RE: Senna Signs With Lotus
Tuesday 1st February 2011
The new Lotus-Renault F1 team (that's the one that used to be Renault, by the way, not the other one) has signed up Bruno Senna, meaning that once again a black-and-gold Lotus will be piloted by a man bearing the famous Brazilian surname.
Senna Signs With Lotus
No, it's not 1985, but a man named Senna will drive a Renault-powered Lotus F1 car. In black and gold...
But before you get too excited, the nephew of the late, great three-times F1 world champion Ayrton Senna is unlikely to be taking the new-age Lotus to the top step of the podium - he's only been enlisted as reserve driver for 2011.
Still, it is a neat nostalgic tie-in - Ayrton was the last man to take the original Lotus F1 team to a win, back in 1987.
It's also probably a good move for Bruno Senna, too - his first season at the struggling Hispania Racing team was distinctly patchy.
"It's a really exciting opportunity from both Group Lotus and Lotus Renault GP," said Senna. "To be able to develop my Formula One career within a World Championship winning organisation and to do so in conjunction with some hugely interesting work for such an iconic sports car company as Lotus is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Lotus has placed a great deal of faith in me and I am looking forward to beginning work on the technical side of our relationship."
Discussion
No, he has signed with Renault in a Lotus road car sponsored Renault, if he had signed with Lotus he would be in a green and yellow car.
ETA: I fixed your story for you
ETA: I fixed your story for you
PH Article said:
The new Lotus-Renault F1 team (that's the one that used to be Renault, by the way, not the other one) has signed up Bruno Senna, meaning that for the first time ever a black-and-gold Renault will be piloted by a man bearing the famous Brazilian surname.
But before you get too excited, the nephew of the late, great three-times F1 world champion Ayrton Senna is unlikely to be taking the new-age Renault with a Lotus sponsor to the top step of the podium - he's only been enlisted as reserve driver for 2011.
Still, it is a not really a nostalgic tie-in - Ayrton was the last man to take the original Lotus F1 team to a win, back in 1987, this of course has nothing what so ever to do with the Renault team, apart from the car has been hideously painted to resemble a Lotus, even though it is a Renault
It's also probably a good move for Bruno Senna, too - his first season at the struggling Hispania Racing team was distinctly patchy.
"It's a really exciting opportunity from both Group Lotus and Lotus Renault GP," said Senna. "To be able to develop my Formula One career within a World Championship winning organisation and to do so in conjunction with some hugely interesting work for such an iconic sports car company as Lotus is a once in a lifetime opportunity, as that is what Lotus are, a sports car company, they have no relation to Team Lotus the F1 racing team. LotusRenault has placed a great deal of faith in me and I am looking forward to beginning work on the technical side of our relationship."
But before you get too excited, the nephew of the late, great three-times F1 world champion Ayrton Senna is unlikely to be taking the new-age Renault with a Lotus sponsor to the top step of the podium - he's only been enlisted as reserve driver for 2011.
Still, it is a not really a nostalgic tie-in - Ayrton was the last man to take the original Lotus F1 team to a win, back in 1987, this of course has nothing what so ever to do with the Renault team, apart from the car has been hideously painted to resemble a Lotus, even though it is a Renault
It's also probably a good move for Bruno Senna, too - his first season at the struggling Hispania Racing team was distinctly patchy.
"It's a really exciting opportunity from both Group Lotus and Lotus Renault GP," said Senna. "To be able to develop my Formula One career within a World Championship winning organisation and to do so in conjunction with some hugely interesting work for such an iconic sports car company as Lotus is a once in a lifetime opportunity, as that is what Lotus are, a sports car company, they have no relation to Team Lotus the F1 racing team.
Edited by pits on Tuesday 1st February 10:41
pits said:
If he had signed with Lotus he would be in a green and yellow car.
I think you mean to same Team Lotus. The green and yellow cars cannot be called "Lotus" because they have no rights to that name.By the way, is no one commenting on Senna signing with the team who sacked him and he then had legal wranglings with over the Crashgate affair? All forgiven on both sides I'm assuming.
AllNines said:
Oh don't be such a numpty. 
To be fair to him, I think he has a point.Neither of the Lotus teams are really the old lotus team, but the Mike Gascgoine-based effort is closer to Lotus of old than the rebranded Renault one, in my opinion.
It is at least based in Norfolk, using local staff, run by a technical guru-in-chief. They run the lotus racing badge because of the tie-in with the family.
The Renault team is still based in Enstone with loads of the same staff since the Benetton days. It's the team of Schumacher and Alonso. No history with Lotus either, but has a different structure to how Lotus ran their stuff. They run the badge because of the sponsorship agreement from Dany Bahar's Lotus Cars company.
It's a shame that there's so much acrimony about, as opposed to people being happy about 4 Lotus-renaults on the grid.
C
Hendry said:
I think you mean to same Team Lotus. The green and yellow cars cannot be called "Lotus" because they have no rights to that name.
By the way, is no one commenting on Senna signing with the team who sacked him and he then had legal wranglings with over the Crashgate affair? All forgiven on both sides I'm assuming.
I believe they are the only one with the rights to that name as they leased it for 5 years, hence the huge court battle which will be heard in February, they are sueing Lotus (Hethel Lotus that is :-) ) for breach of contractBy the way, is no one commenting on Senna signing with the team who sacked him and he then had legal wranglings with over the Crashgate affair? All forgiven on both sides I'm assuming.
CraigyMc said:
Hendry said:
By the way, is no one commenting on Senna signing with the team who sacked him and he then had legal wranglings with over the Crashgate affair? All forgiven on both sides I'm assuming.
I could be way off base here, but aren't you talking about Nelsinho Piquet?C
RichB said:
as far I can see no one has remarked that Bruno Senna is only a reserve driver this year. Seems his career isn't taking off the way some people expected?
With really limited testing, I'm not surprised at the lack of "wow" factor from lots of the new drivers. Bruno had just as rough a ride as Karun Chandhok - they are both pretty handy but driving for HRT as a "way into F1" is a mistake in my opinion. No way are you going to impress people...I'd quite like to see testing arrangements, but only for non-race-drivers and only for a year (that is, someone like Paul Di Resta last year should have been able to do as many miles as he liked, to get up to speed with the pack). Yes, this means teams like Ferrari do a zillion laps of Mugello with someone new each year.
Get some new blood in, and make the existing drivers a lot less comfortable.
C
CraigyMc said:
To be fair to him, I think he has a point.
Neither of the Lotus teams are really the old lotus team.
This is true but Lotus (the car company, of which I am a fan) are buying into Renault and Genii Capital (which most folk seem to miss - this will have a huge benefit to Group Lotus). The article reads as though Senna will be a test driver for the F1 team (which I for one will call Lotus Renault) and also for the car company. Failrly straight forward.Neither of the Lotus teams are really the old lotus team.
Much as I admired last year's Lotus Racing outfit, I don't see them as Lotus and don't see why they are so obsessed with using that name anyway. (And it's only that, a name - not the old racing team at all.)
Good luck to Senna though, at least he's got himself some work.
You just can't call it a Lotus car powered by a Renault engine; it's a Renault car sponsored by Lotus. Jenson and Lewis aren't driving a Vodafone, Alonso and Massa are not driving a Marlboro and Glock and D'Ambrosio will not be referred to as driving a Marussia this season.
Team Lotus' official team name on the entry list is "Lotus Renault" and Renault's official entry is just "Renault". It's completely inaccurate to say call this team "Lotus", regardless of who deserves what name.
"Senna Signs With Renault" is the only accurate title.
ETA: It will be great come the first race, because the TV coverage shows constructor and engine supplier. So Group Lotus/Renault will be "Renault" and Team Lotus will show up as "Lotus Renault". Quite amusing.
Team Lotus' official team name on the entry list is "Lotus Renault" and Renault's official entry is just "Renault". It's completely inaccurate to say call this team "Lotus", regardless of who deserves what name.
"Senna Signs With Renault" is the only accurate title.
ETA: It will be great come the first race, because the TV coverage shows constructor and engine supplier. So Group Lotus/Renault will be "Renault" and Team Lotus will show up as "Lotus Renault". Quite amusing.
Edited by MSTRBKR on Tuesday 1st February 11:17
This is pure attention whoring from Renault and Bruno, articles like this is exactly what they were after - nostalgic gushing because he happens to share a surname and some DNA with a rather good racing driver who happened to drive a similarly named car and is beatified because he died racing.
IMHO the Senna name is a bit of a double edged sword, there is no denying it's helped Bruno massively in getting this far but now that he has made it to F1 people are going to start expecting him to produce the same sort of results as Ayrton.
Now I'm certainly not subscriber to the "best ever" theory about his uncle but he was definately one of the elite of his generation and that can be a tough marker to live up to (ask Nelson Piquet Jr.). Sooner or later though he's going to have to step up to the plate and make a name for himself or he'll never be taken seriously.
To be honest we don't really know how good (or not) he is as it's difficult to judge him based on last year, HRT had an evil-handling car by all accounts and the team were pretty chaotic as well and I don't think it's fair to properly benchmark any rookie in that sort of environment. Is this the right move for this year? Maybe not, if in-season testing was still in place I'd say it would have been a fantastic move but under the current regs he's just a garage ornament - still it does the job of keeping his name in the papers and in everyone's minds and if he couldn't get a non-HRT seat for this year then maybe that's the best he could hope for.
IMHO the Senna name is a bit of a double edged sword, there is no denying it's helped Bruno massively in getting this far but now that he has made it to F1 people are going to start expecting him to produce the same sort of results as Ayrton.
Now I'm certainly not subscriber to the "best ever" theory about his uncle but he was definately one of the elite of his generation and that can be a tough marker to live up to (ask Nelson Piquet Jr.). Sooner or later though he's going to have to step up to the plate and make a name for himself or he'll never be taken seriously.
To be honest we don't really know how good (or not) he is as it's difficult to judge him based on last year, HRT had an evil-handling car by all accounts and the team were pretty chaotic as well and I don't think it's fair to properly benchmark any rookie in that sort of environment. Is this the right move for this year? Maybe not, if in-season testing was still in place I'd say it would have been a fantastic move but under the current regs he's just a garage ornament - still it does the job of keeping his name in the papers and in everyone's minds and if he couldn't get a non-HRT seat for this year then maybe that's the best he could hope for.
Hendry said:
I think you mean to same Team Lotus. The green and yellow cars cannot be called "Lotus" because they have no rights to that name.
Team Lotus are entitled to use the name "Team Lotus" as they legitimately acquired the name from David Hunt. If you read David Hunts side to the story, Group Lotus/Proton were given ample opportunity to do the same but chose not to. There was talk of a "gentlemans agreement" with the Chapman family and Tony Fernandes not to use the name in future, but this only came to light in December after a meeting with Group Lotus and Classic Team Lotus/the Chapman family as to who their support lies. Expect an announcement sometime soon about a new Classic Team Lotus heritage centre being built as part of the new pit complex at Hethel......Funny how the politics work in motorsport isn't it.
Hendry said:
pits said:
If he had signed with Lotus he would be in a green and yellow car.
I think you mean to same Team Lotus. The green and yellow cars cannot be called "Lotus" because they have no rights to that name.By the way, is no one commenting on Senna signing with the team who sacked him and he then had legal wranglings with over the Crashgate affair? All forgiven on both sides I'm assuming.
Yes, good old Bruno Senna and his dad Nelsinho Piquet snr, will be good to see Bruno racing trucks this year.But Lotus don't own any of the car at all, they just sponsor it, the car is a Renault with a Lotus badge on the front that is it, and in a black a gold paint job which has just been described as a chocolate bar wrapper and nothing like the original Team Lotus car, which was actually a Lotus, built by a Forumla 1 team called Team Lotus, not Renault.
Group Lotus are just trying to flog a lookalike dead horse.
Seriously, the title of this needs to be changed to Senna signs with Renault as it is a bulls
t story that he has signed with Lotus when Lotus don't even own the car he is maybe going to drive when Renault decide they have had enough of one of their drivers mid season and just replace them.MSTRBKR said:
You just can't call it a Lotus car powered by a Renault engine; it's a Renault car sponsored by Lotus. Jenson and Lewis aren't driving a Vodafone, Alonso and Massa are not driving a Marlboro and Glock and D'Ambrosio will not be referred to as driving a Marussia this season.
Team Lotus' official team name on the entry list is "Lotus Renault" and Renault's official entry is just "Renault". It's completely inaccurate to say call this team "Lotus", regardless of who deserves what name.
"Senna Signs With Renault" is the only accurate title.
ETA: It will be great come the first race, because the TV coverage shows constructor and engine supplier. So Group Lotus/Renault will be "Renault" and Team Lotus will show up as "Lotus Renault". Quite amusing.
Accurate is it? How much of the team does Renault own wise one? Would that be 0%? Team Lotus' official team name on the entry list is "Lotus Renault" and Renault's official entry is just "Renault". It's completely inaccurate to say call this team "Lotus", regardless of who deserves what name.
"Senna Signs With Renault" is the only accurate title.
ETA: It will be great come the first race, because the TV coverage shows constructor and engine supplier. So Group Lotus/Renault will be "Renault" and Team Lotus will show up as "Lotus Renault". Quite amusing.
Edited by MSTRBKR on Tuesday 1st February 11:17
So it's okay to call it a Renault because IN THE PAST the Enstone team had investment from Renault, but not okay to call it Lotus now they have investment from them. If you want to talk semantics and vodaphone this and Mclaren that I will do so but if we are really calling F1 teams by who their majority owners are rather than the name they choose then lets call it the Genii team. Since Genii own the team. Not Renault. While were at it for many years we should have been calling Mclaren "Dennis". And since were so hung up on the ownership question the red cars really should be called "Fiat". Maybe we should also be calling Schumachers car "Honda", after all two years ago Honda were involved in the team, much like Renault were at Enstone two years ago.
It's true the chassis is still registered as Renault, but that is because they permission to change it and still get their money from last year. That's not something they will get while the court case is going. This is also part of the agreement with Renault so be their preferred team to supply engines and at the right price. Expect this to change for next year if all goes well.
To conclude, Renault has no stake, investment or direct involvement with the team other than engine supply. If you want to be a pedant, call it Genii.
Oh and 1Malaysia are not Lotus, never will be Lotus, have nothing to do with Lotus, don't have the support of Chapmans family and race under Malaysian colours. Yah boo sucks TF fans.
cathalm said:
Stuff
I agree with some of the stuff about ownership and such, but the car is officially built by Renault. It is a Renault car and has little to do with Group Lotus aside from sponsorship.I will add this as well.
"A blunt talking Robert Kubica spoke on the subject at the Renault launch yesterday. Asked if was his dream to drive for Lotus, Kubica replied: "I think Lotus is our sponsor. At least from what I know it is a sponsor. So I could also say it is my dream to drive for Total. I think it would be different if Lotus owned the team and were fully involved into the team."
From the driver himself. It's a chuffing Renault!
Edited by MSTRBKR on Tuesday 1st February 12:25
"To be able to develop my Formula One career within a World Championship winning organisation"
Wasn't the last Lotus world champion Andretti in the 70's? It's a bit like Torres signing for Championship winning Tottenham because they won the league in the 60's.
Sorry Spurs fans, just an example. How much of that World Championship winning know how is still left at Lotus?
Wasn't the last Lotus world champion Andretti in the 70's? It's a bit like Torres signing for Championship winning Tottenham because they won the league in the 60's.
Sorry Spurs fans, just an example. How much of that World Championship winning know how is still left at Lotus?
It's a very complicated system, Lotus Racing (Fernandes) DO own the rights to the name "Team Lotus"... Group Lotus plc have a more tenible link to the original F1 team having been started by Colin Chapman but NEITHER can claim the history.
Imho, Group Lotus's buy in to the Renault team is just a pissing contest, according to statements made, Fernandes DID contact Behr about forming an allience between Group Lotus & Lotus Racing however Behr wanted to put the Group Lotus name on a team that'd be able to fight for wins rather than a newer team that will need development time. It's a shame because both Loti coming together would've been good to see but thats the way the cookie crumbles. We'll have to wait til Feb/March when the case gets heard in court
Imho, Group Lotus's buy in to the Renault team is just a pissing contest, according to statements made, Fernandes DID contact Behr about forming an allience between Group Lotus & Lotus Racing however Behr wanted to put the Group Lotus name on a team that'd be able to fight for wins rather than a newer team that will need development time. It's a shame because both Loti coming together would've been good to see but thats the way the cookie crumbles. We'll have to wait til Feb/March when the case gets heard in court
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