RE: Gran Turismo: 15 years of geekery
Friday 17th May 2013
If you’d told Kazunori Yamauchi 15 years after the release of the original Gran Turismo that he’d have a multi-million dollar phenomenon with such power to actually help engineer cars and develop racing drivers, he’d have laughed at you.
GT Academy made the virtual realIt’s not that Yamauchi, the game’s creator, isn’t ambitious – far from it – but he never expected it would come this far. In partnership with Nissan, launching the GT Academy in 2008 to find the best gamers and take them to frontline motorsport, Gran Turismo has spawned a new breed of racing driver.
GT Academy aims to "democratise motorsport"Cox elaborates: “The practice is genuinely transferable to the track, though, as we’ve shown. These guys have a determination to win, you have to be ultra competitive to win the Academy – so they’re already cut out to be racers mentally – and learning is part of that process.
Ordonez achieved LMP2 podium at Le MansYou can ‘learn’ to drive a car on Gran Turismo, but you don’t get the nuances and minute levels of detail that the real thing provides. Comparing a virtual Nissan GT-R around Silverstone on the new GT6 demo to the real thing, it’s patently obvious that the game is more realistic than ever, but there’s still no comparison to the rush of revs and the physicality required to pedal even a road car round a circuit.
G loading is key difference, says MardenboroughThe upshot is as driving becomes more digital and computers are able to map movements in a more sophisticated way, the game is now more realistic than ever. According to Jann Mardenborough, the area where the simulation is closest to real life driving is how the car moves around and yaws when it loses grip, as well as the amount of steering input you need to change direction. The weaknesses, though: “There’s no g loading. You don’t get that feeling through your backside like you do in a real car.”
Kazunori-san's helped with latest iterationIt’s given Nissan a successful driver training programme, too. In such a relatively short space of time (we’re talking months, not years plugging away in karting and junior formulae) the GT Academy graduates are on the pace of bona fide sports car aces, and it’s cost Nissan next to nothing to establish.
Gran Turismo: 15 years of geekery
As the boundaries between real and virtual grow ever more blurry PH talks gaming with Mr Gran Turismo
GT Academy made the virtual real
The programme has been vindicated, too, through the success of its products. Original winner Lucas Ordonez stood on the LMP2 podium on his debut at Le Mans, while subsequent winners Jordan Tresson and Jann Mardenborough have both experienced success in GT racing. But just how has Gran Turismo turned bedroom-bound video gaming geeks into real racers?
Nissan’s global motorsport director Darren Cox clarifies: “You hear about the 10,000 hours of practice needed to be a pro in any discipline from people like Dave Brailsford, the boss of Sky cycling – these guys have done 10,000 hours’ practice on the game before they even get to GT Academy.” But while practice is good, relentlessly hacking round a digital world without focus can mean you don’t actually learn or go faster.
GT Academy aims to "democratise motorsport"
“The guys’ ability to learn is one of the GT Academy drivers’ strengths. They’re like sponges – they just absorb all the information they get from the engineers and use it to go faster. It’s a skill learnt from the game.”
The series has helped Nissan, too. Over half the field at Le Mans this year will use Nissan engines, but the firm’s motorsport programme was born out of GT Academy. “You need a reason to go racing, to connect with the customers somehow. GT Academy gives us that”, reckons Cox.
Ordonez achieved LMP2 podium at Le Mans
The question of whether driving is becoming more digital, or if gaming is becoming more like the real thing is a difficult topic. Cox believes Nissan is “all about digital performance”, but Kazunori-san points out that the future of the GT series lies in ‘edge effects’ – blurring the virtual with reality. So it appears the two worlds are converging. Just look at F1 simulators now to see where the game is heading in the next 15 years. The full immersive experience of GT 3D? Kazunori hasn’t ruled it out.
G loading is key difference, says Mardenborough
The real benefit is its accessibility. “We’re democratising motorsport”, reckons Cox. “GT Academy has provided bedroom gamers with a cheap opportunity to get into top-level racing.”
Kazunori-san's helped with latest iteration
“We made lots of discoveries about how a car reacts using sensors when I was racing the N24,” says Kazunori. “After my first time racing I wanted to share the experience with everyone. That’s why we’ve translated these developments into Gran Turismo. That’s why it is like it is.”
There’s no doubt GT6 is an improvement – even in demo form – but it’s still no match for the real thing.
Discussion
t. Literally.I must say I found GT5 to be nothing but a disappointment.
After all those years of delays and work, the cars sounded utterly crap (a big thing for me), there's too much of the exciting content shifted behind a pay-wall of "upgrade packs" and nowhere near enough real-world tracks. The menu system is still far too clunky, especially coupled with loading between screens (really, on a device as capable as a PS3?).
That's before we get to the ridiculous-sized updates. Every time I get a hankering to play it's hours of downloads before I can.
After all those years of delays and work, the cars sounded utterly crap (a big thing for me), there's too much of the exciting content shifted behind a pay-wall of "upgrade packs" and nowhere near enough real-world tracks. The menu system is still far too clunky, especially coupled with loading between screens (really, on a device as capable as a PS3?).
That's before we get to the ridiculous-sized updates. Every time I get a hankering to play it's hours of downloads before I can.
Krikkit said:
I must say I found GT5 to be nothing but a disappointment.
After all those years of delays and work, the cars sounded utterly crap (a big thing for me), there's too much of the exciting content shifted behind a pay-wall of "upgrade packs" and nowhere near enough real-world tracks. The menu system is still far too clunky, especially coupled with loading between screens (really, on a device as capable as a PS3?).
That's before we get to the ridiculous-sized updates. Every time I get a hankering to play it's hours of downloads before I can.
Exactly my sentiments.After all those years of delays and work, the cars sounded utterly crap (a big thing for me), there's too much of the exciting content shifted behind a pay-wall of "upgrade packs" and nowhere near enough real-world tracks. The menu system is still far too clunky, especially coupled with loading between screens (really, on a device as capable as a PS3?).
That's before we get to the ridiculous-sized updates. Every time I get a hankering to play it's hours of downloads before I can.
Sorry but I used to be a GT fan, but 5 ruined it, all that delayed and all the things they should have spent time on wasn't fixed. All cars sound like hedge trimmers (Do they not understand that the aural sensation of a car is half the experience!), you can go in a RWD car and over steer seems to be linked to revs, not actual speed or grip.
Forza is the way forwards now, literally cannot wait for Forza 5 on the new Xbox, if GT6 comes out with the PS4 I will get it, but my expectations are pretty low. Forza has the biggest task, because after 3 & 4 my expectations are massive.
Forza is the way forwards now, literally cannot wait for Forza 5 on the new Xbox, if GT6 comes out with the PS4 I will get it, but my expectations are pretty low. Forza has the biggest task, because after 3 & 4 my expectations are massive.
For a mainstream game GT5 does a great job. If you really want to learn about track racing, PC simulators are much more advanced. You can really learn about car setup and behaviour. I prefer to drive NetKar pro over GT5, despite being over 6 years old.
The soon to be released title from the same developers as NetKar has a tech demo available that is the best simulator driving experience I have used: http://www.assettocorsa.net/en/
Simulators clearly translate to the real world as demonstrated by all of the F1 teams.
The soon to be released title from the same developers as NetKar has a tech demo available that is the best simulator driving experience I have used: http://www.assettocorsa.net/en/
Simulators clearly translate to the real world as demonstrated by all of the F1 teams.
richb77 said:
Krikkit said:
I must say I found GT5 to be nothing but a disappointment.
After all those years of delays and work, the cars sounded utterly crap (a big thing for me), there's too much of the exciting content shifted behind a pay-wall of "upgrade packs" and nowhere near enough real-world tracks. The menu system is still far too clunky, especially coupled with loading between screens (really, on a device as capable as a PS3?).
That's before we get to the ridiculous-sized updates. Every time I get a hankering to play it's hours of downloads before I can.
Exactly my sentiments.After all those years of delays and work, the cars sounded utterly crap (a big thing for me), there's too much of the exciting content shifted behind a pay-wall of "upgrade packs" and nowhere near enough real-world tracks. The menu system is still far too clunky, especially coupled with loading between screens (really, on a device as capable as a PS3?).
That's before we get to the ridiculous-sized updates. Every time I get a hankering to play it's hours of downloads before I can.
In comparison, the sound effects in Forza 4 are brilliant, very immersive and LOUD!
But the Forza series push too deep into the 'arcade' feeling of the game, you can be a hero in any car and take wild liberties.
GT offers the better car-control experience especially coupled with a decent geeky steering wheel setup.
Edited to add - the brakes! Absolutely criminal not to include a brake package upgrade option. Bad decision.
Edited by CocoUK on Friday 17th May 12:31
I don't buy the whole Gran Turismo part of the GT academy.
I'd say if you stood on the street, and anybody who said "yes" to "do you watch motorsport" and "do you want to be in the Nissan Academy" until you had the same number of entrants, then put them into the rest of the selection process you'd get the same results. It's just a numbers game.
That's not to say the winners are not great drivers. But really the 1st stage is just random selection of people from motorsport fans done by using GT4.
I'd say if you stood on the street, and anybody who said "yes" to "do you watch motorsport" and "do you want to be in the Nissan Academy" until you had the same number of entrants, then put them into the rest of the selection process you'd get the same results. It's just a numbers game.
That's not to say the winners are not great drivers. But really the 1st stage is just random selection of people from motorsport fans done by using GT4.
Just to add - I have very much enjoyed the Gran Turismo series throughout.
I have good memories of GT2 racing against my mates and playing far too much GT4 when it was released, I felt fairly terrible the following morning, a GT hangover?
I guess thinking about it i'm now looking forward to the next release. Farty exhausts included!
I have good memories of GT2 racing against my mates and playing far too much GT4 when it was released, I felt fairly terrible the following morning, a GT hangover?
I guess thinking about it i'm now looking forward to the next release. Farty exhausts included!
CocoUK said:
But the Forza series push too deep into the 'arcade' feeling of the game, you can be a hero in any car and take wild liberties.
GT offers the better car-control experience especially coupled with a decent geeky steering wheel setup.
Bingo. Without a wheel, GT5 is pretty pointless, you may as well use Forza as then you can be the drift God you know you are instantly and everything is like in Fast & Furious.GT offers the better car-control experience especially coupled with a decent geeky steering wheel setup.
It is much more fun, but there's no depth to the handling, especially as you can't use a proper wheel with it. The couple of wheels that are available are then hampered by the force feedback implementation. Instead of feedback based on what the car is doing, and forces through the steering column, you get whichever one of the 10 or so pre-programmed force feedback movements is a reasonable match (that could be internet nonsense to be fair, I've not used a wheel with it).
Equally, having never played a Forza until Forza 3, I played it for a few hours, bought the Monaro I wanted to try out, tuned it to ludicrous amounts of power, and it was still dull feeling.
The Gran Turismo games have always had a great feel to the handling (although I didn't like GT2 to be fair) and it's this depth and learning curve that kept me coming back. It is so much more rewarding because it takes a while to get good at it, and remains challenging enough to be worthwhile.
Live For Speed on the PC has the best handling I've experienced though, that game drives brilliantly.
Have you tried Project CARS? Excellent game/sim.
The last racing game that I really loved on a joypad was PGR4 on the 360 - I seem to remember a challenge-type race where it was a timetrial around the snowy Nurburgring in a 250F. Not only was the engine sound absolutely magnificent, but the lairy oversteer made me chuckle all the way round.
Since then I've had a wheel, but not tried the latest Forza etc.
The last racing game that I really loved on a joypad was PGR4 on the 360 - I seem to remember a challenge-type race where it was a timetrial around the snowy Nurburgring in a 250F. Not only was the engine sound absolutely magnificent, but the lairy oversteer made me chuckle all the way round.
Since then I've had a wheel, but not tried the latest Forza etc.
Edited by Krikkit on Friday 17th May 12:44
>90% of the game will just be a GT5 port (it's the same hardware), with a tweaked physics engine (apparently now with proper tyre modelling courtesy of Yokohama), a few extra tracks and few more premium cars - given PD will have had 3 years since the launch of GT5, they should have had plenty of time to get this done by November.
Personally, I think it's a bit cheeky calling it GT6... GT5.5 would be a more accurate description, and I'd have preferred a cut down PS4 based GT6 Prologue myself with the full game a year or so later. From my perspective, PD have pretty much wasted 3 years creating what GT5 should have originally been when they could have spent that time creating something breakthrough utilising the vastly improved PS4 hardware.
Instead, we'll now have to wait another 3 years for a next gen console GT game, whilst the competition will already be out this Winter.
Personally, I think it's a bit cheeky calling it GT6... GT5.5 would be a more accurate description, and I'd have preferred a cut down PS4 based GT6 Prologue myself with the full game a year or so later. From my perspective, PD have pretty much wasted 3 years creating what GT5 should have originally been when they could have spent that time creating something breakthrough utilising the vastly improved PS4 hardware.
Instead, we'll now have to wait another 3 years for a next gen console GT game, whilst the competition will already be out this Winter.
Krikkit said:
I must say I found GT5 to be nothing but a disappointment.
After all those years of delays and work, the cars sounded utterly crap (a big thing for me), there's too much of the exciting content shifted behind a pay-wall of "upgrade packs" and nowhere near enough real-world tracks. The menu system is still far too clunky, especially coupled with loading between screens (really, on a device as capable as a PS3?).
That's before we get to the ridiculous-sized updates. Every time I get a hankering to play it's hours of downloads before I can.
I agree, I loved GT3, I have real fond memories of this game, GT4 then % do nothing for me, 45 quid down the drain, wont be buying 6.After all those years of delays and work, the cars sounded utterly crap (a big thing for me), there's too much of the exciting content shifted behind a pay-wall of "upgrade packs" and nowhere near enough real-world tracks. The menu system is still far too clunky, especially coupled with loading between screens (really, on a device as capable as a PS3?).
That's before we get to the ridiculous-sized updates. Every time I get a hankering to play it's hours of downloads before I can.
SturdyHSV said:
The Gran Turismo games have always had a great feel to the handling (although I didn't like GT2 to be fair) and it's this depth and learning curve that kept me coming back. It is so much more rewarding because it takes a while to get good at it, and remains challenging enough to be worthwhile.
I've done most of the competitive racing in GT5 and now spend most of my time in just two cars,a 500bhp E46 M3 and a 550bhp Ruf 996. The on-limit handling is great on sports tyres.
Edited by Mark34bn on Friday 17th May 16:57
"while practice is good, relentlessly hacking round a digital world without focus can mean you don’t actually learn or go faster."
True; however the launch of Gran Turismo in December 1997 coincided with the first wave of internet adoption. In 1998 the granturismo.com domain was registered - not by Sony, but a private Japanese-American by the name of Kenji Morishige. He established a forum which (thanks to the domain name) attracted a steady stream of GT players.
They quickly evolved from arguing about which car was fastest to running 'time trials', with a set car, specification and track, and reporting back times. This was all honesty-based at first, but worked remarkably well and a whole generation of gamers discovered that, while they had thought that they were 'pretty good', there remained huge room for improvement by concentrating on improving one's times on a single track for lap after lap, and swapping tips for improvement with others.
One such member who registered on the granturismo.com board in 1998 was teenage Californian Bryan Heitkotter, who in 2011 became the first GT Academy USA winner.
It just took a decade for Sony to catch up with where the fans had been all along.
True; however the launch of Gran Turismo in December 1997 coincided with the first wave of internet adoption. In 1998 the granturismo.com domain was registered - not by Sony, but a private Japanese-American by the name of Kenji Morishige. He established a forum which (thanks to the domain name) attracted a steady stream of GT players.
They quickly evolved from arguing about which car was fastest to running 'time trials', with a set car, specification and track, and reporting back times. This was all honesty-based at first, but worked remarkably well and a whole generation of gamers discovered that, while they had thought that they were 'pretty good', there remained huge room for improvement by concentrating on improving one's times on a single track for lap after lap, and swapping tips for improvement with others.
One such member who registered on the granturismo.com board in 1998 was teenage Californian Bryan Heitkotter, who in 2011 became the first GT Academy USA winner.
It just took a decade for Sony to catch up with where the fans had been all along.
really sorry but.... pointless article, we all know the comparisons of computer games vs real life as this is all that get written about, what we want to know (and i think what the journalist was sent there for) is whats gt6 going be like? is it better? is it bad ass? is it going to be the mild dissapointment and long wait like gt5?
either way i'll still buy it straight away and dedicate hours of my life to simulared hooning!!
either way i'll still buy it straight away and dedicate hours of my life to simulared hooning!!
. Drifting isn't impossible in real life by the way, and shouldn't be if difficult in game as you can push the limit without consequence.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff