Alfa 147 Ducati Corse
Discussion
Some of this might read a bit odd as it's copy and pasted, but you'll get the idea...
I recently bought one of these as my 'sensible' modern, so thought I'd document my exploits with it and give you a bit of review type nonsense...
As a bit of background, I've had a company car for years and have always had some chod alongside to mess about with. However, I made the decision to leave my job and go back to uni which meant all the chod had to go and I needed a sensible modern for the next couple of years. Initially, this took the form of an E39 530d Touring, which i liked very much. Unfortunately it was doing about 25mpg on my horrible new commute and had a few jobs needing doing, so employing my best man maths, the clear solution to this problem was to sell that for less than I paid for it after spending a few hundred on it for good measure and buy a dearer car that was more economical to *save money.... With me?
After the bimmer I decided I wanted something smaller and sportier but I still needed derv for economeee. I drew up a shortlist of a few motors and kept my eye on the usual sites. I was looking at Seat Leon FR+ (the ones that look like a Cupra R but have the 150PD engine), sort of looking at Golf 150PD but I had one years ago so didn't really want another. I did briefly consider a Renaultsport Megane DCI but that didn't last long (other than the obvious, I bought a Megane F1 R26 brand new and a DCI was never going to be as nice). So what did I end up with?
To give it its full title, it is an Alfa Romeo 147 JTDM 16v Q2 Ducati Corse. What that is, if you were not already aware is basically a special edition, run-out model 147 diesel that gained an extra 20bhp (taking it to 170bhp), a limited slip diff, 18" wheels, the black-with-red-stitching leather interior out of the GT coupe and fetchng go-faster stripes. They were available in black, red or white and about 250 were made, so they're quite thin on the ground.
Values for them, if you can find them, are a little all over the place. This one was advertised privately on autotrader for the least amount of money I had yet seen and looked nice enough in the pics, with a fairly average 98k miles on it, so I drove down to Hinckley in the bimmer to check it out.
And it was....ok. Clean enough, but had seen some paint, the guy seemed genuine just not really a car guy. It needed disks & pads, the tyres were all good in terms of tread but all s
tty no-names and the rear silencer was rotten. More pressing at the back of my mind was that I would be buying this at pretty much the worst possible moment - it's a 9 year old diesel, on its original clutch (which was heavy) & turbo that was due a cambelt change. So what did I do? Kindly decline and carry on the search? Did I fk! I knocked a good deal of money off and bought it anyway!
I've had it for a few months now and it hasn't been without issue. I shall type it up and give you my learned thoughts on it in a bit..
I recently bought one of these as my 'sensible' modern, so thought I'd document my exploits with it and give you a bit of review type nonsense...
As a bit of background, I've had a company car for years and have always had some chod alongside to mess about with. However, I made the decision to leave my job and go back to uni which meant all the chod had to go and I needed a sensible modern for the next couple of years. Initially, this took the form of an E39 530d Touring, which i liked very much. Unfortunately it was doing about 25mpg on my horrible new commute and had a few jobs needing doing, so employing my best man maths, the clear solution to this problem was to sell that for less than I paid for it after spending a few hundred on it for good measure and buy a dearer car that was more economical to *save money.... With me?
After the bimmer I decided I wanted something smaller and sportier but I still needed derv for economeee. I drew up a shortlist of a few motors and kept my eye on the usual sites. I was looking at Seat Leon FR+ (the ones that look like a Cupra R but have the 150PD engine), sort of looking at Golf 150PD but I had one years ago so didn't really want another. I did briefly consider a Renaultsport Megane DCI but that didn't last long (other than the obvious, I bought a Megane F1 R26 brand new and a DCI was never going to be as nice). So what did I end up with?
To give it its full title, it is an Alfa Romeo 147 JTDM 16v Q2 Ducati Corse. What that is, if you were not already aware is basically a special edition, run-out model 147 diesel that gained an extra 20bhp (taking it to 170bhp), a limited slip diff, 18" wheels, the black-with-red-stitching leather interior out of the GT coupe and fetchng go-faster stripes. They were available in black, red or white and about 250 were made, so they're quite thin on the ground.
Values for them, if you can find them, are a little all over the place. This one was advertised privately on autotrader for the least amount of money I had yet seen and looked nice enough in the pics, with a fairly average 98k miles on it, so I drove down to Hinckley in the bimmer to check it out.
And it was....ok. Clean enough, but had seen some paint, the guy seemed genuine just not really a car guy. It needed disks & pads, the tyres were all good in terms of tread but all s
tty no-names and the rear silencer was rotten. More pressing at the back of my mind was that I would be buying this at pretty much the worst possible moment - it's a 9 year old diesel, on its original clutch (which was heavy) & turbo that was due a cambelt change. So what did I do? Kindly decline and carry on the search? Did I fk! I knocked a good deal of money off and bought it anyway!I've had it for a few months now and it hasn't been without issue. I shall type it up and give you my learned thoughts on it in a bit..
First thing was to get the cambelt and waterpump sorted as there was no evidence they had ever been changed. This got farmed out to a local alfa specialist (although I suppose any garage could have done it, as it's just the 1.9 GM/Fiat/Saab engine fitted to absolutely loads of stuff). He confirmed it had been changed at some point but they hadn't used the newer metal impellor water pump and had smeared a load of sealant all over it when it just needs a gasket to seal, so it was good to get it done properly.
I decided to run it for a few weeks before spending more dollar on it and just see how it drove. I decided I did like it but the clutch was becoming worrisome. It was dead heavy and the pedal creaked. Some googling suggested they were known for a heavy clutch. Oh and creaky clutch: TADTS, which eased my mind a little. Until it developed a bit of a judder when taking up drive. This got worse over a couple of days, prompting me to think 'I really must get this checked on my day off'.
Unfortunately that never happened, as just as I was pulling into the carpark at uni, the day before my day off, it suffered total clutch failure. As I was pulling in, it got progressvely harder to engage gears, until I couldn't select a gear at all. I thought the slave had failed but no amount of pedal pumping made a difference, so I was stuck at the only entrance and exit to the carpark with about a 6" gap either side for people to get past. So about four weeks after purchase it assumed the natural alfa position and travelled home on the back of a truck (well, after being bullstted by the RAC on an hourly basis as to an arrival time for a total of 4 hours it did).
This was not good. It has a DMF to further add to the misery. I knew this was not going to be cheap. I'd asked my Alfa guy for a quote when I had the cambelt done and he quoted £1000 for clutch & DMF. Whilst I was sat waiting, I rang my usual garage for a quote who came back with £900 so I had it taken to them. Actually, I didn't have it taken to them...because the RAC took 4 fking hours to arrive, everywhere was shut so I had to have it taken home and tow it there myself the next day with my old man (rant over).
My joy was further bolstered on arrival when matey from the garage comes over looking a bit sheepish..."Errr, that price I gave you yesterday....well I didn't realise it was the 170bhp version. They use a different clutch to the 150bhp and there isn't an aftermarket part, so I'm gonna have to order it from Alfa Romeo and it's dearer. And they don't have it in and it'll take 2 days to get here" WINNING!!
So my £100 saving ended up costing £80 more.
However, when I got it back, the car was so much better to drive. Clutch is light as a feather and no juddering and general awfulness. Still stung though.
That was about 3 weeks ago. I've just taken it on a 1000 mile round trip to the Isle of Skye for new year so I'll write up how that went next.
I decided to run it for a few weeks before spending more dollar on it and just see how it drove. I decided I did like it but the clutch was becoming worrisome. It was dead heavy and the pedal creaked. Some googling suggested they were known for a heavy clutch. Oh and creaky clutch: TADTS, which eased my mind a little. Until it developed a bit of a judder when taking up drive. This got worse over a couple of days, prompting me to think 'I really must get this checked on my day off'.
Unfortunately that never happened, as just as I was pulling into the carpark at uni, the day before my day off, it suffered total clutch failure. As I was pulling in, it got progressvely harder to engage gears, until I couldn't select a gear at all. I thought the slave had failed but no amount of pedal pumping made a difference, so I was stuck at the only entrance and exit to the carpark with about a 6" gap either side for people to get past. So about four weeks after purchase it assumed the natural alfa position and travelled home on the back of a truck (well, after being bulls
tted by the RAC on an hourly basis as to an arrival time for a total of 4 hours it did).This was not good. It has a DMF to further add to the misery. I knew this was not going to be cheap. I'd asked my Alfa guy for a quote when I had the cambelt done and he quoted £1000 for clutch & DMF. Whilst I was sat waiting, I rang my usual garage for a quote who came back with £900 so I had it taken to them. Actually, I didn't have it taken to them...because the RAC took 4 f
king hours to arrive, everywhere was shut so I had to have it taken home and tow it there myself the next day with my old man (rant over).My joy was further bolstered on arrival when matey from the garage comes over looking a bit sheepish..."Errr, that price I gave you yesterday....well I didn't realise it was the 170bhp version. They use a different clutch to the 150bhp and there isn't an aftermarket part, so I'm gonna have to order it from Alfa Romeo and it's dearer. And they don't have it in and it'll take 2 days to get here" WINNING!!
So my £100 saving ended up costing £80 more.
However, when I got it back, the car was so much better to drive. Clutch is light as a feather and no juddering and general awfulness. Still stung though.
That was about 3 weeks ago. I've just taken it on a 1000 mile round trip to the Isle of Skye for new year so I'll write up how that went next.
So as I said, we booked a last minute trip to the Isle of Skye. If nothing else I'd hoped I'd get to bond with the car a bit more as it was at least an 850 mile round trip! This prompted me to tackle a couple of jobs before setting off.
A common problem with these is a 'sticky' gearshift where the gearstick won't return itself to neutral which this one was suffering from and made 3rd a bit hard to select until you got used to driving around the problem. I looked it up on the forums and it didn't seem like too difficult a job - battery out, battery tray out to give access to the top of the gearbox. That gives you access to this linkage setup
You remove the nut, remove the linkage from the back of the bolt, then knock the long exposed bolt out, replace the bushes and lubricate it all
I'd already bought the bushes off ebay (turned out one wasn't actually fitted) and used loads of red rubber grease, which got my gearstick action all lovely smooth and springy again.
The next job was that the windscreen washer motor was only working in reverse, so you pull the stalk towards you and nothing happens (meant to spray the windscreen), push it away and and it sprays the windscreen (meant to spray the rear windscreen). You can get access to the motor by unbolting the expansion tank and moving it out the way. This revealed that the one fitted isn't an original part, but my replacement part was also incorrect as it only has one outlet. Re-ordered the correct part and will try again.
Next, front brakes. I knew they were bad, but on closer inspection there was no way I was putting another 800+ miles on them, they were hanging! I'd already bought some Brembo disks & pads when ECP had a 50% off code so I set about stripping them down. The discs were that worn that I was able to remove them without removing the caliper carrier!
The pad material was breaking down as well. How do I always end up buying cars with brakes like this? Anyway, the bd fought me every step of the way. The disc retaining screws were seized (managed to get one off, snapped the other) and the caliper carrier bolts were mega mega seized. They broke my 1/2" 19mm socket. I thought it was game over but rememebered I had some impact sockets and the combination of those, a hammer, lots of plusgas and the biggest breaker bar I had shifted them. I really need a rattle gun for things like this as I'm always scared of shearing bolts. In terms of working on, it reminds me of the Fiat Stilo we had a few years ago (unsurprising as it's probably the same car), in that for its age, everything that *might be seized, *will be seized, more so than others of the same age. Just feels a bit built down to a price.
I'll tidy those calipers up one day, they must be losing me 10bhp.
So with all that done, Skye happened! Have some pics of CAR in SKYE
I'm happy to say 1000 miles completed without incident. So what's it like then?...
Well it's a bit of mixed bag. You may note from the pics that it's an 09 plate which is pretty much the very latest 147 you will find (I think there's a handful of 10 plates around). I mention this as it's worth remembering that the car was launched in 2000, so by rights it really should have been pensioned off at this point and it was a generation behind pretty much everything else. As a result. it doesn't feel like a 2009 car - there is no stop start, no touchscreen, no auto light/wipers, no elec handbrake etc etc. To most on here that's probably a bonus but it does feel odd when you see the plate.
It does feel nippy but if I'm honest, I expected a bit more shove saying it has 170bhp. I seem to rememebr my 150bhp golf feeling a bit quicker, although it does seem to have a better poweband than most diesels and relatively willing to rev so it may just be that it delivers it differently. They apparently remap to around 210-220bhp which should wake it up a bit. This model also has a 'sport' button which alters the throttle response, although like most of these features I've tried on other cars, I can barely tell the difference.
It handles very well. Lovely direct steering but it's a bit too firmly sprung. The trip highlighted this, as poor surfaces on a B road upset it quite easily and it gets very crashy. The wheels really don't help in that respect. They look nice (or would do if they were a bit tidier) and are specific to this model, but they make the car drive like it has oversize aftermarket wheels fitted. It reminds me of when I fitted 17" wheels to my Corolla GT when I was 18 - a car that came with 14" as standard. The tyres are 40 profile and I think it would drive better with 17" wheels and 45 profile tyres.
The there's the diff. Now there's no getting around that it does dominate the driving experience. I knew what I was getting into there as I've has LSD equipped cars before, but I can see how people really can dislike how they drive. The diff makes such a positive contribution to traction and handling feel (plant the throttle in the middle of a bend and it's crazy to feel how it literally drags the car further in to the line) that it sort of makes you put up with the side effects. Those being strange steering feel sometimes in normal driving; sometimes the wheel just feels dead then very suddenly wakes up and follows any ruts in the road to the degree that it can almost make you change lanes if you're not concentrating. It's quite tiring if you're not used to it.
Then there's the build quality. It's not that it's particularly bad, it just doesn't feel like a quality product. The stalks all feel a bit horrible to use. It squeaks and rattles. The driver's seat rocks about a bit - need to look into this, it's pissing me off. It has climate control but it's one of those crap systems that really were meant to just be manual aircon and and upgrade has been shoe-horned in so is completely unintuitive to use. But what did I expect??
On the plus side, I find it comfy and can sit in it and get a good driving position. I drove it for 8 hours and wasn't aching at the end. The seats are supportive and it delivered 48mpg on the run and I wasn't hanging about.
Next on the list...the inlet manifold is fitted with swirl flaps that like to break off and get ingested. There's conflicting advice on whether to just bin them or replace the manifold then map out the EGR valve to stop them getting clogged up again. Removing the manifold is also a right war - it's buried and the fuel pump has to come off. Not sure if I'm confident enough to have a go. In any case, it's probably planning to hoover them up next time I turn it on whlst I sit here planning to do something about them...it has form for that!
Here it is after 1000 miles. Needs a wash!
I meant to mention - the turning circle on it is like a frigging oil tanker and yes, visibility out the back is ste
Reading that back, I sound like I'm proper slagging it, believe it or not, I do really like it. It's a lovely drive but as an overall package it's a bit flawed.
It'd be boring if it was perfect!
A common problem with these is a 'sticky' gearshift where the gearstick won't return itself to neutral which this one was suffering from and made 3rd a bit hard to select until you got used to driving around the problem. I looked it up on the forums and it didn't seem like too difficult a job - battery out, battery tray out to give access to the top of the gearbox. That gives you access to this linkage setup
You remove the nut, remove the linkage from the back of the bolt, then knock the long exposed bolt out, replace the bushes and lubricate it all
I'd already bought the bushes off ebay (turned out one wasn't actually fitted) and used loads of red rubber grease, which got my gearstick action all lovely smooth and springy again.
The next job was that the windscreen washer motor was only working in reverse, so you pull the stalk towards you and nothing happens (meant to spray the windscreen), push it away and and it sprays the windscreen (meant to spray the rear windscreen). You can get access to the motor by unbolting the expansion tank and moving it out the way. This revealed that the one fitted isn't an original part, but my replacement part was also incorrect as it only has one outlet. Re-ordered the correct part and will try again.
Next, front brakes. I knew they were bad, but on closer inspection there was no way I was putting another 800+ miles on them, they were hanging! I'd already bought some Brembo disks & pads when ECP had a 50% off code so I set about stripping them down. The discs were that worn that I was able to remove them without removing the caliper carrier!
The pad material was breaking down as well. How do I always end up buying cars with brakes like this? Anyway, the b
d fought me every step of the way. The disc retaining screws were seized (managed to get one off, snapped the other) and the caliper carrier bolts were mega mega seized. They broke my 1/2" 19mm socket. I thought it was game over but rememebered I had some impact sockets and the combination of those, a hammer, lots of plusgas and the biggest breaker bar I had shifted them. I really need a rattle gun for things like this as I'm always scared of shearing bolts. In terms of working on, it reminds me of the Fiat Stilo we had a few years ago (unsurprising as it's probably the same car), in that for its age, everything that *might be seized, *will be seized, more so than others of the same age. Just feels a bit built down to a price.I'll tidy those calipers up one day, they must be losing me 10bhp.
So with all that done, Skye happened! Have some pics of CAR in SKYE
I'm happy to say 1000 miles completed without incident. So what's it like then?...
Well it's a bit of mixed bag. You may note from the pics that it's an 09 plate which is pretty much the very latest 147 you will find (I think there's a handful of 10 plates around). I mention this as it's worth remembering that the car was launched in 2000, so by rights it really should have been pensioned off at this point and it was a generation behind pretty much everything else. As a result. it doesn't feel like a 2009 car - there is no stop start, no touchscreen, no auto light/wipers, no elec handbrake etc etc. To most on here that's probably a bonus but it does feel odd when you see the plate.
It does feel nippy but if I'm honest, I expected a bit more shove saying it has 170bhp. I seem to rememebr my 150bhp golf feeling a bit quicker, although it does seem to have a better poweband than most diesels and relatively willing to rev so it may just be that it delivers it differently. They apparently remap to around 210-220bhp which should wake it up a bit. This model also has a 'sport' button which alters the throttle response, although like most of these features I've tried on other cars, I can barely tell the difference.
It handles very well. Lovely direct steering but it's a bit too firmly sprung. The trip highlighted this, as poor surfaces on a B road upset it quite easily and it gets very crashy. The wheels really don't help in that respect. They look nice (or would do if they were a bit tidier) and are specific to this model, but they make the car drive like it has oversize aftermarket wheels fitted. It reminds me of when I fitted 17" wheels to my Corolla GT when I was 18 - a car that came with 14" as standard. The tyres are 40 profile and I think it would drive better with 17" wheels and 45 profile tyres.
The there's the diff. Now there's no getting around that it does dominate the driving experience. I knew what I was getting into there as I've has LSD equipped cars before, but I can see how people really can dislike how they drive. The diff makes such a positive contribution to traction and handling feel (plant the throttle in the middle of a bend and it's crazy to feel how it literally drags the car further in to the line) that it sort of makes you put up with the side effects. Those being strange steering feel sometimes in normal driving; sometimes the wheel just feels dead then very suddenly wakes up and follows any ruts in the road to the degree that it can almost make you change lanes if you're not concentrating. It's quite tiring if you're not used to it.
Then there's the build quality. It's not that it's particularly bad, it just doesn't feel like a quality product. The stalks all feel a bit horrible to use. It squeaks and rattles. The driver's seat rocks about a bit - need to look into this, it's pissing me off. It has climate control but it's one of those crap systems that really were meant to just be manual aircon and and upgrade has been shoe-horned in so is completely unintuitive to use. But what did I expect??
On the plus side, I find it comfy and can sit in it and get a good driving position. I drove it for 8 hours and wasn't aching at the end. The seats are supportive and it delivered 48mpg on the run and I wasn't hanging about.
Next on the list...the inlet manifold is fitted with swirl flaps that like to break off and get ingested. There's conflicting advice on whether to just bin them or replace the manifold then map out the EGR valve to stop them getting clogged up again. Removing the manifold is also a right war - it's buried and the fuel pump has to come off. Not sure if I'm confident enough to have a go. In any case, it's probably planning to hoover them up next time I turn it on whlst I sit here planning to do something about them...it has form for that!
Here it is after 1000 miles. Needs a wash!
I meant to mention - the turning circle on it is like a frigging oil tanker and yes, visibility out the back is s
teReading that back, I sound like I'm proper slagging it, believe it or not, I do really like it. It's a lovely drive but as an overall package it's a bit flawed.
It'd be boring if it was perfect!
Collected these from flippin Watford(!) yesterday, got them on this morning. They were fitted to 147/156GTAs so they're a straight swap. An inch smaller, so 17s but half an inch wider with a lower offset, so they end up pushed out right to the edge of the wheelarch. And crucially they actually have some sidewall. The tyres also happen to be Michelin Pilot Sports, so very happy to finally put some decent boots on it.
Rides better, drives better. I always underestimate just how much difference decent tyres make to the whole drive. Very happy with them. I'll keep hold of the originals, throw them back on when I sell the car and sell these seperately as they tend to fetch good money.
As you can see, you really couldn't go any wider and stay within the arch
Rides better, drives better. I always underestimate just how much difference decent tyres make to the whole drive. Very happy with them. I'll keep hold of the originals, throw them back on when I sell the car and sell these seperately as they tend to fetch good money.
As you can see, you really couldn't go any wider and stay within the arch
This thanked me for its new wheels today by snapping the hinge on the driver's door handle. Ungrateful st. Replacement means door card off and a swear fest. CANNOT WAIT
Suppose I'd best try and fix this then. The top hinge on them seizes (as they are very disgruntled to be here rather than in Italy) and the hinge snaps. The hinge from a Fiat 500 fits and saves you having to replace the whole handle. Obviously this means removing the door card which is one of my least favourite jobs on any car and always seems to result in broken clips and misery.
Well I got the door card off without breaking any clips (although not everything survived unscathed) but that revealed that this isn't its first rodeo and someone's been in here before. Anyway, replacing the hinge wasn't too bad. You don't have to completely remove the handle, if you leave it connected at the striker end you've just enough room to undo the hinge screw with a screwdriver bit held with some mole grips.
Remember I said not everything survived unscathed? Well to remove the door card you have to unclip and remove the electric window & mirror controls from the door. This sounds lovely and simple and I'm sure to many it would be, however I managed to pull the whole unit out so hard that it fking exploded to its component parts.
That included spilling loads of tiny, stick like plastic pieces into the door. I fished out what I could and hoped I'd be able to cobble it back together when I'd fixed the hinge.
After messing about with it for a bit, I came to realise that these plastic bits were the plungers that operates the pad when a switch is pushed - the little grey circles are all these plungers. There were also some really tiny white ones that operate the electric window switches (you can see one on the table to the right). Well of course I managed to lose one of those. I certainly wasn't going to buy a new one for want of one of these piddly little fkers so had a look for some alternatives. I tried the inside of a biro cut down but it was too wide. A cocktail stick would have been about perfect but we had none. So I sat there like a complete bellend, whittling down a matchstick with a knife wondering what I was doing with my life. Anyway, it worked! Threw it all back together and had a fully operative door handle again along with a switch bank containing a bit of matchstick.
Treated it to a wash after because as you may be able to see, I live down the equivalent of a farm track which is a massive pain in the arse in winter.
Stay tuned to find out what falls off next!
t. Replacement means door card off and a swear fest. CANNOT WAITSuppose I'd best try and fix this then. The top hinge on them seizes (as they are very disgruntled to be here rather than in Italy) and the hinge snaps. The hinge from a Fiat 500 fits and saves you having to replace the whole handle. Obviously this means removing the door card which is one of my least favourite jobs on any car and always seems to result in broken clips and misery.
Well I got the door card off without breaking any clips (although not everything survived unscathed) but that revealed that this isn't its first rodeo and someone's been in here before. Anyway, replacing the hinge wasn't too bad. You don't have to completely remove the handle, if you leave it connected at the striker end you've just enough room to undo the hinge screw with a screwdriver bit held with some mole grips.
Remember I said not everything survived unscathed? Well to remove the door card you have to unclip and remove the electric window & mirror controls from the door. This sounds lovely and simple and I'm sure to many it would be, however I managed to pull the whole unit out so hard that it f
king exploded to its component parts.That included spilling loads of tiny, stick like plastic pieces into the door. I fished out what I could and hoped I'd be able to cobble it back together when I'd fixed the hinge.
After messing about with it for a bit, I came to realise that these plastic bits were the plungers that operates the pad when a switch is pushed - the little grey circles are all these plungers. There were also some really tiny white ones that operate the electric window switches (you can see one on the table to the right). Well of course I managed to lose one of those. I certainly wasn't going to buy a new one for want of one of these piddly little f
kers so had a look for some alternatives. I tried the inside of a biro cut down but it was too wide. A cocktail stick would have been about perfect but we had none. So I sat there like a complete bellend, whittling down a matchstick with a knife wondering what I was doing with my life. Anyway, it worked! Threw it all back together and had a fully operative door handle again along with a switch bank containing a bit of matchstick.Treated it to a wash after because as you may be able to see, I live down the equivalent of a farm track which is a massive pain in the arse in winter.
Stay tuned to find out what falls off next!
Another clutch issue now. The pedal feel has been a bit odd the past 10 days or so: it was toughening up when stuck in traffic for a while or at low speed then would noticeably lighten again after giving it some beans or a higher speed run.
I drove up to the Lakes yesterday to meet some friends and towards the end of the trip the pedal lost resistance for the top half of the travel and the bite point was on the floor. When I got in it to drive home this morning, it was worse and now difficult to select a gear, so I nursed it to the motorway where obviously it could be left in 6th.
By the time I’d got home the pedal had come back a bit but it’s still not right. I’m thinking slave cylinder or master cylinder and googling suggests the fking engine mounts need undoing to create enough clearance to change the master cylinder.
This is meant to be my *reliable modern
Did the slave first which wasn't too bad, removing the battery tray gives good access
The cylinder is held into that bracket with a big circlip. This took about half and hour of wrangling to remove as it was rusted on. Then came the fun of trying to get the cylinder out of the bracket. It was well seized in there. I decided to take the whole lot off the car which meant cutting down a 6mm allen key to access the top bolt of the bracket with the cylinder in place. To cut a long story short, even after smacking it with a lump hammer and ruining the cylinder, it would not move so I ended up having to order a new bracket from Alfaworkshop, I think the fact that they carry them in stock tells its own story. So that added a day to the proceedings.
Then came the master cylinder. T'internets was suggesting undoing engine mounts and tipping it forward but I wasn't pissing about with that so just undid the fuel filter assembly which created just about enough room to access the bulkhead. When I had a look inside the car, the inlet pipe connection to the cylinder is in the footwell but there was nowhere near enough room to undo the crimp connector and no wiggle room at all on the rubber pipe. Looking at the engine side, the rubber pipe fitted on to a hard line along the bulkhead so I decided to undo it here and pull the whole lot through the bulkhead. This was a right faff as it wouldn't come off and there was no room to get a proper grip so I had to just cut it off. This meant ordering some pipe so I could attach it to the cylinder off the car, then feed the pipe through the grommet in the bulkhead from the inside (no pics as you couldn't really see much!). Much swearing happened but I got there in the end. The master cylinder was clearly the offending article once it was off the car, offering no resistance along half of its travel.
Tried to bleed it up with a pressure bleed kit but every time I use this, it seems to not seal properly and just piss fluid everywhere so I gave up with that and did it the old fashioned way. The fluid was black as expected so seals have been breaking down.
Whilst in the area I also noticed that the breather pipe wiggling across the middle of the shot is split at both ends and making a mess so I guess that's on the list next.
Oh and the passenger sun visor now will not stay up as someone had the temerity to use it last weekend. Sigh.
I drove up to the Lakes yesterday to meet some friends and towards the end of the trip the pedal lost resistance for the top half of the travel and the bite point was on the floor. When I got in it to drive home this morning, it was worse and now difficult to select a gear, so I nursed it to the motorway where obviously it could be left in 6th.
By the time I’d got home the pedal had come back a bit but it’s still not right. I’m thinking slave cylinder or master cylinder and googling suggests the f
king engine mounts need undoing to create enough clearance to change the master cylinder.This is meant to be my *reliable modern
- **********************************************************************************
Did the slave first which wasn't too bad, removing the battery tray gives good access
The cylinder is held into that bracket with a big circlip. This took about half and hour of wrangling to remove as it was rusted on. Then came the fun of trying to get the cylinder out of the bracket. It was well seized in there. I decided to take the whole lot off the car which meant cutting down a 6mm allen key to access the top bolt of the bracket with the cylinder in place. To cut a long story short, even after smacking it with a lump hammer and ruining the cylinder, it would not move so I ended up having to order a new bracket from Alfaworkshop, I think the fact that they carry them in stock tells its own story. So that added a day to the proceedings.
Then came the master cylinder. T'internets was suggesting undoing engine mounts and tipping it forward but I wasn't pissing about with that so just undid the fuel filter assembly which created just about enough room to access the bulkhead. When I had a look inside the car, the inlet pipe connection to the cylinder is in the footwell but there was nowhere near enough room to undo the crimp connector and no wiggle room at all on the rubber pipe. Looking at the engine side, the rubber pipe fitted on to a hard line along the bulkhead so I decided to undo it here and pull the whole lot through the bulkhead. This was a right faff as it wouldn't come off and there was no room to get a proper grip so I had to just cut it off. This meant ordering some pipe so I could attach it to the cylinder off the car, then feed the pipe through the grommet in the bulkhead from the inside (no pics as you couldn't really see much!). Much swearing happened but I got there in the end. The master cylinder was clearly the offending article once it was off the car, offering no resistance along half of its travel.
Tried to bleed it up with a pressure bleed kit but every time I use this, it seems to not seal properly and just piss fluid everywhere so I gave up with that and did it the old fashioned way. The fluid was black as expected so seals have been breaking down.
Whilst in the area I also noticed that the breather pipe wiggling across the middle of the shot is split at both ends and making a mess so I guess that's on the list next.
Oh and the passenger sun visor now will not stay up as someone had the temerity to use it last weekend. Sigh.
Love it, you can feel the pain in your writing 
You're too involved now to sell it on. Better the devil you know and all that jazz!
I have a real soft spot for these, unfortunately they have many of their own soft spots, particularly suspension bushes. I recall an ex colleagues needing new drop links, a wishbone on one side and then weeks later a driveshaft started knocking.
I'm sure yours will be fine though...!
You're too involved now to sell it on. Better the devil you know and all that jazz!
I have a real soft spot for these, unfortunately they have many of their own soft spots, particularly suspension bushes. I recall an ex colleagues needing new drop links, a wishbone on one side and then weeks later a driveshaft started knocking.
I'm sure yours will be fine though...!
I had a 147 for 4 years. It wasn't as nice as yours being the 1.6 Twin spark but it was another Limited Edition (pretty much all 147's made near the end seem to have been a limited edition of some kind!)
It's a car you can enjoy owning, despite the many niggles - for most of the time that I had mine the suspension was making some kind of squeaking noise that never stayed sorted for long.
Nothing cost too much to sort out though and it was a pretty cheap car for me to run overall
The door handles are a real pain, both of mine went in the same year. Once I realised they were a weak point I was always worried that a passenger would take the handle off that door again - I learned to open mine by pushing down at the front whilst lifting the handle at the back to avoid breaking them again
Either way I enjoyed the 60k miles I put on mine in 4 years and I think I'll be back in another Alfa one day. Enjoy yours
It's a car you can enjoy owning, despite the many niggles - for most of the time that I had mine the suspension was making some kind of squeaking noise that never stayed sorted for long.
Nothing cost too much to sort out though and it was a pretty cheap car for me to run overall
The door handles are a real pain, both of mine went in the same year. Once I realised they were a weak point I was always worried that a passenger would take the handle off that door again - I learned to open mine by pushing down at the front whilst lifting the handle at the back to avoid breaking them again
Either way I enjoyed the 60k miles I put on mine in 4 years and I think I'll be back in another Alfa one day. Enjoy yours
Lovely example there!
We had a pre-facelift 1.9 JTD 147 for around 2 years. For the fact it cost me £700 and the Mrs put at least 20k on it in that time, it was brilliant, drove from Essex to Edinburgh several times with no issue.
The top turbo pipe went, a LOT of black smoke but fairly easy and cheap to fix. I fitted cruise control to it for about £25 since all it needed was a stalk, was rather chuffed with that (made the Essex to Edinburgh trip a lot more comfortable).
Main niggle was the right rear brake light, the bulb would go every few months. For a £700 car, I wasn't going to chase electrical gremlins so dealt with it.
We changed it for a brand new Focus as Ford gave us £3k in scrappage, which I couldn't really pass up. But, because it wasn't the Government scheme, it didn't get scrapped, I saw it on the road a few months later.
We had a pre-facelift 1.9 JTD 147 for around 2 years. For the fact it cost me £700 and the Mrs put at least 20k on it in that time, it was brilliant, drove from Essex to Edinburgh several times with no issue.
The top turbo pipe went, a LOT of black smoke but fairly easy and cheap to fix. I fitted cruise control to it for about £25 since all it needed was a stalk, was rather chuffed with that (made the Essex to Edinburgh trip a lot more comfortable).
Main niggle was the right rear brake light, the bulb would go every few months. For a £700 car, I wasn't going to chase electrical gremlins so dealt with it.
We changed it for a brand new Focus as Ford gave us £3k in scrappage, which I couldn't really pass up. But, because it wasn't the Government scheme, it didn't get scrapped, I saw it on the road a few months later.
Lovely looking car I have to say.
Just thought I'd mention, there seems to be a running trend in the thread that a lot of the issues appear to be the fault of the car when in reality the OP bought the cheapest example of that model and had to some jobs to it that would be expected at that mileage!
Any other diesel being 10 years old would need a cambelt and clutch doing on it - not just because its an Alfa!
Admittedly the slave/master cylinder and door handle probably shouldn't be going at that miles - so fair enough.
Am I the only person who sees it as a stylish, comfortable economical hatchback for small money and as such some issues should be expected?!
Just thought I'd mention, there seems to be a running trend in the thread that a lot of the issues appear to be the fault of the car when in reality the OP bought the cheapest example of that model and had to some jobs to it that would be expected at that mileage!
Any other diesel being 10 years old would need a cambelt and clutch doing on it - not just because its an Alfa!
Admittedly the slave/master cylinder and door handle probably shouldn't be going at that miles - so fair enough.
Am I the only person who sees it as a stylish, comfortable economical hatchback for small money and as such some issues should be expected?!
Ha, I went into this thread with more than a little trepidation for you. Love these cars, if I wasn't the tall side of 6'3" I would probably have bought one at some point.
I owned a Stilo 'Abarth' a few years ago and know what you mean about the 'built to a budget' feeling. Mine just would not stop breaking, the suspension was not up to lugging around the 2.4L lump so it broke springs like no-ones business. They would replace them with OEM springs under warranty so I went through three front springs in about as many months. Not to mention the coil packs which would take a st with some regularity, and the keyless fob that discharged itself every few months. And the parking sensors that never worked. And the touchscreen sat nav which slid out of the dashboard under hard acceleration...
Case in point - better a modern car without the modcons when it's Italian, since they never work anyway. That car was a 2003 and a complete lemon.
Related note, I owned a 2007 Bravo Sport afterwards (hadn't quite learnt my lesson with Fiats you see) and the Sport Button also weighted the steering a bit heavier as well as the negligible throttle response change - don't know if that might be a shared component.
I owned a Stilo 'Abarth' a few years ago and know what you mean about the 'built to a budget' feeling. Mine just would not stop breaking, the suspension was not up to lugging around the 2.4L lump so it broke springs like no-ones business. They would replace them with OEM springs under warranty so I went through three front springs in about as many months. Not to mention the coil packs which would take a s
t with some regularity, and the keyless fob that discharged itself every few months. And the parking sensors that never worked. And the touchscreen sat nav which slid out of the dashboard under hard acceleration...Case in point - better a modern car without the modcons when it's Italian, since they never work anyway. That car was a 2003 and a complete lemon.
Related note, I owned a 2007 Bravo Sport afterwards (hadn't quite learnt my lesson with Fiats you see) and the Sport Button also weighted the steering a bit heavier as well as the negligible throttle response change - don't know if that might be a shared component.
Thanks for the comments, despite its foibles, I've no plans on selling it, or certainly not yet. It's gotten under my skin a bit! Some of the issues are just regular maintenance, it's the niggly bits that aren't that are frustrating. I'm slowly working my way through though...
When I left the clutch arm last time, I poured a load of 3in1 oil over the top of the splines in the hope it would relesase it over time. It didn't. This is what I was on at
I thought I'd try applying heat but I've no blow torch so had to make do with a hot air gun set on high. I used one of the attachments to shield the hose running near it and got it smoking. Still wouldn't budge. I let it cool a little, gave it some more plusgas and tried again for longer. Still no. Tried a 3rd time, still didn't work at which point I became concerend I was going to damage something so I put a load of plusgas and 3in1 down the splines again and came inside and sought further suggestions on how to proceed and made some dinner. By the time I went back out to it, it had cooled down and the oil must have done its stuff because it actually moved a tiny amount. Lots of wiggling and lots of oil later...
Success! After that was off, the plastic bush needed removing to allow a small amount of oil down the shaft to lubricate the bottom bush. I'd already anticipated that this would be brittle and a little tt to remove so I ordered a new one (£16 for a plastic bush!). I did end up snapping a little bit off the old one so I'm pleased I did.
I put about 2 teaspoons of oil down the shaft, fitted the new bush (lubricated it with red rubber grease) and put it all back together. I haven't driven it far enough yet to know if this has finally sorted the clutch action, Monday morning will reveal, but the pedal is certainly softer and smoother, I just hope it stays that way all the time now.
I hadn't washed it for about 6 weeks so gave it a good clean today. Look at the state of these..
Looking at it, I think the bumper needs to come off to access those and I can't see it or them coming off without a fight. I think it's wise to pick my battles with this car! They do look proper ropey though!
- ****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
When I left the clutch arm last time, I poured a load of 3in1 oil over the top of the splines in the hope it would relesase it over time. It didn't. This is what I was on at
I thought I'd try applying heat but I've no blow torch so had to make do with a hot air gun set on high. I used one of the attachments to shield the hose running near it and got it smoking. Still wouldn't budge. I let it cool a little, gave it some more plusgas and tried again for longer. Still no. Tried a 3rd time, still didn't work at which point I became concerend I was going to damage something so I put a load of plusgas and 3in1 down the splines again and came inside and sought further suggestions on how to proceed and made some dinner. By the time I went back out to it, it had cooled down and the oil must have done its stuff because it actually moved a tiny amount. Lots of wiggling and lots of oil later...
Success! After that was off, the plastic bush needed removing to allow a small amount of oil down the shaft to lubricate the bottom bush. I'd already anticipated that this would be brittle and a little t
t to remove so I ordered a new one (£16 for a plastic bush!). I did end up snapping a little bit off the old one so I'm pleased I did.I put about 2 teaspoons of oil down the shaft, fitted the new bush (lubricated it with red rubber grease) and put it all back together. I haven't driven it far enough yet to know if this has finally sorted the clutch action, Monday morning will reveal, but the pedal is certainly softer and smoother, I just hope it stays that way all the time now.
I hadn't washed it for about 6 weeks so gave it a good clean today. Look at the state of these..
Looking at it, I think the bumper needs to come off to access those and I can't see it or them coming off without a fight. I think it's wise to pick my battles with this car! They do look proper ropey though!
And that more or less brings me up to date starting from last October. Touch wood, the clutch issue finally seems sorted! As you can tell, it had been a bit neglected in the last couple of years so I want to continue getting it to a state where I'm happy with it, then maybe look at upgrades.
I noticed the other day that one of the rear calipers is sticking and the handbrake isn't great so I've just ordered two new. I'm a bit sceptical as they were mega cheap off ebay, so we'll see what they're like! I may as well do discs and pads at the same time. Looking at it, it seems that one of the suspension arms will need moving out the way to clear the bottom caliper carrier bolt (cheers Alfa!) so I'm thinking about buying a 240v rattle gun as I don't fancy tackling the bolt holding the arm on without one!
I want to sort the inlet manifold. They have internal swirl flaps which when old, get clogged, don't close properly, get weak and fall off causing havoc. There's a few options - buy a blanking kit for about £40, remove existing manifold, blank it myself and refit (risks boost leaks), buy a used one already blanked from Autolusso for about £120 and fit that or buy a brand new one for about £350 keeping the swirl flaps and map out the EGR so they don't get clogged. Not quite sure which way to go, my Alfa guy says not to remove them but loads seem to have done it.
Once that's done I might look at a remap and get some bits of paintwork done. I'd like to give it to the dentman as well and let him do his stuff. It's one of those cars that shows dents really badly and it's picked up a few in its 10 years! I had him go over a Civic Type R I had about 10 years ago (also bought cheap and neglected...I don't learn!) and couldn't belive how good the results were.
I noticed the other day that one of the rear calipers is sticking and the handbrake isn't great so I've just ordered two new. I'm a bit sceptical as they were mega cheap off ebay, so we'll see what they're like! I may as well do discs and pads at the same time. Looking at it, it seems that one of the suspension arms will need moving out the way to clear the bottom caliper carrier bolt (cheers Alfa!) so I'm thinking about buying a 240v rattle gun as I don't fancy tackling the bolt holding the arm on without one!
I want to sort the inlet manifold. They have internal swirl flaps which when old, get clogged, don't close properly, get weak and fall off causing havoc. There's a few options - buy a blanking kit for about £40, remove existing manifold, blank it myself and refit (risks boost leaks), buy a used one already blanked from Autolusso for about £120 and fit that or buy a brand new one for about £350 keeping the swirl flaps and map out the EGR so they don't get clogged. Not quite sure which way to go, my Alfa guy says not to remove them but loads seem to have done it.
Once that's done I might look at a remap and get some bits of paintwork done. I'd like to give it to the dentman as well and let him do his stuff. It's one of those cars that shows dents really badly and it's picked up a few in its 10 years! I had him go over a Civic Type R I had about 10 years ago (also bought cheap and neglected...I don't learn!) and couldn't belive how good the results were.
I gave the rear brakes an overhaul over the last couple of days. I've known the discs were ropey for ages and when I took a closer look the pads had about 2mm of material left so it was well overdue. The handbrake wasn't great either. From when I did the front brakes, I anticipated everything being seized and thought the calipers were probably the cause of the crap handbrake (every handbrake caliper I've encountered just seems to go to st with age and seize up) and I've never had much success with just exercising the pistons, so I planned on changing them. I found two brand new on ebay for about £65. I was very wary at that price, but they were alright when they turned up. This is fitted with red calipers so I set up a makeshift spray booth in the shed and splashed some colour on.
They aren't exactly showroom finish but they're good enough. When I got to stripping them down they weren't actually as bad as the fronts and it came apart generally ok, although they've clearly seen no maintenance for a while, but the sliders were all free. It's a bit of a pain though as Alfa saw fit to obscure the bottom carrier bolt with a suspension arm so you need to do a pit of jiggery pokery to make enough room to remove the disc without having to remove the suspension arm.
Horrible old discs off.
Shiney new ones built up. I went for Brembo discs & pads, same as the fronts when ECP had a 50% off code. They're good quality and don't rust off in the middle like cheaper ones. It's made a bigger difference than I thought, it stops on a sixpence now.
You may notice it still has it's old calipers on. That's because when I got into it, the old ones were fine. I noticed one of the handbrake arms wasn't returning to its stop and this is why the handbrake was crap, the cable was siezed. Whilst I was there I thought I may as well fit them like a dhead I rounded off the union to the flexi, so I'd probably have to replace the flexi and get the caliper in a vice to get the old line out and I couldn't be arsed getting into that when essentially it all worked. Suppose I've got some spares now!
The handbrake cable did put up a bit of a fight, I had to dremel it off as I couldn't get enough slack to unclip it from the caliper. And it was very nicely rusted into the central mount.
Managed to free it eventually. So for the minute I've no handbrake. I've already forgotten it was parked in gear once so hopefully the new one turns up before I drive through a shop window or something.
t with age and seize up) and I've never had much success with just exercising the pistons, so I planned on changing them. I found two brand new on ebay for about £65. I was very wary at that price, but they were alright when they turned up. This is fitted with red calipers so I set up a makeshift spray booth in the shed and splashed some colour on.They aren't exactly showroom finish but they're good enough. When I got to stripping them down they weren't actually as bad as the fronts and it came apart generally ok, although they've clearly seen no maintenance for a while, but the sliders were all free. It's a bit of a pain though as Alfa saw fit to obscure the bottom carrier bolt with a suspension arm so you need to do a pit of jiggery pokery to make enough room to remove the disc without having to remove the suspension arm.
Horrible old discs off.
Shiney new ones built up. I went for Brembo discs & pads, same as the fronts when ECP had a 50% off code. They're good quality and don't rust off in the middle like cheaper ones. It's made a bigger difference than I thought, it stops on a sixpence now.
You may notice it still has it's old calipers on. That's because when I got into it, the old ones were fine. I noticed one of the handbrake arms wasn't returning to its stop and this is why the handbrake was crap, the cable was siezed. Whilst I was there I thought I may as well fit them like a d
head I rounded off the union to the flexi, so I'd probably have to replace the flexi and get the caliper in a vice to get the old line out and I couldn't be arsed getting into that when essentially it all worked. Suppose I've got some spares now!The handbrake cable did put up a bit of a fight, I had to dremel it off as I couldn't get enough slack to unclip it from the caliper. And it was very nicely rusted into the central mount.
Managed to free it eventually. So for the minute I've no handbrake. I've already forgotten it was parked in gear once so hopefully the new one turns up before I drive through a shop window or something.
Not much to report on this, although it seems to be getting rather claggy. I've run a tankful of BP posh diesel and injector cleaner through it which seems to have improved things. I've asked my usual garage for a price to de-swirl the inlet manifold but two weeks later, I am yet to recieve one, despite ringing to chase (which I think probably means they don't want to get involved).
However I have noticed a rather annoying quirk. The aircon isn't behaving: when the car's first started (with the aircon on), you hear the compressor kick in and it works fine and brings the rad fan on. If you then turn the aircon off, it won't turn back on until the car has been switched off and on again. It also seems to be turning itself off after about 15 mins use and then won't come on again until the car's switched off and on. I think it's probably been doing this the whole time I've had it, as I was always under the impression that the climate control was crap because it probably needed a regas. It's only with the warmer weather that I've realised that when it's on, it gets nice and cold...it just won't stay on.
I've some cheapo diagnostic software that provides the system pressure when it's running and it's constantly cycling between around 11 and 16, but I dunno if this is normal or if it should keep a constant reading?
Any ideas what might be wrong?
However I have noticed a rather annoying quirk. The aircon isn't behaving: when the car's first started (with the aircon on), you hear the compressor kick in and it works fine and brings the rad fan on. If you then turn the aircon off, it won't turn back on until the car has been switched off and on again. It also seems to be turning itself off after about 15 mins use and then won't come on again until the car's switched off and on. I think it's probably been doing this the whole time I've had it, as I was always under the impression that the climate control was crap because it probably needed a regas. It's only with the warmer weather that I've realised that when it's on, it gets nice and cold...it just won't stay on.
I've some cheapo diagnostic software that provides the system pressure when it's running and it's constantly cycling between around 11 and 16, but I dunno if this is normal or if it should keep a constant reading?
Any ideas what might be wrong?
GTVGKN said:
Not much to report on this, although it seems to be getting rather claggy. I've run a tankful of BP posh diesel and injector cleaner through it which seems to have improved things. I've asked my usual garage for a price to de-swirl the inlet manifold but two weeks later, I am yet to recieve one, despite ringing to chase (which I think probably means they don't want to get involved).
However I have noticed a rather annoying quirk. The aircon isn't behaving: when the car's first started (with the aircon on), you hear the compressor kick in and it works fine and brings the rad fan on. If you then turn the aircon off, it won't turn back on until the car has been switched off and on again. It also seems to be turning itself off after about 15 mins use and then won't come on again until the car's switched off and on. I think it's probably been doing this the whole time I've had it, as I was always under the impression that the climate control was crap because it probably needed a regas. It's only with the warmer weather that I've realised that when it's on, it gets nice and cold...it just won't stay on.
I've some cheapo diagnostic software that provides the system pressure when it's running and it's constantly cycling between around 11 and 16, but I dunno if this is normal or if it should keep a constant reading?
Any ideas what might be wrong?
Sounds like a common case of ItalianCaritis! However I have noticed a rather annoying quirk. The aircon isn't behaving: when the car's first started (with the aircon on), you hear the compressor kick in and it works fine and brings the rad fan on. If you then turn the aircon off, it won't turn back on until the car has been switched off and on again. It also seems to be turning itself off after about 15 mins use and then won't come on again until the car's switched off and on. I think it's probably been doing this the whole time I've had it, as I was always under the impression that the climate control was crap because it probably needed a regas. It's only with the warmer weather that I've realised that when it's on, it gets nice and cold...it just won't stay on.
I've some cheapo diagnostic software that provides the system pressure when it's running and it's constantly cycling between around 11 and 16, but I dunno if this is normal or if it should keep a constant reading?
Any ideas what might be wrong?
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff