RE: Gordon Murray Automotive previews F1 successor

RE: Gordon Murray Automotive previews F1 successor

Wednesday 5th June 2019

Gordon Murray Automotive previews F1 successor

Thought the V12, manual, rear-drive supercars had disappeared? Gordon Murray has other ideas



When an engineering legacy contains cars like the McLaren F1, it must be hard for any other achievements to get the recognition they deserve. That has to be the conundrum for Gordon Murray, one he aims to tackle with this car: the T.50.

The release accompanying these sketches is pretty unambiguous: "Conceived as the spiritual successor to the Murray-devised McLaren F1, the T.50 will be the purest, lightest, most driver-focused supercar ever built." Quite some brief, then, and the spec details already released are mouthwatering to say the least.

The F1 staggers to this day with its compact dimensions, lightweight construction and engine from the heavens, all character traits the T50 looks set to emulate. It will be just 4,380mm long and 1,850mm wide, making it 70mm shorter and only fractionally wider than an Audi A3 saloon. Weight is claimed to be just 980kg, thanks to a carbon tub and a typically Murray obsession with removing weight from every component - he himself calls it an "unflinching dedication".


It gets better, too. As part of its mission statement to deliver "the most driver-focussed performance and dynamics of any road car since the F1", the T.50 will be powered by - get this - a 4.0-litre nat-asp V12, revving to 12,100rpm and making 650hp. Oh yeah, and just 332lb ft - who needs torque when you have revs, right? The engine will be developed by Cosworth (in case excitement wasn't already at fever pitch) and Murray claims the V12 will be the "highest revving, highest power density, lightest and fastest-responding naturally aspirated V12 ever made for a road car." Ruddy hell.

That would surely be a pretty emotional experience with a CVT, but the T.50 is slated to use an Xtrac-developed six-speed manual. Outright performance and lap times are not part of the plan apparently, which, combined with the focus on driver involvement, means the manual make more sense.

That said, it doesn't sound like the T.50 will merely be a shell in which to transport what sounds like a sensational V12. Thanks to a collaboration with an unnamed F1 team, Gordon Murray Automotive will use their wind tunnel to develop 400mm ground effect fan as first seen on the Brabham BT46B - the aim being for the most advanced aero of any road car. Ever.


Other points of note - in case any more were required - are the three-seat layout and dihedral doors like an F1, carbon composite panels, ceramic brakes and ram-air induction via the roof scoop.

According to Murray, the T.50 will follow the F1's focus in being a super GT rather than a stripped-out road racer. There will be selectable engine maps for different driving situations, plus what's claimed to be improvements on the F1 across the board: ingress and egress, maintenance, suspension set up, serviceability and luggage capacity. A laudable aim, for sure, though remember an F1 oil change is £6k - you'd have to hope for something a little more affordable on servicing costs with this car.

Still plenty to find out then, but also a huge amount to be encouraged by with this T.50 project. GMA says that 100 will be made at a cost of £2m each, with deliveries from 2022. Murray predicts this car will be "the last, and the greatest, 'analogue' supercar ever built". We'd agree with his assertion on the first point, and wait with bated breath for further proof of the latter - if it delivers, this could be something very special indeed.


 

Author
Discussion

suffolk009

Original Poster:

5,387 posts

165 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
Wish I had a spare £2m.

Incredible claims that would simply be unbelievable from almost anyone else.

loveice

648 posts

247 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
What's so special about the original F1 isn't only about its technical engineering bits, it's also because if then unmatched exterior and interior design. Therefore, in order for this car to be the true successor of the original F1, they also need the best professional automotive designers, not just the best automotive engineers who are led by Gordon Murray. What would be even better is that those designers (could be only 1 to 3 designers in total for such a small company) should be led by the original F1's chef designer Peter Stevens.

Nerdherder

1,773 posts

97 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
That picture of Murray holding a pen is slightly unnecessary but my god, what a car this promises to be. Wonder how Satrústegui the market for these cars is and will be the upcoming few years by the way.

NicoG

640 posts

208 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
What, exactly, dictates SIX THOUSAND POUNDS for an Oil change on an Mac F1?

cookie1600

2,114 posts

161 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
NicoG said:
What, exactly, dictates SIX THOUSAND POUNDS for an Oil change on an Mac F1?
Because McLaren F1

I guess you could get it done at Halfords for £40, or do it yourself jacked up by the side of the road......

sideways man

1,315 posts

137 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
£6k for an oil change on an F1. That’s a misprint surely...

Snubs

1,172 posts

139 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
I read somewhere the other day, possibly on PH or it might have been Andrew Frankel on Instagram, that McLaren have said only 7 F1s see regular use. Which for me taints this project. With 100 to be built, so not many more than the F1, and an equally huge price tag, it just seems to run the risk of being 'the greatest analogue supercar ever to sit on static display'. What a waste that would be.

Taking the philosophy and seeing what you could do with it on a series production car at anything between £50,000 and £200,000 would surely increase the chances of the car being used as intended.

BOR

4,702 posts

255 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
The engine in the sketch looks like a 180degree v-12.

Seems to be a motorbike style bore/stroke ratio engine, which is exciting, but might not exactly be what the buyers really want.

But I am disappointed to see another car with twice as much BHP as necessary. A six cylinder with half the power but less weight would have impressed me more.

Another trinket for the rich.

Beefmeister

16,482 posts

230 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
Snubs said:
I read somewhere the other day, possibly on PH or it might have been Andrew Frankel on Instagram, that McLaren have said only 7 F1s see regular use. Which for me taints this project. With 100 to be built, so not many more than the F1, and an equally huge price tag, it just seems to run the risk of being 'the greatest analogue supercar ever to sit on static display'. What a waste that would be.

Taking the philosophy and seeing what you could do with it on a series production car at anything between £50,000 and £200,000 would surely increase the chances of the car being used as intended.
It's more than that, though I guess it depends on your definition of 'regular use'.

They are a victim of their own success really, I know a PHer with one that is driven a lot, but he's getting increasingly nervous about taking his out, despite it getting regular use in all weather. It is a £10+m car now after all.

Beefmeister

16,482 posts

230 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm led to believe that the T.50 is basically proof of concept. 100 at £2.2m brings in a fairly healthy amount of cash and will enable them to build a £300k model next, followed by a £100k model.

je777

341 posts

104 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
If you have the money, you put an order in now. Simple at that.

I'd have a Valkyrie too. That way you're going to have what are likely to be the two best - and yet differing - versions of a supercar for years to come (very possibly ever).

Now, I'm just waiting for the rain to go off so that I can sellotape down the rear window seal on my 2002 Astra to stop the wind coming in. Ah, the real world... how you smite me.

Name of user

176 posts

107 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
Veeeery exciting

shirt

22,555 posts

201 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all

CoupeKid

753 posts

65 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
High revving N/A engine from Cosworth...

How much will that owe to the Valkyrie??

dandare

957 posts

254 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
Good news for a few drivers.
Sadly way out of my price range.
I bet it'll be good though. I still think the F1 is one of the best looking mid-engined sportscars ever made, and it performed like no other.

romac

595 posts

146 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
Would be great to see the ground-effect fan making it into road-use.

There's history...
  • Apparently Ariel tried out the idea fairly recently on an Atom...
  • Then there's GM's own Brabham BT46B F1 car, mentioned in the article...
  • And even further back, Jim Hall's Chaparral 2J...
Maybe they could reverse the fan for cruising down the river!

BUT, 100 at £2M each is only £200M - is man-maths at work here?

GetCarter

29,377 posts

279 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
I decided to take a rain cheque. £600k deposit.

(He has lots of deposits already - I asked from who - 'The usual suspects' was his reply).

GetCarter

29,377 posts

279 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
Nerdherder said:
That picture of Murray holding a pen is slightly unnecessary
Except of course, he designs everything with a pen/pencil. He has NO idea how to use a computer!

Thankyou4calling

10,602 posts

173 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
Like most of the ideas and concepts coming out of the studio I’m afraid this will not materialise

GetCarter

29,377 posts

279 months

Wednesday 5th June 2019
quotequote all
Thankyou4calling said:
Like most of the ideas and concepts coming out of the studio I’m afraid this will not materialise
Want a bet?