RE: VW Ups The Ante In Porsche Merger Bid

RE: VW Ups The Ante In Porsche Merger Bid

Monday 13th July 2009

VW Ups The Ante In Porsche Merger Bid

VW increases its bid for a stake in the German sports car maker



Volkswagen has raised the stakes in its bid to purchase a 49.9 per cent share in Porsche AG.

VW originally bid between 3 billion and 4 billion euros for a stake in the German sports car maker, a move which would help alleviate some of the 9 billion euros of debt Porsche SE (the car maker's parent company) has built up in its attempt to take over VW.

Now, though, VW has reportedly pushed its bid to considerably more than 4 billion euros, though German weekly Der Spiegel has said that Porsche CEO Wendelin Wiedeking still reckons the new sum is not enough.

Instead, Wiedeking is said to be keener on an investment by the state of Qatar in 25 per cent of the whole Porsche organisation. In that scenario, Qatar would pay 7 billion euros for a quarter of the Sports car business and Porsche's options on VW stock.

The preferred method of saving Porsche is likely to be decided on 23rd July, when the Porsche supervisory board meets.

Author
Discussion

type-r

Original Poster:

13,918 posts

212 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
I just don't understand how Porsche are in this situation... didn't they burn loads of hedge fund managers through options it held on VW stock about 6 months ago? They made billions of euro's overnight! Wendelin Wiedeking was hailed a finanicial wizard. And now they are 9bn in the red!?

dpbird90

5,535 posts

189 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
This is getting very confusing. Porsche bought shares in VW, now VW are buying shares in Porsche; does this mean they are also buying themselves?

LuS1fer

41,085 posts

244 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
Don't worry, the Bananamera will get Porsche out of difficulty...no, wait.... wink

Rude-boy

22,227 posts

232 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
Yes Porsche did make a killing, with someone else's money which they had borrowed. Every penny they borrowed or made was used to buy VW shares.

They gambled on a law the EU had ruled as being illegal being revoked. It was, but it was immediately replaced by another almost identical one. This stopped Porsche buying the last shares it needed for control and to get their hands on the money to payback their backers.

The biter got bitten.



havoc

29,927 posts

234 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
Rude-boy said:
The biter got bitten.
No, the German gov't (or at least Lower Saxony's) defied EU law (in spirit at least).

This has f'd Porsche over and left them vulnerable to VW...one might almost think that Lower Saxony like their veto over VW so much they're prepared to play silly beggars to preserve it...

I don't have much time for Porsche (great cars, lousy attitude, at least in the UK), but in this instance I've a lot of professional sympathy - they've been f'd over by politicians who wanted to keep their little powers/toys...

Deva Link

26,934 posts

244 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
havoc said:
I don't have much time for Porsche (great cars, lousy attitude, at least in the UK),
Maybe they are better in other countries, but in the UK Porsche and VAG deserve each other. Shame, there's whole slew of cars ruled out as there's no way would I have anything to do with VAG and reading stuff on here, and friends experiences with Porsche, they sound even worse.

pagani1

683 posts

201 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
If Porsche prefer Qatar petrodollars to VW euros it says a lot about the family that owns and runs VW.
Personally I hope all hedge fund managers go to the wall and the car makers concentrate on car making.
Porsche need a good kick up the ass-they are off course and need to look after customers who used to buy their cars until oil leaks, engine failures and piss poor warranty remedies wrecked their UK image for most enthusiasts.
See how the second hand prices of 996 and Boxsters has plummeted because consumers no longer rate their post 96 cars with their crappy interiors and jelly mould bad copies of their past successes.
Porsche need a sub £25k roadster next year or they will be dead in the water

No 1

225 posts

249 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
Can someone please explain in idiot's term, exactly what is going one with Porsche/VW? I understand that Porsche were about to by a controlling share in VW with money that they'd invested in some hedges (I pressume very fast growing hedges like hawthorn, not a beech) but because of a politcal ruling they couldn't?! Firstly, I'd like to know what exactly is a hedge fund, and secondly, I'd like to know what the ruling is that was overturned only to be replaced by an almost identical one.

It's possibly been answered above, but if it as, I can't work it out.

cramorra

1,664 posts

234 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
havoc said:
Rude-boy said:
The biter got bitten.
No, the German gov't (or at least Lower Saxony's) defied EU law (in spirit at least).

This has f'd Porsche over and left them vulnerable to VW...one might almost think that Lower Saxony like their veto over VW so much they're prepared to play silly beggars to preserve it...

I don't have much time for Porsche (great cars, lousy attitude, at least in the UK), but in this instance I've a lot of professional sympathy - they've been f'd over by politicians who wanted to keep their little powers/toys...
Lower saxony has the headquarters of VW - huge company, tax revenue, prestige
If Porsche succeds all this will go to Baden WUertemberg as Porsche will take over VW holding
Obviously they cannot say that so the team up with Unions, say it's all for jobs and workers
Another thing is that there are currently two alpha males (Piech and Wedeking) in charge which is one too many (and at least Piech- a Porsche Grandson) rather sees his family heritage go under than give in and let somebody else have control
He tried to get rid of Wedeking through the Porsche board- as the rest of the family (Wolfgang Porsche chairs this) told him to get stuffed he no tries to do it through the VW board - which he chairs...

sal430

23 posts

216 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
Like many , i am bewilldered how Porsche are in this situation , firstly they failed in their David/ Goliath takeover , no surprise there! anyone with a modecom of intelligence saw this months ago , as i did , BUT part of me didnt quite just dismiss it as absurbd , since they have been ripping of all and sundry for years now , with their so called new models! WHAT TRIPE , Porsche , change the lights and add LED'S , give a 5bhp increase!! , and you got the automative world hailing Porsche as some kinda demi-god! and just sucking up to them in their biased , paid off write-ups , that the new model is better , brakes harder , rev's freer, etc. Dont get me wrong , they do make good cars , i have a 997 turbo manual , but to say it's an all new conquering car of the 996 model , which i also had , is rubbish! Porsche, have been resting on there laurels for to long , along with the lazy , lack of vision designers they employ. Hence , they are the most profitable car manufacturer in the world!!! Tip , go back to the drawing board , create some new desingn , for f..k's! sake get away from the tilted arse design you apply to all your models , then maybe you will start winning customers back , because many , apart from a few , are seeking better value alternatives!...sorry if i have gone on , but this gave me an excuse to say , whats been on my mind for ages!!!
S

CDP

7,454 posts

253 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
pagani1 said:
Personally I hope all hedge fund managers go to the wall
Got a pension?

mas99

4,725 posts

183 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
CDP said:
pagani1 said:
Personally I hope all hedge fund managers go to the wall
Got a pension?
A hedge fund took it and ran away.

i remember

3,296 posts

185 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
hmmm this is all very confusing confused

i thought porsche had about a 50% share in vw at one point

then it was to become a merged group

now it says vw is bidding in porsche?

krazy

bobdylan

574 posts

210 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
so the law was going to change and porsche borrowed a fortune to get one over VW but the law didnt go there way so left them owing and now vw look paused to take over them ??? surely the same laws apply stopping VW buying out porsche ?
is it just me or are u also feeling some people in high places got some back handers during all this making sure things went there way

bencollins

3,486 posts

204 months

Monday 13th July 2009
quotequote all
sal430 said:
Like many , i am bewilldered how Porsche are in this situation , firstly they failed in their David/ Goliath takeover , no surprise there! anyone with a modecom of intelligence saw this months ago , as i did , BUT part of me didnt quite just dismiss it as absurbd , since they have been ripping of all and sundry for years now , with their so called new models! WHAT TRIPE , Porsche , change the lights and add LED'S , give a 5bhp increase!! , and you got the automative world hailing Porsche as some kinda demi-god! and just sucking up to them in their biased , paid off write-ups , that the new model is better , brakes harder , rev's freer, etc. Dont get me wrong , they do make good cars , i have a 997 turbo manual , but to say it's an all new conquering car of the 996 model , which i also had , is rubbish! Porsche, have been resting on there laurels for to long , along with the lazy , lack of vision designers they employ. Hence , they are the most profitable car manufacturer in the world!!! Tip , go back to the drawing board , create some new desingn , for f..k's! sake get away from the tilted arse design you apply to all your models , then maybe you will start winning customers back , because many , apart from a few , are seeking better value alternatives!...sorry if i have gone on , but this gave me an excuse to say , whats been on my mind for ages!!!
S
top rant sir smile

No 1

225 posts

249 months

Tuesday 14th July 2009
quotequote all
Can someone please explain in idiot's term, exactly what is going one with Porsche/VW? I understand that Porsche were about to by a controlling share in VW with money that they'd invested in some hedges (I pressume very fast growing hedges like hawthorn, not a beech) but because of a politcal ruling they couldn't?! Firstly, I'd like to know what exactly is a hedge fund, and secondly, I'd like to know what the ruling is that was overturned only to be replaced by an almost identical one.

It's possibly been answered above, but if it as, I can't work it out.

LukeBird

17,170 posts

208 months

Tuesday 14th July 2009
quotequote all
No 1 said:
Can someone please explain in idiot's term, exactly what is going one with Porsche/VW? I understand that Porsche were about to by a controlling share in VW with money that they'd invested in some hedges (I pressume very fast growing hedges like hawthorn, not a beech) but because of a politcal ruling they couldn't?! Firstly, I'd like to know what exactly is a hedge fund, and secondly, I'd like to know what the ruling is that was overturned only to be replaced by an almost identical one.

It's possibly been answered above, but if it as, I can't work it out.
Hedge funds explanation, basically lots of investors! smile

You are right about the latter part!