RE: Le Mans Hypercar class takes first official step

RE: Le Mans Hypercar class takes first official step

Thursday 5th December 2019

Le Mans Hypercar class takes first official step

FIA approves ACO's proposals, including unlimited testing for new racers ahead of 2020 start



Remember the Le Mans Hypercar class that’s supposed to succeed the World Endurance Championship’s LMP1 category in just under a year? After dropping off the radar for a bit, it’s just been given official approval by the FIA, so future entrants Toyota, Aston Martin and Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus can now develop their cars with newfound certainty. The Hypercar class teams – which will also include Peugeot from 2022 – have been granted unrestricted testing mileage for the "first year of homologation" of each car, too, meaning we’re potentially only a few weeks away from seeing regular on-track Hypercar action in the run up to the 2020-2021 season. Finally.

So far, only Toyota has publicly announced the testing of its upcoming machine. The 2018 and 2019 Le Mans-winning team will field a prototype based on its future GR Super Sport road car, which was last seen testing on track in the summer. By contrast, rival SCG has so far only shown its 007 racer in a series of renderings, while Aston Martin’s Valkyrie-based machine is yet actually to break cover. You could say that’s of little surprise, though, given the secrecy of racing car development; only those involved will accurately know how far along the development line each of these cars is.


It's true that Peugeot will start development of its racing car later than its future rivals, but the French brand will also be granted unlimited testing mileage, as it applies to all new entrants for their opening season. The French brand only received support to enter the category from its parent, PSA, last month, but it also knows a thing or two about developing Le Mans-winning racers...

While the regulations will present teams with much development freedom when it comes to their racers’ bodywork, they will have to conform to a set few performance limitations. Each Hypercar class entrant will have to weigh at least 1,040kg and use a hybrid powertrain with no more than 750hp of combustion engine power and 270hp of electric grunt. The intention is for the fastest cars to lap the Circuit de la Sarthe in three and a half minutes, which would make them around 10 seconds slower than 2019’s polesitter time, set by Toyota’s TS050 Hybrid. To ensure the competition is hot, the WEC will extend the GTE’s Balance of Performance system into its new top category. If recent history is anything to go by, that alone should produce as much controversy as it does close racing.

Author
Discussion

DS240

Original Poster:

4,672 posts

218 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Still no clearer from this about the set up in terms of car design..

It seemed a bit messy from previous info whether they had to be based on a road legal car or you could also enter with an all out prototype.

What design limits are there in terms of size, shape etc? Even with BOP it seems odd you can have something designed to be capable of road use but others using something designed as an all out racing car.

I hope it works for the sake of the LM24 event. I want to see multiple manufactures fighting for the win. Whether it turns out to be cheaper making a competitive ‘hypercar’ prototype rather than an LMP1 remains to be seen.

I just missed out on the last GT1 era, so hope we end up with amazing homologation specials.


Krikkit

26,527 posts

181 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
DS240 said:
What design limits are there in terms of size, shape etc? Even with BOP it seems odd you can have something designed to be capable of road use but others using something designed as an all out racing car.
They haven't yet published a full set of technical regulations - you would have to assume it's been agreed in principle but not yet ratified, in order to have all the teams on-side.

Basically a ceiling power of 750hp, 1100-odd kg, optional hybrid with a max power of 270hp. BoP will mean they target a 3m30s race laptime at Le Mans.

Sandpit Steve

10,035 posts

74 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Will be good to see the regulations published for this series, let’s hope we can get six or seven manufacturers all chasing the overall victory.

CanoeSniffer

927 posts

87 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
It’s a shallow statement that the variety or raw appeal of the cars should affect ones interest in the racing, but for WEC this has sadly been true for me- I just haven’t been able to get excited about the LMP machines for several years, regardless of their technical ability or the quality of the races.

I am so excited about this. Different technical approaches, unique cars, hopefully the BOP rules create some equality between them. Can’t wait!

MikeGalos

261 posts

284 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
I find it hard to get excited about a "high end" class that has a minimum weight requirement and a maximum power requirement. Those are both declaring that technological innovation in areas like materials science and improved efficiency that eventually could make it into road cars won't be valued and thus won't be improved.

Instead, let's have a maximum weight requirement and a fixed engine and motor size combined with limited fuel and battery capacities and a limit on refueling/recharging.

Big Robbo

319 posts

146 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
They have stipulated that all entrants must be a recognised manufacturer and make 20cars within a 2year period. Glickenhous and Bykolles might not get an invite

hothatchery7

103 posts

75 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
There’s always critics for absolutely everything and anything. But in my opinion this was the only way forward. LMP1 was dead, one manufacturer in the running with privateers. Regardless of the rules the FIA come up with its surely got to be better seeing various manufacturers battle it out again. I genuinely think the FIA is underestimating how fast these cars will be and with serious sandbagging before Le Mans, it will be a spectacle of speed!

Gandahar

9,600 posts

128 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
hothatchery7 said:
There’s always critics for absolutely everything and anything. But in my opinion this was the only way forward. LMP1 was dead, one manufacturer in the running with privateers. Regardless of the rules the FIA come up with its surely got to be better seeing various manufacturers battle it out again. I genuinely think the FIA is underestimating how fast these cars will be and with serious sandbagging before Le Mans, it will be a spectacle of speed!
Agree, Toyota stayed with as Audi and Porsche dropped out and Toyota got then hit with negative fan comments when it was not their fault. Now they are moving to hypercars and we need other manufacturers to come back in.

I know Formula E is flavour of the month but did you watch the ecologically great race in the petrochem state of Saudi recently? Not exactly exciting.

Le Mans hypercar seems ideal for the Mercedes AMG Project One. Er, if it can ever see the light of day.

bobo79

294 posts

149 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
I find it very difficult to care about a race using BoP. Did the fastest guys win? Or did they just get given the best BoP?

BoP means you never know if the race is real or not, which for me means I can’t watch it.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

198 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
CanoeSniffer said:
It’s a shallow statement that the variety or raw appeal of the cars should affect ones interest in the racing, but for WEC this has sadly been true for me- I just haven’t been able to get excited about the LMP machines for several years, regardless of their technical ability or the quality of the races.

I am so excited about this. Different technical approaches, unique cars, hopefully the BOP rules create some equality between them. Can’t wait!
Just out of interest what spec or mans car would we need to see a target 3min dead (or less) lap time?

big_rob_sydney

3,402 posts

194 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Hypercar category, so I guess the manufacturers have already spent crazy money. Veyrons lost a tonne of money on each car sold, because the budget was massive, and units sold was relatively low.

So now we have these rules which I guess at one level are designed to limit chequebook winning. But why bother? Why have the absolute best of the best (hypercars), and then knacker them? BoP may see teams shrug their shoulders and say "why bother."

I hope I'm wrong. But one series after another has come and gone, and I struggle to remain interested. About the only thing I really loved was Group A racing, and that was because the cars racing could actually be bought, and yet we still had tight racing. Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday. Or so it went. Look at whats available now. Silhouette racing. Uggh.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

198 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Group C was superb no?

thatsprettyshady

1,824 posts

165 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
bobo79 said:
I find it very difficult to care about a race using BoP. Did the fastest guys win? Or did they just get given the best BoP?

BoP means you never know if the race is real or not, which for me means I can’t watch it.
To be fair BOP is what keeps all these different GTE/GT3/GT4 etc series viable, GT1 disappeared after one manufacturer spent the most money and ran away with it so everyone else ended up leaving.

Personally I enjoy watch a Ford GT fight a Corvette fighting a Ferrari which is fighting a BMW M8, all the cars have strengths and weaknesses but BOP keeps it balanced.

MikeT66

2,680 posts

124 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
thatsprettyshady said:
bobo79 said:
I find it very difficult to care about a race using BoP. Did the fastest guys win? Or did they just get given the best BoP?

BoP means you never know if the race is real or not, which for me means I can’t watch it.
To be fair BOP is what keeps all these different GTE/GT3/GT4 etc series viable, GT1 disappeared after one manufacturer spent the most money and ran away with it so everyone else ended up leaving.

Personally I enjoy watch a Ford GT fight a Corvette fighting a Ferrari which is fighting a BMW M8, all the cars have strengths and weaknesses but BOP keeps it balanced.
I can see arguments for both sides on the BoP debate. Yes, it keeps the racing (artificially) close, but why spend millions developing a car (Ford GT, Porsche RSR) when it will just get pegged back to, say, Aston Martin's performance level? One of the intrinsic points of racing is to build the best and fastest, not just hope for a good BoP adjustment (BMW).

I hope the Hypercar idea works - the LMP1 and LMP2 (plus DPi in IMSA) hold no interest for me. Yes, the machinery and engineering is amazing (even more so than F1, I think) but the cars leave me cold. LMP2/DPi is just a load of look-a-likes going round a track and I can hardly tell what is what. The GTE category has always been the most interesting recently. Corvette, Ford, Ferrari, Porsche, Aston and BMW - brilliant. The WEC/Le Mans needs a bit more of that in the top category, IMHO.

As it's sportscar racing, I'd still like to see the cars have two fully-accessible seats, an accessible luggage compartment (not under the car, Nissan) and a minimum build number for road cars to qualify for the OEMs. It would be ideal if the likes of Bykolles and Glikenhaus got get a way in too,

One thing is certain - Sportscar racing needs to change direction if it is to survive. Apart from Le Mans 24h the series aren't huge crowd-pullers, and both WEC and IMSA should have an agreed platform so race teams can challenge for both (Ford and McLaren both wanted this). LMP1 is dead - let's hope Hypercar (I hate the fking term) is a way forward.

Big Robbo

319 posts

146 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
I think it would have made sense to have regulations that suited both WEC and IMSA but when have the ACO ever had any sense. Surely it's time for the FIA to take control of the sports car regulations?
The ACO is just a national thing yet because they have the 24hrs they seem to think they had some God given right to dictate to the FIA

anonymous-user

54 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
It's a 24 hour race so I hope that £2,000,000 Lotus Evija hypercar comes with a spare battery and a fast charger!

ArnageWRC

2,065 posts

159 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
Big Robbo said:
I think it would have made sense to have regulations that suited both WEC and IMSA but when have the ACO ever had any sense. Surely it's time for the FIA to take control of the sports car regulations?
The ACO is just a national thing yet because they have the 24hrs they seem to think they had some God given right to dictate to the FIA
Have to agree with this. They're full of their own importance - all because they run Le Mans. They've consistently shown they're not up to running a major FiA World Championship. However, Le Mans is Sportscar racing (for good & bad) and the FiA need the ACO onside, as they would likely pull the race out of the World Championship if the FiA took over.

British Beef

2,213 posts

165 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
MikeGalos said:
I find it hard to get excited about a "high end" class that has a minimum weight requirement and a maximum power requirement. Those are both declaring that technological innovation in areas like materials science and improved efficiency that eventually could make it into road cars won't be valued and thus won't be improved.

Instead, let's have a maximum weight requirement and a fixed engine and motor size combined with limited fuel and battery capacities and a limit on refueling/recharging.
It is a tricky one. The thinking is making a level playing field weather you have a $50M budget or like Audi a $500M budget.

I limit on fuel usage would result in exactly the same outcome, those with bigger budgets making better faster more efficient race cars.

I think an equaliser would be unlimited power, retain the minimum weight and have tyres width restrictions to limit grip. I would have though that would result in close racing between the teams of different budgets.

Problem with max power limits, is most engines have a peak power band of a few 100 rpm. With turbo cars and big budgets the top teams can give their cars 90% peak power band that cover half the rev range.

Antj

1,047 posts

200 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
For any die hard Le mans fans this is all amazing news, With the slow gradual death of LMP1 in the last 10 years its good to see a new class with IC at its heart. Unlimited testing also means we will see some amazing machines with great reliability.

bobo79

294 posts

149 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
thatsprettyshady said:
To be fair BOP is what keeps all these different GTE/GT3/GT4 etc series viable, GT1 disappeared after one manufacturer spent the most money and ran away with it so everyone else ended up leaving.

Personally I enjoy watch a Ford GT fight a Corvette fighting a Ferrari which is fighting a BMW M8, all the cars have strengths and weaknesses but BOP keeps it balanced.
I get why BoP exists. I just am not interested in the end product because it is highly artificial.

But I agree there is a fundamental existential problem for motorsport and sportscar racing in particular. The only alternatives appear to be spec racing (just as bad), near spec racing (LMP2 or arguably FE & Indy) or ludicrously expensive ‘prototype’ racing. Practically the only categories that are still racing genuine prototypes are F1 and - as of now - LMP1 - though even that has been ruined by success ballast.

Might just have to watch old races on YouTube. Or just accept that racing as I knew it is dead and will from now on be a series of WWF events or gimmicky PR stunts like the 917 Evo.

I’m not even *that* old...