Tuesday 28th September 2010

Spyker: Yes, We Do Want BMW Engines For Saab

Saab's parent company confirms negotiations with BMW over engine deal

---

Spyker has confirmed that recent suggestions in the media that its newly acquired Swedish luxury car maker (that's Saab, by the way) is chatting to BMW about using the German brand's engines are true.

There's nothing like a spot of feverish media speculation to worm a statement out of a company before it's truly ready, and Spyker has had to move to confirm rumours that Saab's next generation of car's could use motive power provided by BMW.

"Spyker Cars N.V. ("the Group"), a holding company that owns subsidiaries which produce and sell premium automobiles under the Saab and Spyker brands, has noted recent press speculation about the possible supply relationship with BMW," said a Spyker statement. "The Group confirms that talks are ongoing and will give further details once a final agreement has been reached."

A deal could even be reached as early as the end of this week, according to US financial publication Bloomberg.

And although Spyker's statement pointedly refuse to comment on any specifics about the potential BMW deal, Bloomberg reckons that the next 9-3, due out in 2012, could be the first beneficiary of a Bavarian heart transplant.

Meanwhile - quite possibly because it's fun to escalate these sorts of rumours whenever possible, Bloomberg's anonymous source also suggests that the Mini Countryman platform might be bought in to underpin a '9-2' supermini.

[H141RUJ]

As a long term Saaber, this is probably not a bad thing - as long as the Turbo remains. With a bit of luck, this will be the beginning of the end of the GM influence which ruined the brand and will give Saab the opportunity to put sone serious grunt back into their motors which has been sadly lacking for so long. It would be nice to see a 3.5 Saab V6 Saab Turbo or even a V8 turbo - though fairly unlikely, but a better diesel engine and a decent 2.5 V6 for a change would be a breath of fresh air.
It will be interesting to see how they're going to keep the car front wheel drive, with the sideways mounted engine layout.
As for a Mini based 9-2.... who would want one? I'd rather have the Mini!

[900T-R]

I wouldn't bank on a V6 from BMW... The 9-5 could do with some more competitive (in terms of refinement and fuel efficiency/emissions mostly) diesels, the BMW 4 cylinder (now also engineered for transverse FWD application as in the Mini) would do nicely in 2.0 litre guise for starters.

[CraigyMc]

900T-R said:

I wouldn't bank on a V6 from BMW... The 9-5 could do with some more competitive (in terms of refinement and fuel efficiency/emissions mostly) diesels, the BMW 4 cylinder (now also engineered for transverse FWD application as in the Mini) would do nicely in 2.0 litre guise for starters.

I was thinking this too. I'd be surprised if it's not the 1.6 turbo petrol from the mini, and the 4-pot diesels. BMW do pretty good engines - they keep winning International Engine of the Year awards with them.

I can't imagine Saab wanting to move at this point to an inline 6 engine with all the packaging problems that brings. V8? possibly, but very unlikely imo, for the same reason.

C

[dave stew]

Maybe do an Audi and put an in line six in to drive the front wheels?

[CraigyMc]

dave stew said:

Maybe do an Audi and put an in line six in to drive the front wheels?

When did Audi do that?

C

[Rusty-C]

CraigyMc said:

900T-R said:

I wouldn't bank on a V6 from BMW... The 9-5 could do with some more competitive (in terms of refinement and fuel efficiency/emissions mostly) diesels, the BMW 4 cylinder (now also engineered for transverse FWD application as in the Mini) would do nicely in 2.0 litre guise for starters.

I was thinking this too. I'd be surprised if it's not the 1.6 turbo petrol from the mini, and the 4-pot diesels. BMW do pretty good engines - they keep winning International Engine of the Year awards with them.

I can't imagine Saab wanting to move at this point to an inline 6 engine with all the packaging problems that brings. V8? possibly, but very unlikely imo, for the same reason.

C

Maybe they'll turn rear-wheel-drive... Now that would be interesting.

[buggalugs]

CraigyMc said:

dave stew said:

Maybe do an Audi and put an in line six in to drive the front wheels?

When did Audi do that?

C

They had some longditudinaly mounted straight-5's doing front wheel drive, a straight 6 might be a bit much though. Surely you'd have the engine sticking out the front and the front wheels back by the drivers feet.

[900T-R]

buggalugs said:

They had some longditudinaly mounted straight-5's doing front wheel drive, a straight 6 might be a bit much though. Surely you'd have the engine sticking out the front and the front wheels back by the drivers feet.

The five inline already necessitated the radiator being placed next to the engine, instead of in front of it (at least that was the case in a friend's RS2...).

[fathomfive]

Rusty-C said:

CraigyMc said:

900T-R said:

I wouldn't bank on a V6 from BMW... The 9-5 could do with some more competitive (in terms of refinement and fuel efficiency/emissions mostly) diesels, the BMW 4 cylinder (now also engineered for transverse FWD application as in the Mini) would do nicely in 2.0 litre guise for starters.

I was thinking this too. I'd be surprised if it's not the 1.6 turbo petrol from the mini, and the 4-pot diesels. BMW do pretty good engines - they keep winning International Engine of the Year awards with them.

I can't imagine Saab wanting to move at this point to an inline 6 engine with all the packaging problems that brings. V8? possibly, but very unlikely imo, for the same reason.

C

Maybe they'll turn rear-wheel-drive... Now that would be interesting.

The new 9-5 is based on the Insignia platform (or a version of it) isn't it? And that platform already exists in 4wd form, so it shouldn't be beyond the bounds of possibility to leave the front drivehsafts out

Edited for speeling.

Edited by fathomfive on Tuesday 28th September 08:34

[chickensoup]

I would assume that this is mini engines. Either making BMW engines transverse, maded to a FWD gearbox, or making Saab rear wheel drive would seem excessively complicated

[Greenwich Ross]

How about slinging the engine in the back?

[900T-R]

Nice as long as you leave the one in the front as well.

[andymadmak]

Not a problem to mount the 4 pots transversely. - The diesel was mounted that way in the R75.
Sixes might be more of a challenge though. Although transverse inline 6 installations are not unknown

[Alfanatic]

Are they sure it's talks about engines for Saabs? Might it instead be a replacement engine in the Spykers? They might be looking for a replacement for the Audi V8.

[J4CKO]

I dont want no crappy BMW lump in my Saab !

Give me a warmed over Vectra engine or something from a 1960's Triumph

[AV12]

BMW are among the top engine builders. This will do SAAB the world of good if it is to rise above the GM dross. I would think older platforms would be the next step.

Edited by AV12 on Tuesday 28th September 10:13

[900T-R]

J4CKO said:

I dont want no crappy BMW lump in my Saab !

Give me a warmed over Vectra engine or something from a 1960's Triumph

If EU driving cycle emissions weren't an issue I'd take the proper old Saab engine any day of the week (never mind that the last bits of Triumph/Ricardo heritage were dispensed with as early as 1972 ) - fabulously overengineered lumps, especially the B234R that could handle twice the power of the headiest OE state of tuner, without swapping internals...

[J4CKO]

900T-R said:

J4CKO said:

I dont want no crappy BMW lump in my Saab !

Give me a warmed over Vectra engine or something from a 1960's Triumph

If EU driving cycle emissions weren't an issue I'd take the proper old Saab engine any day of the week (never mind that the last bits of Triumph/Ricardo heritage were dispensed with as early as 1972 ) - fabulously overengineered lumps, especially the B234R that could handle twice the power of the headiest OE state of tuner, without swapping internals...

I agree, I only had one and it was an LPT 150 bhp, god that thing shifted, it was a 9-3 "Club Sport" (dead basic, no aircon) and it would match a Civic Type are and Cooper S's, I went to buy a Clio 182 to replace it and it felt so flat in comparison, bought a new style (SS) 9-3 Aero and that felt no faster with 210 bhp until I got it mapped by BSR. I thought its headgasket had gone as was using water, found out about a reacall due to head bolts undoing themselves, retorqued and of it went again, another 20,000 with no problems and sold it on, very impressive unit, would love to try a fiddled with 2.3 full turbo, would have to be in a 9-5 as the 9-3 chassis just wasnt up to the 150 bhp as it was.

I could have had a 2.0 N/A with aircon, tried both and the N/A one was utterly limp, preffered being baked in summer such was the difference, night and day even though on paper it was only about 15/20 bhp, felt like 50/100 more.

[Agoogy]

CAR were suggesting Jag was to purchase BMW engines too....for the new 3-series rival... looks like BMW have found the way to continue their profitable business despite near saturation of the roads with their own cars....

[Denorth]

for some reason I recalled Rover 75 and the story about that car being FrontWD and powered by BMW. It's not with us anymore. Not that I miss it (although many said it was a decent designed and built car), but I wouldn't want to see this happen to SAAB

Edited by Denorth on Tuesday 28th September 10:13