can someone please go and kick Edgar in the shins,
Maybe it will work both ways.
Can't see anything wrong with you plan, give it a go.

robsco

7,822 posts

175 months

Saturday 15th December 2018
quotequote all
sundance002 said:
If I can leave a 5k deposit, all being well, early next summer, I can sell my place in the waiting list and double my 5k.
More chance of meeting Moses.

sundance002

Original Poster:

1,304 posts

163 months

Saturday 15th December 2018
quotequote all
TVR4US said:
Penelope Stopit said:
The problem you are facing is that the new Griff is going to be the old Griff by the time it's being built
You can buy my deposit off me, I have waited to long now, don’t think it will ever happen now.
I do hope it does though,
So you believe they will go skint before the actual release???
Which means you loose the 5k,
I will buy it my offer 2k, its dead money like you suggest.

robsco

7,822 posts

175 months

Saturday 15th December 2018
quotequote all
sundance002 said:
TVR4US said:
Penelope Stopit said:
The problem you are facing is that the new Griff is going to be the old Griff by the time it's being built
You can buy my deposit off me, I have waited to long now, don’t think it will ever happen now.
I do hope it does though,
So you believe they will go skint before the actual release???
Which means you loose the 5k,
I will buy it my offer 2k, its dead money like you suggest.
He can get a full refund should he wish, why would he sell to you for 2k?

ianwayne

6,244 posts

267 months

Saturday 15th December 2018
quotequote all
Somebody listed their place in the queue for a bit over the £5k recently (£5400 I think?) on ebay. There were no takers.

bullittmcqueen

1,256 posts

90 months

Saturday 15th December 2018
quotequote all
ianwayne said:
There is no small volume exemption anymore for manufacturers so a production model has to be crash-tested to start with. Type approval acceptance, then there will be the real world emissions checks etc etc etc.

Edited by ianwayne on Friday 14th December 15:14
They are going for EC SSTA (European Small Series Type Approval) and if nothing has changed over the course of the last few months, there is not much crash-testing required (but still regulated to hell). There are also reduced requirements regarding emissions (fleet emission averages do not apply etc.). Also Cosworth is involved in engine-development (read recent PH-article + video about Cosworths work on getting the 6.5 V12 / 1000bhp for the Valkyre emissions-compliant, so these guys do have experience!)

The benefit of this is, that the car is actually approved in all of the EU by type, that means there will be no hazzle as approval has not to be repeated per car. The downside of the EC SSTA approach is, that they are limited to selling 1000 cars per type per year in all of the EU. To sell more cars, they will have to have more types or go for WVTA (Whole Vehicle Type Approval) which is what all the big car producers are doing.

They have planned, designed and engineered for this from the beginning and the planning was not done on the back of an envelope, but by experienced companies (GM Design, Cosworth), so if the business-side is not killing them, the approval-part should be doable.

https://www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/ve...

Edit:

This is the position regarding emissiosn from the European Small Volume Car Alliance, which is trying to make the interests, problems and positions of small makers heard: ( members include for example: Alpina, McLaren, Koenigsegg, Pagani, Rimac, Aston Martin )

http://www.esca-online.eu/issues/emissions/

Edited by bullittmcqueen on Saturday 15th December 19:21

swisstoni

16,850 posts

278 months

Saturday 15th December 2018
quotequote all
Good luck with your Griffins.

sundance002

Original Poster:

1,304 posts

163 months

Sunday 16th December 2018
quotequote all
bullittmcqueen said:
ianwayne said:
There is no small volume exemption anymore for manufacturers so a production model has to be crash-tested to start with. Type approval acceptance, then there will be the real world emissions checks etc etc etc.

Edited by ianwayne on Friday 14th December 15:14
They are going for EC SSTA (European Small Series Type Approval) and if nothing has changed over the course of the last few months, there is not much crash-testing required (but still regulated to hell). There are also reduced requirements regarding emissions (fleet emission averages do not apply etc.). Also Cosworth is involved in engine-development (read recent PH-article + video about Cosworths work on getting the 6.5 V12 / 1000bhp for the Valkyre emissions-compliant, so these guys do have experience!)

The benefit of this is, that the car is actually approved in all of the EU by type, that means there will be no hazzle as approval has not to be repeated per car. The downside of the EC SSTA approach is, that they are limited to selling 1000 cars per type per year in all of the EU. To sell more cars, they will have to have more types or go for WVTA (Whole Vehicle Type Approval) which is what all the big car producers are doing.

They have planned, designed and engineered for this from the beginning and the planning was not done on the back of an envelope, but by experienced companies (GM Design, Cosworth), so if the business-side is not killing them, the approval-part should be doable.

https://www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/ve...

Edit:

This is the position regarding emissiosn from the European Small Volume Car Alliance, which is trying to make the interests, problems and positions of small makers heard: ( members include for example: Alpina, McLaren, Koenigsegg, Pagani, Rimac, Aston Martin )

http://www.esca-online.eu/issues/emissions/

Edited by bullittmcqueen on Saturday 15th December 19:21
Exactly, well pointed out,
Thats why they only build small numbers, it saves millions in crash tests which uses a minimum of 4 cars.
I tbink its actually 500 cars not a thousand build limit.

bullittmcqueen

1,256 posts

90 months

Sunday 16th December 2018
quotequote all
sundance002 said:
Exactly, well pointed out,
Thats why they only build small numbers, it saves millions in crash tests which uses a minimum of 4 cars.
I tbink its actually 500 cars not a thousand build limit.
If they register a convertible as a second type, it'll take a while until they hit those limits (IF they ever make it to production). Btw, it actually is 1000, not 500:

(from link in my first post, www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk: )
...
However, if you choose this route to approval, you will be limited to the number of vehicles your can manufacture within the year. The production limit for both cars and light vans / light trucks is 1000 per type each year in the whole of the EU.
...

There was talk about crash-testing by Les, but i can't really sort that in. Maybe preparation for US admission (of which there was talk in the last update) or as preparation for WVTA ? Or they'll be doing it voluntarily ? But looks like they need to get the business-side of things sorted out first, anyway.