RE: Subaru Reveals All-New Boxer Engine

RE: Subaru Reveals All-New Boxer Engine

Friday 24th September 2010

Subaru Reveals All-New Boxer Engine

New-from-the-ground-up motor will hit the streets next year



Yes, it's a picture of an engine, which is not ordinarily a cause for particular excitement, but this is the first image of Subaru's new-generation boxer engine - which will start filtering out to its road cars next year with the Forester.

A new Subaru motor is a pretty rare occurrence, too. This is only the third all-new iteration of the firm's boxer motor, the first coming in 1966 and the second with the Legacy in 1989.

The new engine will come in 2.5-litre and 2.0-litre displacements and will, says Subaru's parent company Fuji Heavy industries, improve on both the economy and performance of its forebear by around 10 per cent.

Author
Discussion

sanctum

Original Poster:

191 posts

174 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
"Yes, it's a picture of an engine, which is not ordinarily a cause for particular excitement"

And I thought I was on a petrolhead website!

GravelBen

15,652 posts

229 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
It will be interesting to see how it goes - they've gone to a longer stroke and smaller bore which I hope doesn't make the performance versions less rev-happy.

chilled901

395 posts

176 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
I hope they go with forged internals for the STI variants. The hypereuretic (sp) crap they have in the current EJ257 motors blows chunks.

Also, better fuel economy wont hurt. smile

Ninjaboy

2,525 posts

249 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
GravelBen said:
It will be interesting to see how it goes - they've gone to a longer stroke and smaller bore which I hope doesn't make the performance versions less rev-happy.
Sounds like they are still pushing for the mass market again by trying to make it more torquey, usually if they want to get more out the engine the bore goes up and the stroke down. You harly see any new impreza's on the road so i don't think its what people want.

FWDRacer

3,564 posts

223 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
I think it is great that Subaru are sticking with the boxer format. It's a proper signature for the brand and its cars. It must be more expensive to produce than an in-line four, so in this "profits are king" manufacturing environment, it is good to see.

chilled901

395 posts

176 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
FWDRacer said:
I think it is great that Subaru are sticking with the boxer format. It's a proper signature for the brand and its cars. It must be more expensive to produce than an in-line four, so in this "profits are king" manufacturing environment, it is good to see.
Quirky is the only thing still selling Subarus instead of comparable Ford/ Honda/ whatever ... that said atleast in the US, Subaru seems to have found a nice niche between quirky to keep the old school fans happy and mainstream enough to attract Camry and Accord buyers.

Negative Creep

24,942 posts

226 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
chilled901 said:
FWDRacer said:
I think it is great that Subaru are sticking with the boxer format. It's a proper signature for the brand and its cars. It must be more expensive to produce than an in-line four, so in this "profits are king" manufacturing environment, it is good to see.
Quirky is the only thing still selling Subarus instead of comparable Ford/ Honda/ whatever ... that said atleast in the US, Subaru seems to have found a nice niche between quirky to keep the old school fans happy and mainstream enough to attract Camry and Accord buyers.
They're very popular Down Under, despite their seemingly suicidal design philosophy

TheRoadWarrior

1,241 posts

177 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
Going in the FT-86 probably... if they ever make one.

bounce

chilled901

395 posts

176 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
doogz said:
TheRoadWarrior said:
Going in the FT-86 probably... if they ever make one.

bounce
I want one of them.

And i want to ditch the NA they put in it, and turbo it's ass.

Wonder if they'll become the new chav mobile of choice in 15 years
I have a sneaking suspicion, Subaru Technica International will be doing just that.

p1doc

3,111 posts

183 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
will have to wait till sti versions come out to see if any improvement-not bothered re economy as already have impreza diesel-for some reason does not get expected mpg after performance remap lol
martin

chilled901

395 posts

176 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
doogz said:
chilled901 said:
doogz said:
TheRoadWarrior said:
Going in the FT-86 probably... if they ever make one.

bounce
I want one of them.

And i want to ditch the NA they put in it, and turbo it's ass.

Wonder if they'll become the new chav mobile of choice in 15 years
I have a sneaking suspicion, Subaru Technica International will be doing just that.
It's to be badged as a Toyota, you think they'll make a "Toyota FT-86 STI"?
Thats the plan for now. If its a hit I am certain Subaru will try to rake in some of the money as well. Atleast I hope it works out like that.

Edited by chilled901 on Friday 24th September 08:40

HowardB

145 posts

174 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
Great news, there is no doubt that Subaru are well behind the development curve on emissions, an engine that delivers in a more efficient way.

Can't wait

chilled901

395 posts

176 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
hora said:
Is it me? It looks quite tall?!
I think its been shown with the exhaust headers.

cymtriks

4,560 posts

244 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
Some questions:

  • Is a boxer engine actually any lower overall? The sump looks very deep (always an issue for those who swap Subaru engines into VWs) and the intake system looks high. Everyone says that height is one of the big advantages of a boxer layout, so is it true?
  • Is there a problem fitting emissions equipment onto a boxer, it must be a bit of a squeeze just fitting an exhaust under each bank and weren't Porsche thinking of going to a V layout for exactly this reason (the rumoured V8 911)?
  • If it is no lower and emissions are harder then why bother? Does anyone really care that much? After all no one else apart from Porsche makes boxer engines for cars, Alfa and Ferrari stopped over a decade or two ago, Citroen, VW and GM (the Corvair) stopped many years before that.

trickywoo

11,700 posts

229 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
I wonder what this ones appetite for big ends will be like.

red_slr

17,122 posts

188 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
Hope they have the issues sorted as the current 2.5 engines are a no good for a Subaru, they used to be bullet proof, not anymore.

Twincharged

1,851 posts

204 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
cymtriks said:
Some questions:

  • Is a boxer engine actually any lower overall? The sump looks very deep (always an issue for those who swap Subaru engines into VWs) and the intake system looks high. Everyone says that height is one of the big advantages of a boxer layout, so is it true?
  • Is there a problem fitting emissions equipment onto a boxer, it must be a bit of a squeeze just fitting an exhaust under each bank and weren't Porsche thinking of going to a V layout for exactly this reason (the rumoured V8 911)?
  • If it is no lower and emissions are harder then why bother? Does anyone really care that much? After all no one else apart from Porsche makes boxer engines for cars, Alfa and Ferrari stopped over a decade or two ago, Citroen, VW and GM (the Corvair) stopped many years before that.
The deep bit underneath in the pic is the exhaust manifold and you can see the sensors going into it- the sump sits centrally above this. Other engines also have the exhaust routed under the sump, so they haven't raised the engine to do this.

In terms of the intake system, a lot of it is plastic/ light alloy so won't make much difference to CofG, whereas getting those cylinders and heads lower down will do. Many regular engines also have the intake over the head of the engine, and the Subaru engine will still have it's intake lower than other engines when fitted to a car I imagine.

sledge68

749 posts

196 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
hi , i have owned two Subarus in recent years and am a complete convert, the first was a legacy GTB twin turbo, which had bundles of torque alebit when the second turbo woke up, and it handled like a small car, the front felt planted which is why they stick to the boxer as all the heavy parts are lower down, wish i had never sold that car as it was excellent, however i got a new job and they would pay for any car i wanted, but it had to be diesel, now i have the new Legacy sports tourer diesel for work, which again is excellent, quite smooth economical, excellent handling and build quality, at the time i had a company choice of an A4 or BMW 3 series, the Legacy is far better looking than both and i argue better built, all the A4s have been back or broken and the 3 series are forever going wrong, not the Legacy.

I have also bought an older 54 plate Legacy 3.0 spec B sports tourer, beast in sheeps clothing!!!!!

always dislikes japanese cars and prefered italian, with a string of alfas, lancias, fiats, but this brand Subaru just have something very special so i am glad they are sticking to a boxer.

Beefmeister

16,482 posts

229 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
I know it isn't a very PH way of looking at things, but surely only improving economy and emissions by 10& is pretty piss-poor.

Given the advances BMW and VAG are making in their engines, i think someone with the might of Fuji Heavy Industries could do a little better.

Unless the economy and emissions are massively improved over the current engines, i can't see Toyota going ahead with having it in one of their cars.

y2blade

56,029 posts

214 months

Friday 24th September 2010
quotequote all
hora said:
red_slr said:
Hope they have the issues sorted as the current 2.5 engines are a no good for a Subaru, they used to be bullet proof, not anymore.
You mean the HG's?
you mean Big End's?