RE: WRC to require electrified cars from 2022

RE: WRC to require electrified cars from 2022

Monday 17th June 2019

Hybridisation formally proposed for WRC | Update!

The world's foremost rallying class will likely feature hybrid cars that can run on pure electric power from 2025



Update - 17.06.2019

The FIA is creating a new generation of World Rally Championship regulations that would introduce hybrid cars capable of running on pure electric power from 2025. The proposed rules – which, if cemented, would come into force three years after common hybrid electric units are added to cars in the next homologation cycle – are designed to allow more technical freedom for manufacturers and spice up competition.

This, as you might imagine, is intended to lure more big brands to the sport, giving them a closer technical link to models they’ll likely be selling on the road in the 2020s than the present four-cylinder machines. It’s a move FIA president Jean Todt said would have come in sooner had the sport’s current teams, which include manufacturers Citroen, Ford, Hyundai and Toyota, been more supportive. It seems the FIA is now using its leveraging power to encourage the shift.

While the cars will be capable of running on electric power alone, this will be limited to their time travelling between stages, which can often include jaunts through city centres. The focus of the electric hardware during competition will be to provide added power during timed stages, increasing overall performance and likely also reducing fuel usage – all familiar stuff these days.


It’s of little surprise that the FIA hasn’t yet suggested following in the footsteps of the World Rallycross Championship and moving to full-electric power; that has been met with a mixed reaction and even seen some manufacturers removing their support for the class. But you have to wonder if the shift to hybrid power is a first step towards the inevitable electrification of rallying. At least we’ll have the classic classes to pine over…

With FIA focussing the rest of its attention on making the WRC more competitive, it has also announced plans to introduce a control tyre from 2021 and change regulations to make it easier (and more attractive) for manufacturers to enter larger cars into the sport. Does this mean we could see saloons back in the sport like the good old days? Probably not. But it may at least encourage the reintroduction of the likes of C-segment hatchbacks.

Original story - 30.01.2019


FIA president Jean Todt is pushing for the introduction of electrified powertrains into the World Rally Championship by 2022 in order to attract more manufacturers to the sport. The Frenchman believes the world's premiere rally class needs to play a technological role in the industry like the FIA's other top categories. In fact, he reckons such a change in engine regulations should have taken place years ago.

"It is a big frustration for me not to see that rallying has engaged on at least some hybridisation and new technology," Todt told Autosport. "For me, this is completely no position; when I go in motor shows in Frankfurt, Paris, China, Japan, Geneva, I only see new technologies. It's frustrating to see in an FIA world event they don't want new technologies."


Todt claimed that up until now the WRC's teams, which include manufacturers Citroen, Ford, Hyundai and Toyota, have not been keen to integrate electrification into their rally cars - odd, given how expeditiously all of those brands are investing in EV tech for their road cars. Now, however, it seems the teams have warmed to the idea of hybrid cars, and Todt wants new regulations for 2022 to be announced by the middle of this year. FIA rally director, Yves Matton, said this gives the manufacturers "more than enough time".

Just how electrified will the FIA demand the cars be? There'd be quite a backlash from the WRC's committed fans if cars were to go full EV. Plans to do the same have already seen manufacturers drop out of the World Rallycross Championship - so a petrol-hybrid seems like the most obvious choice for WRC. Perhaps we could see an electric motor simply boosting the outputs of the turbocharged 1.6-litre four-cylinders that power today's cars. Or perhaps the regs will go further and require cars to run in electric mode between stages.

It's not hard to imagine the WRC's manufacturers supporting such a scenario from 2022, when the current engine regulation period comes to an end. And we can't imagine the fans would be too bothered either, so long as the cars remain spectacular and raucous. Of course, some may have a different opinion and see this shift to hybrid power as the first step towards the full electrification of WRC.


Author
Discussion

FiringOnThree

Original Poster:

65 posts

67 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
Sacrilege

Mannginger

9,032 posts

256 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
Fair enough, they don't have to sound terrible ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyXt5PLM1dM) and should improve the breed of hybrid engines

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
Jean Todt can believe all he likes, but the simple fact is that rally cars are a really silly thing to electrify!


1) They do lots of miles during an event, mostly on road liaisons between stages, this means they would need a relatively large battery (HEAVY/EXPENSIVE)

2) Events generally take place in the countryside, miles from any charging network

3) They mostly run in a very high downforce configuration on very soft tyres that means tons of drag, meaning range per kWhr will be poor

4) They mostly run on slippy, low speed "tracks", meaning little scope for regenerative braking and hence any meaningful energy recovery

5) Manufacturers are already terminating hybrid developments to go full EV.


There is some sense in allowing a "hang-on" rear EDU, that could be a standard part, and allow mass produced fwd cars to be more easily converted to 4wd, but the chalenge of the where to safely and reliably put the energy storage is significant.


noble12345

362 posts

215 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
The Crack Fox said:
Why? Why must they use EV technology? Are the fans demanding it? Are manufacturers asking for it? Does legislation require it? What's the fking point?!
Because white males having fun, I wont be watching that cuck beta crap thumbup

If they want to save the world and slow down the natural warming of the Earth, why dont they kill most Elephants? They destroy billions of trees leading to grassland/desert, encouraging wilderbeast/cows the biggest polluters. And obv. stop people breeding like rats!

But no, a few cars having fun.




Edited by noble12345 on Wednesday 30th January 16:51

GroundEffect

13,819 posts

155 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
Jean Todt can believe all he likes, but the simple fact is that rally cars are a really silly thing to electrify!


1) They do lots of miles during an event, mostly on road liaisons between stages, this means they would need a relatively large battery (HEAVY/EXPENSIVE)

2) Events generally take place in the countryside, miles from any charging network

3) They mostly run in a very high downforce configuration on very soft tyres that means tons of drag, meaning range per kWhr will be poor

4) They mostly run on slippy, low speed "tracks", meaning little scope for regenerative braking and hence any meaningful energy recovery

5) Manufacturers are already terminating hybrid developments to go full EV.


There is some sense in allowing a "hang-on" rear EDU, that could be a standard part, and allow mass produced fwd cars to be more easily converted to 4wd, but the chalenge of the where to safely and reliably put the energy storage is significant.
And they also get smashed to bits by mad Finnish blokes launching them at the top of trees. I'm sure that'll be just great for the integrity of the High Volt modules and battery integrity....

...which the public touch the body of pushing them back on the road.


wab172uk

2,005 posts

226 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
FFS madmad

Who the F asked for this? Why does everyone think everything has to be PC?

How to kill a sport in stupid decision.

Triumph Man

8,670 posts

167 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
da actual fuq?!

PantsFire

519 posts

79 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
Independent electric motors for each wheel providing 100% torque instantly on a rally car should be fuppin bonkers! I for one welcome our new Group E overlords biggrin

V8muscle

37 posts

118 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
The whole concept of electrifying motorsport is B###OCKS.

The fun police are having a fantastic time at the moment, with the 'political correctness gone mad' abolition of pit girls and the ever growing farce that all vehicles must be electrified. Fans don't want it, manufacturers don't want it. B###OCKS

robsprocket

109 posts

177 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
Good luck to anyone trapped in their car after a big off miles into a stage with limited fire fighting support if the lithium batteries catch fire.

JD2329

475 posts

167 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
This being the same man who beat a path for the introduction of hybrid engines into F1, only to admit later that the sport had become too expensive and complicated.
Not to mention dull and uncompetitive.
It seems that being seen to do the 'right' thing is more important than considering what the fans - who make the sport viable - actually want.

ZX10R NIN

27,495 posts

124 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
WRC is suffering for popularity right now, for me what they need are cars that actually look similar to what you see in the showroom, hell it just needs to be a better spectacle what it doesn't need is more complication.


andyj007

302 posts

177 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
jesus, what a bunch of controlling muppets.. i knwo what, why doesnt someone start a new world champion series up (unofficial from these self serving idiots) and make it combustion engines only, let the fans choose..

98elise

26,381 posts

160 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
As someone who has an EV on order, I have zero interest in EV motor sport.

Gary C

12,315 posts

178 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
Jean Todt can believe all he likes, but the simple fact is that rally cars are a really silly thing to electrify!


1) They do lots of miles during an event, mostly on road liaisons between stages, this means they would need a relatively large battery (HEAVY/EXPENSIVE)

2) Events generally take place in the countryside, miles from any charging network

3) They mostly run in a very high downforce configuration on very soft tyres that means tons of drag, meaning range per kWhr will be poor

4) They mostly run on slippy, low speed "tracks", meaning little scope for regenerative braking and hence any meaningful energy recovery

5) Manufacturers are already terminating hybrid developments to go full EV.


There is some sense in allowing a "hang-on" rear EDU, that could be a standard part, and allow mass produced fwd cars to be more easily converted to 4wd, but the chalenge of the where to safely and reliably put the energy storage is significant.
There talking hybrid so no charging network needed, Battery size doesnt need to be huge, they are frequently braking so regen will be fine, infact because they dont have the sort of braking that an F1 car needs, probably almost all of the braking could be done by regen.
Hybrid has been stated as allowed in the Gov's future EV plans so more manu's will be moving in this direction.

Davidonly

1,080 posts

192 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
Virtue signalling is killing most of our energy intensive industries - so why not extend the green death to other sectors...

Motor-sport is where Innovation (used to) happen in its purest sense and hybrids will appear if and when they offer a technical / sporting advantage. That will never happen while battery tech is floundering, which will continue to do for decades IMO.

Engineers are pragmatists so the only way to get EV into sports like this and F1 before it, as things stand, is to mandate it. Sadly doing so is just encouraging more of the same pointless behaviour elsewhere too.

I actually feel sad for the progress of humanity, at least over here in Europe right now. I really believe most of the current direction of technology and innovation, not to mention regressive use of taxpayer subsidies here, is down to libtard brainwashing perpetuated through education / uni and by 'troughing' polticos. If we are lucky we will stop being so dumb before we hand all of our wealth the China and others (who talk a good game but actually still do exactly what's needed to power their economies).

ReaperCushions

5,951 posts

183 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
ZX10R NIN said:
WRC is suffering for popularity right now, for me what they need are cars that actually look similar to what you see in the showroom, hell it just needs to be a better spectacle what it doesn't need is more complication.
I agree completely, also the manufacturers need to bring out these very limited homologation specials once again. Thats what inspired me, the fact that I could (In theory) walk into a showroom and buy one of those monsters with a few creature comforts added. Gone are the days.

rossub

4,400 posts

189 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
Davidonly said:
I actually feel sad for the progress of humanity, at least over here in Europe right now. I really believe most of the current direction of technology and innovation, not to mention regressive use of taxpayer subsidies here, is down to libtard brainwashing perpetuated through education / uni and by 'troughing' polticos. If we are lucky we will stop being so dumb before we hand all of our wealth the China and others (who talk a good game but actually still do exactly what's needed to power their economies).
Amen.

It’s very much looking like the best time to be alive was the 90s into the mid 2000s (pre Facebook for example). Healthcare excepted - that’s one area where progression has been very welcome.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
Honestly. Don't require it, allow for it.

When electric /hybrid is a better solution teams will use it.

RyanTank

2,850 posts

153 months

Wednesday 30th January 2019
quotequote all
robsprocket said:
Good luck to anyone trapped in their car after a big off miles into a stage with limited fire fighting support if the lithium batteries catch fire.
All the firefighting equipment in the cars is designed to allow the occupants to escape, simply inst sufficient to extinguish a whole car fire. But your point is valid and if they manage it in WEC/Le Mans then it should be manageable in a rally car, imagine some sort of containment cell should work.

PantsFire said:
Independent electric motors for each wheel providing 100% torque instantly on a rally car should be fuppin bonkers! I for one welcome our new Group E overlords biggrin
I like that biggrin

ZX10R NIN said:
hell it just needs to be a better spectacle
Didn't see any of the recent Monte Carlo then?

Gary C said:
There talking hybrid so no charging network needed, Battery size doesnt need to be huge, they are frequently braking so regen will be fine, infact because they dont have the sort of braking that an F1 car needs, probably almost all of the braking could be done by regen.
What he said pretty much. Did the majority of you read the Autosport article? they are exploring a hybrid system not going full battery power. I for one would welcome the introduction of electric drive. The acceleration is already sub 4s on gravel, imagine what the hybrid drive would bring that down to. Braking regen would work wonderfully too.

Its pretty much conform with having the possibility of Hybrid systems ore be forced to go full EV like rallycross. Then were just going to have a WRC series made up of super special stages rolleyes