RE: Government firms up road charging plans

RE: Government firms up road charging plans

Monday 6th June 2005

Government firms up road charging plans

Universal satellite tracking is on the way


Welcome to the brave new world of permanent, universal satellite tracking
Welcome to the brave new world of permanent, universal satellite tracking

Planting more trees and providing better information to drivers are among the planks of the Government's plans to cut pollution, following World Environment Day yesterday. But it also plans to bring in car-pool lanes on the M1 and M25 and, for the longer term, is firming up its plans to introduce universal, satellite-based road charging.

Transport secretary Alistair Darling is looking for a cross-party deal to bring in laws that enable a highly ambitious road-charging scheme. The rationale, said Darling, is to avert the prospect of "complete gridlock" on Britain's highways.

If introduced, under the scheme drivers will have to pay between 2p and £1.30 a mile for each car journey, depending on the road and when they drive. They will be monitored by satellite, with variable rates levied according to the time, type of road and location.

In mitigation, he said fuel tax and vehicle excise duty would be cut. However, Darling did not say whether the overall tax take would  stay the same or rise as a consequence -- one cannot imagine it would reduce.

The plan is to introduce a bill within two years for a pilot charging scheme using satellite technology. This could start in the Midlands or in Manchester by 2010.

Reaction from the other two main parties has been muted with the Lib Dems giving it a cautious welcome, provided it was not a stealth tax. The Tories said lowering congestion was a good idea but questioned why the Government did not mention it before the election.

Last year, the Department of Transport conducted a feasibility study that concluded that universal road charging could cut traffic by four per cent, which it said was enough to cut the time drivers spend in jams by up to 46 per cent.

While there is support among organisations such as the RAC Foundation for encouragement to travel outside of rush hours in order to stagger the load on Britain's overcrowded roads, the motoring body pointed out that car owners already pay £42bn annually in tax, of which only £6bn is spent on improving roads.

PistonHeads adds that the scheme will rely heavily on a complex computer-based system as well as satellites. The UK government has not been very successful at making computer schemes work, and getting them set up on time and within budget.

Darling said that nationwide charging might happen within "10 to 15 years", although he recognised that it would be impossible to impose without public support.

Pollution reduction

The Highways Agency, which is responsible for England's motorways and trunk roads, recently planted its 50 millionth tree on land next to motorways and trunk roads, as part of the planting scheme for the Lamberhurst bypass on the A21 in Kent. Tree and shrub planting covers nearly half the Agency's 33,000 hectare estate and brings benefits for air quality, biodiversity and landscape integration.

Reducing pollution from vehicles is one of the benefits from delivering better travel information to drivers. The Agency's new national traffic control centre in Quinton, Birmingham has begun delivering this service nationally.

The Agency is developing plans for a car share lane on the M1 and investigating a similar scheme on the M25 to help reduce the number of cars using these motorways.

Meanwhile staff in the Agency are being encouraged to switch to greener forms of travel to get to and from work.

When the Highways Agency moves offices in Bedford later this year, all staff will be offered the chance to switch from cars to bicycles. Five bikes are being made available at Woodlands, the new Agency offices, for staff wishing to use them under the book-a-bike scheme.

In Manchester, staff are guaranteed a car parking place if they car share. In Birmingham if staff give up using the car and switch to trains, they are given a 50 per cent reduction on a season ticket for the first year. Seventy staff have opted for the train so far.

Peter Evans, the Agency's green travel coordinator says: "Each of these actions may seem small but together they can make a big difference. We have been delighted with the positive response from our staff."

Under a new initiative to support the environment alongside strategic roads, the Agency has launched the environment management system to map the wildlife, plant life and cultural heritage alongside these important roads. The information will be available to road managers in an electronic format.

Author
Discussion

Wildfire

Original Poster:

9,789 posts

252 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
So not only do they want to up road tax, they also want to charge an extortionate fee for the privlege of driving a car that you have already paid for along with the fuel. I do believe that is what petrol's for? A way of charging as you go?

To add to that I'm sure they won't hesitate to stick on the GPS tracking to enforce more speeding fines, the country's going right down the pan!!

nicfaz

432 posts

230 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
So what do we reckon?

1) Incompetence

2) A conspiracy to get us all satellite tagged, us paying for it and justified in the name of the environment.

All vote now..., oops we just did.

britten_mark

1,593 posts

253 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
Wildfire said:
I'm sure they won't hesitate to stick on the GPS tracking to enforce more speeding fines, the country's going right down the pan!!


I think that's the more worrying part.

anniesdad

14,589 posts

238 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
This will send the less scrupulous driver further underground and will mean the innocent motorist further punished.

For cars not fitted with "GPS trackers" or whatever they will use, will these be remotely disabled from space?

I doubt it. Complete codswallop.

angrys3owner

15,855 posts

229 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
I think the best thing I heard from D"$"HEAD darling on an interview at the weekend... might add was about to kick the tv was getting so annoyed.

reporter says "does this not have rather serious human rights issues to do with all the data being recorded of where people are going etc."

t"4t says "these are all things that need to be looked into, but there is no reason to know exactely where someone is just on which bit of road they are travelling on!"

I see mr darling so you clearly don't understand what GPS tracking will do then, I want to know how they are going to get me to put one of these things in my car as I see it as a serious human rights / big brother problem, and who doesn't think this would very quickly be a really good way to help fight "crime" after it's introduced.

I can see I will only be voting next time on human rights / transport policy, what a bunch of t055ers!

and relax...

sgrimshaw

7,323 posts

250 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
Ignoring the elimination of Fuel Duty, 'cause that is just so not going to happen, at the cheapest rate of tax, you get just 8000 miles per year (£160 Road Tax at £0.02 per mile) - they can get fg stuffed!

Never going to happen - needs public support? He's got two hopes, and one of those is Bob!

chimyellow

363 posts

259 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
It is bad enough the amount of tax that we pay at the moment, made even worse by the fact that the majority does not go back into maintaining the roads.
Charging by the mile would mean that it would not be worth me going to work! Oh well... I can always fall back on the dole (or what ever they call it now days), get my house paid for, possibly a holiday becasue I am stressed trying to find a job THAT I CAN WALK TO.....

Tuna

19,930 posts

284 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
Three words:

Instant Speeding Fines

Dear Mr Smith,

We noticed that at 8.30pm last week, you were driving your car. During the 30 minute drive you exceeded the speed limit 3 times. You have automatically been fined ninety pounds. For the record, you were travelling at 32 miles an hour in a 30 zone, 43 miles an hour in a 40 mph limit, and 31 miles an hour in a 30 zone.

During your drive you were in the vicinity of a burglary. You stopped for a couple of minutes, either at a traffic light in the area, or to pick up a passenger. Could you please go to your local police station and fill in a report so we can rule you out of our investigations.

Please note that in the last 20 days you have been within your local town's congestion zone on 10 occasions. You have already been invoiced for this, but you are reminded of your monthly limit of 12 visits.

Finally from your driving patterns, we note that you are missing out on an excellent opportunity to buy a range of sportswear from The Sports Zone. The Sports Zone is closer to your home than other sports shops you have visited, and provides excellent low cost parking. This letter was sponsored in part by The Sports Zone, who look forward to your visit.

Kind Regards,
A. Computer

AlexH

2,505 posts

284 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
The future for driving is looking very, very bleak.

bongotvr

163 posts

241 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
AlexH said:
The future for driving is looking very, very bleak.


Totally agree, mass protests may be required......

MilnerR

8,273 posts

258 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
AlexH said:
The future for driving is looking very, very bleak.



Only if we let it! Any attempt to fit a GPS tracker to my car will go the same way as an ID card! Bin!

qsilver911

8 posts

240 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
How on earth do they think this is going to work. There will be people out there who will manage to hack the black boxes or just break and take them out. Which will lead to a world of complication and like 99% of all government I.T. projects will overun and not work.

The Surveyor

7,576 posts

237 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
And who do you think will be expected to pay of these tracking units, that we have to fit to our cars so we can pay more for using our existing crap pot-holed roads, yes us..... the individual honest motorist.

Remember we would all have to pay for identity cards, as they wouldn't be issued free (unless you were a asylum seeking, cross dressing lesbian!!).

It is no wonder this wasn't in the Labour manifesto from last months general election, they must think we are stupid.

Kinky

39,556 posts

269 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
I wonder which Labour MP and/or Labour party £££ donor is on the board of the company that will provide this technology?

neil_c

61 posts

231 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
This idea should go the same route as that other great GovernMENTAL idea the Poll Tax.

What a waste of time and money, is this a way of justifying Whitehall jobs?

We already have a tax that charges for road uses, it called fuel duty (Why they dont just call it Turpin tax I dont know)

I think there is a far more sinister back drop to this. As well as the 'eye in the sky' tracking movements 24-7 and the obvious immediate speeding tickets, It will give them far more scope to tailor the charges once they have some usage data. Then once they have got to a level of income that that can do so I can see speed being physically restricted by the gadgets.

I didnt want this lot back in power and I dont want their stupid black box and road charging. I think this needs opposing strongly and opposing now.

vetteheadracer

8,271 posts

253 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
No way they are fitting a tracking device to my car.

Buzz-Light-Year

6 posts

238 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
So, looking to the future of commuting - I take my car out of the garage for my journey to work - and before I can legally start my journey, I have to wait for my Black box GPS receiver to lock on to satelites.

Anyone with a GPS system in their car will know this can take between 2 and 10 mins in ideal circumstances.

If you live in a city with tall buildings, you may not ever get a lock unless you drive half a mile down the roads.

If you live in the country, you'll be loosing your GPS tracking as you drive under your recently Government Highways agency funded tree planted road.

Of course, this will make you late - so you'll be aggitated and prone to speeding and road rage - God help you if you were hoping to get to hospital in an hurry.

This Government will spend Millions and Millions of OUR money developing this scheme that invades our privacy only to realise that just like the Government set-up 'Transprt Direct' internet joke - it can't work properly.

This will be the next Government Big White Elephant!

As for me - if this country carries on the way it's going... well I won't be living here.

But then I could make a fortune selling pretty covers for your Black box... made out of the finest thick lead!!!!!


chevy-stu

5,392 posts

228 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
Kinky said:
I wonder which Labour MP and/or Labour party £££ donor is on the board of the company that will provide this technology?

Good point Guvnor!!!!!!!!!
Bit of Gore Vidal logic.

Chrome Orange

140 posts

257 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
"The Torys wondered why this wasn't mentioned before the general election"
Why? Because the devious scumbags who reside imperiously in Downing Street don't give a stuff about the public and know only too well that had this been made public they would have lost the election.

If you voted labour you should have to pay double as a punishment.

All this to reduce congestion by 4%? Fix the housing market and employment practices such that it may be possible to live a) Near work, or b) Somewhere other than the South East may be a better tack.
As for fixing the environment as domestc heating and energy consumption makes more pollution than cars how about tackling that? Why no catalytic convertors on central heating? Because labour know we have to pay.

This is pure unadulterated TAXATION dressed in SPIN.

Get this party out of office please.

veg

497 posts

283 months

Monday 6th June 2005
quotequote all
I love this.

I will definately buying one of the "disable your government tracking device and save 000's" gizzmos that are bound to surface. Plus if they rely on cameras less and I can't be tracked, I can speed when and where I like!
Bring it on the fools!