RE: Average speed cameras not the end as we know it

RE: Average speed cameras not the end as we know it

Monday 6th May 2019

Average speed cameras not the end as we know it

Another classic driver's road gets 'averaged' but Dan T is not as downhearted as some might be



It would be easy to be gloomy about the arrival of new roadside furniture alongside another classic driving route, such as I discovered while in North Wales to shoot the M4 CS. Having rather enjoyed the drive up the western leg of this well-known three-sided route around the Welsh hills the sight of freshly dug earth around poles topped with ominous yellow boxes had me feeling... thoughtful.

We may grudgingly accept average speed cameras as a feature of our Monday to Friday driving, the crawl through endless roadworks as the motorway network is inexorably 'upgraded' to smart status now a feature of the daily grind. But when it goes beyond the A-B and into recreational routes it can seem like the creeping death of the great British driving road is gathering pace.

It's easy to take such things personally, especially when it appears so deliberately pitched at enthusiasts on two wheels and four, such as happened on the Cat & Fiddle. The reactionary petrolhead response would be to confuse the finger-wagging fun police with the valuable job done by the diminishing number of real ones, ignoring the fact that locals who live near these roads have justifiable concerns about them being celebrated as some sort of unofficial Nordschleife by visiting hoons.


I'm not about to argue the kind of civil disobedience some might advocate, such as ripping through the gears into triple figures and parking up for a fag mid-way between the cameras. And, let's face it, if you're regularly recording point-to-point averages high enough to score a conviction you've likely got bigger issues. But as the disconnect between performance and sensation grows ever wider, cars and bikes get faster but less engaging and more and more roads sprout cameras what's the keen driver to do?

Well, you could go and buy an MX-5. Go on, you knew it was coming. Even I'll accept this isn't necessarily the answer to everything though, the alternative option of buying an older car enjoyable at more realistic speeds opening the field somewhat. Of the two CS generations we were shooting that day the E46 would give you more at sensible speeds than the M4 equivalent, that's for sure.

But to see if you can enjoy an averaged road in a modern performance car I returned this week with a Megane 280 Cup to test the not especially scientific theory that treating these roads as a kind of regularity trial might be the secret to enjoying them responsibly. Without losing the fun factor. Perhaps not as romantic as the dream of the open road but the old adage 'straights are for fast cars, corners are for fast drivers' can inform a new approach.

So back off. Tempting as it may be to nail it when the coast is apparently clear you're 'wasting' more enjoyable speed you could be appreciating elsewhere. Think quality, not quantity. Which isn't to say you're then free to take every blind corner flat out. More that you consider where you might want to carry it and enjoy loading the chassis through well-sighted corners, a sensation you can still appreciate even in something as grippy and capable as the Megane.


With the dulcet tones of Reg Local in my head - we used some of these very roads for our training sessions a couple of years back - I applied a more methodical approach through observation, road position and a more disciplined use of the throttle. Which all sounds terribly worthy. But actually brings fresh challenges and enjoyment derived from more than just numbers.

Not to say tactically resetting the average speed on your trip computer isn't a good idea but it's surprising just how much fun you can have in a modern performance car between two fixed points. Without spending the next 14 days pacing up and down the hallway waiting for the letter to drop.

Of course, there are those who may advocate a more direct response involving pitchforks, burning tyres, dodgy numberplates or ranting from a keyboard, freshly folded tin foil hat in place. The more uplifting reaction is to accept these things are only going to get more prevalent and that the enthusiast driver has to adapt if the simple joy of being at the wheel is to prevail.

Author
Discussion

Esceptico

Original Poster:

7,463 posts

109 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
Sorry but this article is tosh.

A few years back I went on a tour of Scotland with some fellow PHers (mainly GT3 owners). I forget where we were on the second night but it was on the west coast. I needed to get back home so left really early. From looking at the map I had two possible routes which were roughly go south then east or east and south. Unfortunately I chose the later. I can’t remember the road I ended up on but it was about 120 miles of average speed camera controlled hell. Ruined the journey home as I was spending the whole time checking my speed and praying for the average speed cameras to disappear.

I don’t object to the average speed cameras on motorways but extending them to normal A and B roads will further kill the enjoyment of driving / riding.

Cobnapint

8,627 posts

151 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
ASCs are a ball ache on a motorway, but a ball ache you can manage without too much stress by engaging the services of your cruise control.
On B road it's a different matter, there may be slower drivers you may or may not dare to overtake, there's twists/turns and a whole manner of other things to concentrate on without having the additional stress of the nanny state threatening to laden you with several years of increased premiums, points on your license and possible disciplinary action at work.

Vee12V

1,332 posts

160 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
Esceptico said:
Sorry but this article is tosh.
100%. I cannot understand why you'd want to defend the average speed cam BS.

Don Roque

17,996 posts

159 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
Yeah but not thanks, fk average speed cameras.

SOL111

627 posts

132 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
Esceptico said:
Sorry but this article is tosh.

A few years back I went on a tour of Scotland with some fellow PHers (mainly GT3 owners). I forget where we were on the second night but it was on the west coast. I needed to get back home so left really early. From looking at the map I had two possible routes which were roughly go south then east or east and south. Unfortunately I chose the later. I can’t remember the road I ended up on but it was about 120 miles of average speed camera controlled hell. Ruined the journey home as I was spending the whole time checking my speed and praying for the average speed cameras to disappear.

I don’t object to the average speed cameras on motorways but extending them to normal A and B roads will further kill the enjoyment of driving / riding.
Personally I find it relatively straightforward.

Unless you're looking to exceed the speed limits by 50-100% (as much as possible) it's not too difficult to still enjoy the drive.

Any number of bends on an A and B road will kill your average speed considerably, especially if a number of blind ones are thrown in. This will facilitate exceeding the limit between bends should you desire.

Obviously if you're the sort of person who takes blind and hairpin bends at NSL then this might grate but IMHO that sort of driving should be reserved for the track.

Ved

3,825 posts

175 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
What a baffling article

gforceg

3,524 posts

179 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
It appears to be Pitchforks United 1 Flexible Athletic 0 at the moment.

To add balance I agree with parts of the article and accept the sense in working around the problem. Or you could set cruise and spend your energy wingeing about it.

BarcelonaLewis

150 posts

136 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
Esceptico said:
Sorry but this article is tosh.

A few years back I went on a tour of Scotland with some fellow PHers (mainly GT3 owners). I forget where we were on the second night but it was on the west coast. I needed to get back home so left really early. From looking at the map I had two possible routes which were roughly go south then east or east and south. Unfortunately I chose the later. I can’t remember the road I ended up on but it was about 120 miles of average speed camera controlled hell. Ruined the journey home as I was spending the whole time checking my speed and praying for the average speed cameras to disappear.

I don’t object to the average speed cameras on motorways but extending them to normal A and B roads will further kill the enjoyment of driving / riding.
The A9! I've felt your pain many a time, my in-laws live at the other end of it.

SD_1

7,264 posts

158 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
BarcelonaLewis said:
The A9! I've felt your pain many a time, my in-laws live at the other end of it.
Ah yes, what a miserable road that is. Completely spoiled by the idiots that use it, some of the overtakes I have seen begger belief! I think it actually is a little better now that trucks can do 50mph, but the sooner they finish dualling it the better.

Also, it helps that the dual carridgeway sections aren't covered by the average speed cameras.

warch

2,941 posts

154 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
Drivers/riders have really only got themselves to blame, as has the motoring media. Like publicising the Evo Triangle for example, which became notorious for talentless bellends driving like s and then videoing the evidence for everyone (including the Police and bloody speed awareness groups) to see online.

I imagine the Police and emergency services in these areas would much rather not spend all weekend scraping bits of biker off the scenery/closing roads whilst they conduct an investigation too. It's bloody annoying if you are a local too, outlying areas often don't have viable alternative roads if there is a closure on an A road.

I can't stand ASCs they're really quite tiring to drive through, especially on a daily basis but I can see how they've proliferated.




SOL111

627 posts

132 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
gforceg said:
It appears to be Pitchforks United 1 Flexible Athletic 0 at the moment.

To add balance I agree with parts of the article and accept the sense in working around the problem. Or you could set cruise and spend your energy wingeing about it.
Indeed. You can either spend your time hand wringing or just get on with it. Pointless getting irate imo and the article makes a sensible stab at working round a bit of a crap situation.

Someone will develop a Google maps based map before long where it works out the start/end of an average speed cam route and tells you when you're on the wrong side of the limit.

Hub

6,433 posts

198 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
Indeed - you can enjoy driving an A or B road without necessarily driving at dangerous speed. The average speed cameras introduce constant speed watching, which is tiresome.

Ursicles

1,068 posts

242 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
Average speed cameras are actually a danger as people just sent cruise control and then stop paying attention to what's going on.

I'd love to know the stats of accidents in asc zones.

Nigel_O

2,887 posts

219 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
It has been a while since Idrove the Cat & Fiddle, but from memory, breaking 50mph as an average on the Macclesfield side involves some fairly spirited driving in a car (much easier on a bike though)

I partly agree with the “slower car” solution though. For a good few years, my daily driver was a 400+ bhp Fiat Coupe. When I inevitably broke it, I’d borrow one of my lad’s cars, which at the time was either a 1.2 Punto, or a 1.3 Mk1 Golf. About 120bhp between them. It was great fun working hard to keep the speed up and planning an overtake took ages.

I’ve now taken a much braver step to enjoying driving without hitting triple-digit speeds everywhere - a Westfield with about 170bhp. It’s properly quick up to about 60-70, but isn’t much fun after that. However, the way it corners and stops is a world apart from a tin-top. For the first time in many years,I’ve found myself going out for a drive just for the sake of it.

Average speed cameras on A and B roads are still crap though.....

Nigel_O

2,887 posts

219 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all


oops - double-post


Edited by Nigel_O on Tuesday 7th May 16:49

Martin 911

6 posts

168 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
Last year, for our lads’ road trip to the Oldtimer Grand Prix and blast around the Swiss Alps, I took my 996.2 GT3 and had a great trip. Yet, when heading off to do the NC500 just a couple of weeks ago, I didn’t really consider taking the GT3 as I just knew that to really enjoy it on UK roads, I would frequently be into license-losing territory; a risk I can’t afford to take. Fortunately, the perfect car for such a trip was also at my disposal; a 968 Clubsport. Driving out of my front door and hitting the B6277 to Alston, a drive recently featured on this forum, I was able to throw the car into corners and really enjoy it. I have done this drive in lots of cars and the most enjoyable, other than the 968CS (25 years old now) have been a 1976 Carrera 3.0 and a Noble M12 (no spring-chicken). Perhaps I am getting too sensible now I am in my 40’s, but I just don’t think I have enjoyed my recent drives in the UK any more in my GT3 than I have in the 968CS, because in the 968CS you can actually drive it at eight or nine tenths. I am not talented enough or brave/crazy enough to do that in the GT3 on UK roads. Other than the weather, the 968CS really made the NC500 road trip memorable. I must get around to posting a write-up of the trip. I can understand the message here of ‘enjoying the bends’! Still, the only bit of the trip I didn’t enjoy was the speed cameras on the A9.

NIgt3

613 posts

174 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
Esceptico said:
Sorry but this article is tosh.

A few years back I went on a tour of Scotland with some fellow PHers (mainly GT3 owners). I forget where we were on the second night but it was on the west coast. I needed to get back home so left really early. From looking at the map I had two possible routes which were roughly go south then east or east and south. Unfortunately I chose the later. I can’t remember the road I ended up on but it was about 120 miles of average speed camera controlled hell. Ruined the journey home as I was spending the whole time checking my speed and praying for the average speed cameras to disappear.

I don’t object to the average speed cameras on motorways but extending them to normal A and B roads will further kill the enjoyment of driving / riding.
A9 Perth to Inverness, the most depressing road I’ve ever been on!!!!

Fish

3,976 posts

282 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
I sold my 991.2 GT3 fro a 981 Spyder and it is much more suited to the UK roads...

andrewparker

8,014 posts

187 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
I got done by the average speed cameras on the Grane Road between Haslingden and Blackburn over Christmas. It’s a wide free flowing road with a 40mph in place. I followed a old chap in an Escort doing 30-35mph, breaking for every corner, no matter how slight. On a straight section I overtook then coasted back down to 40mph, which was enough to push my average to 47mph. I don’t think you could have fun on that road in any car. I was in my Golf (the infamous PH favourite one), but even in my Up, which always feels like it’s going faster than it is, you feel like you’re standing still.

Le Controleur Horizontal

1,480 posts

60 months

Monday 6th May 2019
quotequote all
The need for people to use the countryside as a race track IS a real issue IF you live next to that race track.
On single lane main roads (to Aberdeen, Boston etc) it can be a big fail due to trucks forming Camel trains.



Edited by Le Controleur Horizontal on Monday 6th May 09:18