Honda Civic Type R (EP3) | Review
New hot hatch icon or noisy shopping car?
I'll no doubt be raising some hackles already amongst those loyal to rice burners, but tough - it's time to take off the rose tinted spectacles and the reversed baseball cap and recognise the car for what it truly is.
I'm not for one minute disputing that the acclaim the car has received for its chassis. It is a fine piece of work. With a wheel at each corner, a rigid bodyshell and some very sorted damping, the Type R handles superbly. Its steering is direct and at times feels deceptively quicker than the 2.7 lock to lock turns may suggest. Cross country the setup delights. The car feels very planted and it does remind the cynical amongst us that you can have fun with front wheel drive.
The interior works well with good ergonomics and extremely supportive seats although the raked windscreen and seating position did make me feel like I was driving an A Class. Interior space is generous.
The Civic can be a surprisingly harsh environment though. It's tempting to think that most modern cars are much of a muchness when it comes to interior refinement these days but it's certainly not the case. Driving at speed in the Type R does highlight a level of wind and tyre noise which is surprisingly intrusive for a modern car. Shouting at my passenger is a pastime I prefer to reserve for convertibles or arguments.
My biggest disappointment was with the engine however. 2 litres, 197bhp? It's a useful headline grabber but it doesn't help when you're overtaking the numpty with the caravan. Maximum torque is a less impressive 145lb-ft. According to Honda 130lb-ft of that is delivered from 3000 rpm upwards. Bear in mind that's not much more than what an old 2 litre Astra GTE would put out a few years ago and you'll appreciate that there's nothing mystical about the performance of the Honda engine.
Whoa! I hear the VTEC enthusiasts screaming. Screaming is what it's all about after all isn't it? Hit 6000rpm and all hell breaks loose doesn't it? Well, hit the magic number and yes, the VTEC perks into life and starts hyperventilating. You'll feel a rush, well a pleasant surge as the engine decides that it's prepared to do a bit more to earn its crust. You've passed the max torque at 5,900 rpm though and you've got the needle screaming through the remaining 2000rpm rather quickly. It red lines at 8000 with the max power at 7400rpm. Needle time in that power band is fun, difficult to prepare for in everyday driving, and ultimately, pointless.
There's my gripe really. It's a hot hatch with a superb chassis, but let's keep some sense of proportion here. It's fun to chuck about, and it can nip to sixty in a chirpy 6.4 seconds - thanks to low gearing - but it is not the complete all round package that it could be. Peugeot's hatches of recent years can still hold their head high in the company of the Type R. A car of this type needs a great chassis and a torquey engine. Power is nothing without grunt. The VTEC screams like an pre-pubescent pig.
Honda say it's a "lean, mean and focused road going race car". I say it's a noisy, nippy shopping car that handles.
The performance appears to be similar to a VR6 Corrado, I know which one I would prefer (and it ain't Japanese)
Firstly I have an S2 for relaxed roofless driving (relaxed ish) and an Accord Type-R for work/ daily purposes.......
However I would agree with the comments in the article. I test drove the Civic-R and found it lacking in X-factor, couldnt tell you what it was. But I could see why it is £7000 cheaper than the Accord, it was certainly built to a price point.
No LSD, odd gearstick position, very very square boxy feel, the flat floor didnt help.
Try the Accord Type-R now that its had some recent chasis tweeks & the kick is better when you get to VTEC at 5800 but max output isnt until 7400rpm.
Whats your problem with NOISY ??
The Type-R cars are designed without bulkhead soundproofing so its bound to be noisy.
You know what they say..... if its too loud, your too ....?
regards
I wonder where you test drove it or for how long. You failed to mention that the engine pulls quite happily from 1.5k all the way up to 8, but it only gets noisey and agressive once the VTEC kicks in at about 6. For driving around town or sitting on the motorway, you'd never go above 5... so it's quiet. The screaming is only when you're caning it, which most cars do anyway, and actually I do like it. No it doesn't sound like a V8, but it's an entirely different animal. What hot hatch does sound good? Having heard a 205 and a 172 on full chat, they're certainly not better.
Must admit that the car is much more fun after about a month (ie. more than a weekend), but maybe that's me as I thought the same with the Chim and Cerb??
I've had mine for 4 months now and am very pleased with every aspect of it. It does more than what it says on the tin; a reliable, cheap (16k), practical car that's great fun to drive, quick and fully guaranteed for 3 years! It can be as quiet or as noisy as you'd like.
See you at P2002
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/pikeynet/stuff/typer.htm
compared with normal cars that slow down at the high end of 6000 revs, the Type-r are only just getting going.
I enjoy my Accord more now, learning exactly where to change and what speeds in what gears plant you at the right point of the rev range
Have fun
quote:
In my 350i I rarely felt the need to exceed 4,000 rpm, and still made considerable progress.
The Civic Type R is the same (depending on considerable progress I suppose
) quote:
The performance appears to be similar to a VR6 Corrado
I know someone who's just sold his Corrado for one of these and thinks the R is much better in every respect. I've not driven a Corrado, but one thing's for sure - it looks a damm sight better!
quote:
I know which one I would prefer (and it ain't Japanese)
Nor is a Civic Type R - that's British - made in Swindon and (as a first ever!) is exported to Japan!!
The looks are just too ordinary for my taste, not helped by the limited colour choices. I also found that the steering lacked feel and seemed to have a bit too much assistance. Ted is right about the torque thing as well - it really doesn't want to pick up it's skirt and go unless you're prepared to keep it in that 6-8K rev band. You need to be prepared to do plenty of 'stick stirring to overtake (and don't forget you're going to fly through that 2K band if you're accelerating hard, so be prepared for a change or two in your maneouvre).
That said, it has the potential to be quite fun and not bad value for money. I can't help thinking though that a Seat Leon Cupra 20vT or MG ZS 180 might present interesting alternatives for less money.
quote:
I wonder where you test drove it or for how long. You failed to mention that the engine pulls quite happily from 1.5k all the way up to 8
- I did around 200 miles on a variety of roads.
- I do indeed mention that the torque curve is flat but all this pulling quite happily business is a bit of a giggle. It does pull in a linear manner but it's still gutless. Perhaps I'm just used to my old shed which has less power but more torque...
I agree with objective comments on 0-60 times, BHP, and Torque, but grunt ???? This may get me in to trouble but cars can be fun without a V8.
Does the Lotus Elise have grunt ? I assume your answer is no. Does the Lotus Elise deserve it's status amongst sports cars with more grunt ? - Yes it does.
As for the Peugeot hatches you prefer, which of those has "grunt" ? - None.
This is a hot hatch not a GT car and no one is claiming it is. I think you are being slightly harsh.
Ok time for my bottle of pills now me thinks :-)
Ultimately if I had to have a new Type-R it would be the Civic, I found the Accord to be too big and it just wasn't as nimble as it's name suggested. The Integra replacement isn't being sold in the UK and from what I've heard it is nothing like as good as its predecessor.
Given a choice though I would stick with the slightly older Integra (98->) as this really was the best Honda have produced at this end of the market. It may be 0.3 seconds slower to 60 and has a whole 10bhp less at peak but it pisses all over the new Civic and does a good job of showing the S2000 up as well (60bhp extra?). Those Integras are changing hands now for as little as £6000 at only 3 or 4 years old (just out of warranty, not that it was ever needed in my experience). They aren't as tunable as other rice burners as they already have a fair amount of work on them but they are amazing pieces of the automotive art (just not so hot to look at).
On the contrary, peak torque figures tell you very little about a car's capabilities when driven hard. Peak bhp/tonne is a far far more important figure.
At 60mph, while a torquey low reving car has to be in a gear with say 15mph/1000rpm, a high revving powerful car can be in a gear with 10mph/1000rpm, and hence produce more torque at the wheels from less torque at the engine. Torque at the engine doesn't make you accelerate - torque at the wheels does.
I'll stop blathering on now. I'm only jealous of your big pengises.
Tom
Engines like this are all very well and good on the track pulling light car where you can keep them boiling, but not so good IMHO, when it comes to having fun on the road.
As for comparisons, how about a Scooby Turbo, slightly heavier (1234Kg for the 5dr), so maybe not so nimble/pointy, but just as grippy, more so in the wet, low down torque and power, can be imported from Europe for the same price as the Civic, best shopping car I ever had!!
Seat Leon felt too stodgy to even compare.
Just my opinion of course.
OK, look at Clio 172's, MG ZR's, Toyota Corrola's, Ford Focus ST170... assuming UK sourced, which wins? Some will argue, especially you lot that drive the likes of the 172, but come on, can the 10's of 100's of motoring press out there be lying? NO! The CTR is fast, very fast in fact, for the money! Even against a std. Porsche Boxster it matches it performance wise. The brakes are another matter, to quote Top Gear "The best brakes ever on test"
Im not gonna argue about noise, hard ride etc.., its a Type-R, but no torque isn't and acceptable argument, it pulls better at low revs than the old Teg!
We could all spend 16K on something far more exciting, like a prostitute, or a go in a fighter plane, a 2nd hand
END OF STORY!
Alan
P.S. Who said they preferred a Escort GTi? Were u by any chance handled incorectly during birth?
Sorry, I was just making a point referring to your post, if you want Escort Gti suspension, who am I 2 criticise! Applogies again, but a hard ride is expected and that what you get, so it cant really be an "issue" with the CTR, more of a "feature"?
Alan
quote:
brand new, pound for pound, shut up boys n gals, CTR is 'da bomb!
It may be fast, but Peugeot owners may have a thing or two to say about feel and involvement, which are more important is you want to have fun, rather than just stress yourself out about being quickest off the line.
Anyway, you can get a Chimaera for 16k.
Me? I love em!
I'm not going to have a rant and rave against the critics because I cannae be arsed. However, please name a modern Pug that can compare?
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