New Toyota Celica to be hybrid
But it won't arrive before 2008
Toyota CS+S concept
According to a report in this week's Autocar, the Japanese car giant, which recently overtook GM as the world's biggest carmaker, is developing a mid-engined, 4WD hybrid car with four seats to replace both the MR2 and Celica. Both cars are nearing the end of their lives and will be withdrawn by mid-2006.
It could be called a Celica -- that's yet to be determined -- and it will draw inspiration from the CS+S concept shown in Tokyo in 2003 -- see pic. However, it leaves Toyota without a high-performance motor for the time being.
A radical departure for a sports car, the machine could house a power train similar to that of the Toyota Yaris T-Sport, using a 105bhp petrol engine, as does the Prius hybrid. It'll rev to 7,000rpm though, which, since the engine's a VVT-i, suggests that the power will mostly be found at the top end of the rev range.
Behind the engine will be a continuously variable transmission with artificial steps to make it a more familiar experience. But there'll also be a two electric motors, one for each pair of wheels, that'll kick in during urban excursions, and when extra power is called for. For example, the Prius's motors develop some 400lb-ft of torque, which is not to be sniffed at.
Other packaging firsts include a folding metal roof, the first in a mid-engined car. The delay is down to a shortage of hybrid drive-trains within Toyota, which is struggling to fulfil demand for them as it is.
Sounds like one to watch...
havoc said:
Folding metal roof
2 electric motors
All the latest crash-protection...
...it'll weight TONS!!!
...and they give it a SMALL VVTi engine to propel it?!? Hope those 'leccy motors have some real kick to them, otherwise it's going to be slower than the current one!!!
They mention 400ft/lbd though, that enough grunt to shift a couple of tons with ease so should be okay?
they've been off the boil for ages with their sports cars since the last Supra - which was a fab car; but then you guys MUST remember the Carlos Saintz GT4 celica they did?
Gazboy said:
does the world's biggest car manufacturer really give two tots about withdrawing two minor models in terms of their galactic sales?
they've been off the boil for ages with their sports cars since the last Supra - which was a fab car; but then you guys MUST remember the Carlos Saintz GT4 celica they did?
Supra ceased production in 2002. But otherwise agree (and have said so for ages) Toyota have lost the plot.
Hang on...weren't we the ones cheering on the 'new' supra - that V10 Lexus. Or is that not now being built?!?
It's not worth putting a back seat in a coupe so why bother, 2 seats and lighter?
I can't help thinking that a secondhand XKR might be a better bet, especially with Toyota reliablity to consider.
Gazboy said:
Jeez, the Supra idea really is dead...
Lexus: Watch this space.
Rumours have been persisting for ages that the next Supra will be a Lexus, designed to be more upmarket than the last model and give Toyota a foil to the likes of AMG Mercs.
As for this - hmmmm. I mean, I can see where they're coming from, combining the best ideas from the MR2 and the Celica whilst adding new stuff like hybrid drive, but won't it be, well, a bit of a mess?
Still, I like the idea of a new mid-engined 4x4 car - shades of Group B - can you imagine if they entered a fixed-head version in the WRC?
cdp said:
I can't help thinking that a secondhand XKR might be a better bet, especially with Toyota reliablity to consider.
are you trying to suggest that Jaguar are more reliable than Toyota?
Toyota are generally considered to be about the best in the world for reliablility.
or did I miss some sarcasm there?
edit: have to says I'd be oging for an XKR over this thing too though. just look at it...
>> Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 15th February 10:49
GravelBen said:
I can't help thinking that a secondhand XKR might be a better bet, especially with Toyota reliablity to consider.
are you trying to suggest that Jaguar are more reliable than Toyota?
Toyota are generally considered to be about the best in the world for reliablility.
or did I miss some sarcasm there?
edit: have to says I'd be oging for an XKR over this thing too though. just look at it...
>> Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 15th February 10:49
From personal experience I would say _YES_ a Jaguar _IS_MUCH_MORE_RELIABLE_ than a Toyota.
I had a Toyota, in a short period it demanded:
Front brakes, discs, pads, capliers - 3 or 4 sets (lost count at 400 per time). Design?
Alternator X 2. Both cracked around the casing and split in half, again 400 each. Design?
Gearlinkage. Twice. At £400 per time
Both Front shock absorbers. Twice.
Steering rack rebuilt (£1200)
Clutch. 3 times.
Both rear wheel bearings. Twice.
Engine siezed.
In comparison my father has an 1999 XJ8, which he's owned since 2001. It's been perfect, the servicing is cheap and I can get 30mpg out of it.
My brother had an XJ12 - put about 20K on it in a year and it was excellent. Bearing in mind it hadn't been used for about 5 years and was 23 years old. He also had a MK10 which was used for a weekly round trip of 600 miles for almost a year. Apart from having to have the brakes replaced (they were almost 40 years old) it was completely reliable.
Similarly I've had a Metro, Rover 800, Leyland Princess (6 cylinder - fantastic engine), and a Vectra (bought in response to the Toyota in dispair). All been excellent.
If you think I had a lemon, I knew a number of other people who had MR2s with similar problems. One of the famous design flaws involves a completely unprotected radiator that gets wrecked by stones, though I didn't suffer that one. They are very expensive from Toyota. I remember at work discussing best places to get engines with other owners who had replaced or were about to replace them.
Take a look on EBay at the number of '2s where they say "replacement engine", "spare engine" or "engine needs attention".
My Toyota was just about perfect when I sold it for £3200. But then I had spent over 4K on it in the previous year so just about everything was new......
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