Ling Long Winter tyres, any good ?
Discussion
BritishRacinGrin said:
Alright TAD I won't disagree with any of that, I just wanted to get that in to point out the flaws in the label and back up those who are saying "Spend an extra fiver and get a tyre which is an order of magnitude better".
Regarding your last comment, The Kleber Quadraxers I linked will perform better in the wet than the vast majority of winter tyres, much better in the warm and dry too, whilst retaining snow and ice performance which is much better than any summer and probably not far off a bad winter tyre. All this and they're barely any more expensive than the Linglongs. It seems a better compromise for the OP who wants wet grip.
Make peace, not war Regarding your last comment, The Kleber Quadraxers I linked will perform better in the wet than the vast majority of winter tyres, much better in the warm and dry too, whilst retaining snow and ice performance which is much better than any summer and probably not far off a bad winter tyre. All this and they're barely any more expensive than the Linglongs. It seems a better compromise for the OP who wants wet grip.
.Of course, £5 a tyre is f
k all, so 4 tyres is £20 - a few beers with the other half in the local boozer. Would be madness not to buy a better set of tyres over £50, let alone £20. I do agree with you on that, and I do agree that if the OP wants wet grip, buying tyres designed for that is best, but with winter coming, if I wanted wet weather tyres, I'd buy good winter's and have the best of both worlds. I missed some of your original point and for that my humblest of apologies!
Nigel Worc's said:
The label suggests they are as good as anything else (It's the wet rating on winter tyres that concerns me the most).
If you want to know which is the better winter tyre to use in the wet during the summer when braking then the EU label might be of some use. Studded winter tyres aren't subject to EU tyre labelling rules but unfortunately studless ones are despite the test conditions being outside of the winter tyre's designed operating conditions.Which Tyres said:
...all tests should be carried out at 25 degrees Celsius! So a cold weather tyre that is designed to offer superior performance in colder conditions has to be tested in a temperature range outside of what it has been designed to perform at.
http://whichtyres.com/2013/10/winter-tyres-tyre-la...Those aspects of a winter tyre's design that enable it to grip on ice also tend to compromise its wet weather performance, which is one reason that 'winter tyres' can also be sub divided into 'Nordic winter tyres' and 'European winter tyres'.
Thankfully jon-'s tyrereviews website has many of the winter tyre test results on it so comparisons between different winter tyres, tested in conditions that reflect their intended use, can be made.
Some tests even include a summer tyre for comparison:
tyrereviews said:
In addition to the results below, Auto Bild included a summer tyre on test for comparison purposes.
Unsurprisingly, in the snow, the summer tyre was useless, stopping over 31 metres longer than the best winter tyre in snow braking, and unable to gain enough traction to even complete the snow handling tests!
Dry testing also presented no surprises, with the summer tyre convincingly besting every winter tyre on test, stopping 4.6 metres shorter than the best winter tyre in dry braking, with a similar advantage in dry handling. The compromises a winter tyre has to make for snow performance means with todays technology, a winter tyre will never outperform a summer tyre during dry braking.
Most interesting was the wet scoring. The summer tyre put on a good show during wet braking, beating fifteen of the winter tyres, and just beaten by the Pirelli winter for second place, but finished ninth in wet handling and was considerably down in the aquaplaning tests too. Unfortunately we don't know what temperatures the wet testing was carried out, but this marks an improvement for winter tyres over previous years.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2014-Auto-Bil...Unsurprisingly, in the snow, the summer tyre was useless, stopping over 31 metres longer than the best winter tyre in snow braking, and unable to gain enough traction to even complete the snow handling tests!
Dry testing also presented no surprises, with the summer tyre convincingly besting every winter tyre on test, stopping 4.6 metres shorter than the best winter tyre in dry braking, with a similar advantage in dry handling. The compromises a winter tyre has to make for snow performance means with todays technology, a winter tyre will never outperform a summer tyre during dry braking.
Most interesting was the wet scoring. The summer tyre put on a good show during wet braking, beating fifteen of the winter tyres, and just beaten by the Pirelli winter for second place, but finished ninth in wet handling and was considerably down in the aquaplaning tests too. Unfortunately we don't know what temperatures the wet testing was carried out, but this marks an improvement for winter tyres over previous years.
The EU wet grip label only tests wet braking, but as this test above shows a tyre that performs well in wet braking doesn't necessarily perform as well with lateral grip in the wet.
Nokian Tyres said:
Road surface friction in the wintertime varies between the fraction coefficient 0.1 for wet ice to the coefficient of almost one for dry tarmac. In addition to absolute grip, the correct relation between lateral and longitudinal grip ensures good anticipatory properties and steering response even in a blizzard or watery slush.
http://www.nokiantyres.com/innovation/safety/impac...There is also the question of just how accurate the EU tyre label ratings are, even for summer tyres designed for the test conditions:
Tyremen said:
...since the tyre manufacturers announced their label values there have been a bunch of independent tyre tests that paint a very different picture.
The most prominent example was highlighted in the Auto Express summer tyre test 2012. Michelin had just released the new Energy Saver + and in the tyre size 205/55R16 it carries a label with wet grip rating of A. However Auto Express quoted the following, “it was the worst performer across our wet test track tests. It finished seventh (out of 8) in our wet braking assessment, as it took three metres longer than the best to bring the car to a halt, while it also struggled in aquaplaning (straight 8th, curved 7th) and wet handling (8th). You could clearly feel the limited grip from behind the wheel, with poor traction and lack of balance.”
http://www.tyremen.co.uk/tyres-explained/tyre-labe...The most prominent example was highlighted in the Auto Express summer tyre test 2012. Michelin had just released the new Energy Saver + and in the tyre size 205/55R16 it carries a label with wet grip rating of A. However Auto Express quoted the following, “it was the worst performer across our wet test track tests. It finished seventh (out of 8) in our wet braking assessment, as it took three metres longer than the best to bring the car to a halt, while it also struggled in aquaplaning (straight 8th, curved 7th) and wet handling (8th). You could clearly feel the limited grip from behind the wheel, with poor traction and lack of balance.”
As for saving a few pounds by buying the LingLong tyres, each to their own but I'd prefer to spend the extra for a set of tyres that work better across a wider range of winter conditions.
Edited by jagnet on Wednesday 26th November 05:25
I have not read every post after the OP so let me off I cover something that's already been done.
I have not experienced this tyre , but when we bought our current dog / caravan car it had two Linglong L688 fitted that were nearly new. I remember being quite pleased that it had some nearly new rubber on it.
To the point , they were awful. Dangerous in the wet , they always felt the balancing and tracking was out ( they were checked and found no problems ). This were the first time I disposed of a tyre long before they were worn out.
I replaced them with Nexen NPriz 4S ( all season )before we went to France in the car and the difference in the wet and dry was unbelievable. The car was also quieter , and did not wobble!
I would sooner go with the nexen at a few pence more regardless of the rating , or just £7 more for a goodyear which have always made me feel safe in the wet.
I have not experienced this tyre , but when we bought our current dog / caravan car it had two Linglong L688 fitted that were nearly new. I remember being quite pleased that it had some nearly new rubber on it.
To the point , they were awful. Dangerous in the wet , they always felt the balancing and tracking was out ( they were checked and found no problems ). This were the first time I disposed of a tyre long before they were worn out.
I replaced them with Nexen NPriz 4S ( all season )before we went to France in the car and the difference in the wet and dry was unbelievable. The car was also quieter , and did not wobble!
I would sooner go with the nexen at a few pence more regardless of the rating , or just £7 more for a goodyear which have always made me feel safe in the wet.
Little of topic, but just a quick thanks for the link to http://www.tyreleader.co.uk/
Great value on there.
Great value on there.
Over the last two years i have fitted two well known brands for Winter tyres. In fact, they both won the respective year's winter tyre tests by a UK publication.
Despite this, both were god-awful, scary things when braking in the wet. As a result, i'm holding off the year and will make my decision on wet weather performance rather than snow.
Despite this, both were god-awful, scary things when braking in the wet. As a result, i'm holding off the year and will make my decision on wet weather performance rather than snow.
TheAngryDog said:
Of course, £5 a tyre is fk all, so 4 tyres is £20 - a few beers with the other half in the local boozer. Would be madness not to buy a better set of tyres over £50, let alone £20.
I agree...however...just because they are more expensive does it make them better? The tyres are only the start and I would say the driver, roads and condition of the vehicle add more to the equation that £5.00 can't compnesate for if it even did in the first place. Of course there is a lot of security, often misplaced, in brand names and the brands know this. k all, so 4 tyres is £20 - a few beers with the other half in the local boozer. Would be madness not to buy a better set of tyres over £50, let alone £20. r11co said:
Well, shut up then.
Nice approach to the discussion 
Another chinese tyre related thread and r11co's one man mission to convince people that they're actually not that bad continues. At least you seem to have stopped shouting "racism" at people that aren't yet on board with your message.
r11co said:
Also, Linglong's Greenmax range seem to be performing well in tyre tests - certainly up there with some of the better known mid-line brands.
I'm struggling to find multiple tests that include these. There was the 2011 Finnish ECO test which was notable for them being not as far off the top tyres as usual. Best summed up on this related PH thread by Caulkhead:Caulkhead said:
So what you're saying is, when compared to tyres actually designed to grip less to save fuel, the inherent lack of grip from linglongs is less noticeable?
Hardly a ringing endorsement to PH types is it?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=100...Hardly a ringing endorsement to PH types is it?
Further investigation reveals a 4th place test result for the Linglong:
Chinese Tyre Review said:
ZHAOYUAN, Shandong – China’s Linglong Tyre scored 7.6 in Summer Tyre Test 2011 recently conducted by Test World Oy, Finland, winning out over international big names such as Dunlop, Michelin and Bridgestone with good comprehensive performance, according to a company statement.
...
With a moderate performance in all aspects, Linglong Tyre was rated the fourth best in the test following Continental Horse, Goodyear and Pirelli. "Linglong was a surprise, being clearly the best Chinese tire ever in our tire tests. Linglong beat a bunch of familiar more expensive brands,” Test World said in its report.
http://www.chinaautoreview.com/pub/CARArticle.aspx......
With a moderate performance in all aspects, Linglong Tyre was rated the fourth best in the test following Continental Horse, Goodyear and Pirelli. "Linglong was a surprise, being clearly the best Chinese tire ever in our tire tests. Linglong beat a bunch of familiar more expensive brands,” Test World said in its report.
Hmm, interesting.
Continental said:
In the last few days, a dispatch from the Asian tyre manufacturer Linglong proved vexing. It asserted that its product, the Green Max, had captured fourth place in this very test. With an overall score of 7.4, the tyre had placed ninth, in fact, sharing the spot with two further competitors. In ABS braking in the wet, the Green Max made a particularly poor showing, scoring just six points and ending up in second-to-last position. This underlines how far some tyres continue to lag behind the high technological standard of genuine premium products. Continental expressed surprise that several international media had gone with this erroneous dispatch. It recommends, therefore, that in the interest of maximally transparent consumer information, all motorists themselves take the time to consult the pertinent test magazines or check test results on the Internet.
Ah, that explains it. Tests result not up to scratch? Just lie and send out your own version. And then we're supposed to trust the self-certified results on the EU tyre labels. I'm almost convinced If you're going to use Tyreleader then give the 'fitting station' a call to check that they'll do it. I had a problem with a garage moaning at me that "we don't know why they're sending all of these tyres to us and we can't get hold of them to sort it out". Possibly a ruse, possibly true - either way I was pissed at the fitting cost, mega slow service and overall experience.
jagnet said:
Another chinese tyre related thread and r11co's one man mission to convince people that they're actually not that bad continues.
I'm not really understanding the determination to assert otherwise by some people (and quoting a rival tyre manufacturer is not exactly a convincing argument).There is a real 'head-in-the-sand' issue here with some people who simply refuse to acknowledge that Chinese product development is moving very quickly and even their offerings of a couple of years ago bear no relation to what they are selling now, or what they will be selling in future thanks to the re-investment of the vast sums of money they are making selling products that are actually not as bad as the die-hards make out.
There once was a time that the same contempt and ignorant dismissal was directed at Korean products, before that Japanese products, and even before that 'non-British' products. Spot the pattern.
The prejudices will die gradually with those who hold them.
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 26th November 11:31
otolith said:
The prejudices will die out when they stop selling crap products and enough of the people who have previously had bad experiences with them are willing to risk wasting some more money on them.
If the products were as bad as some people assert then they would have gone out of business long before the above would happen, yet they grow and grow....
surveyor said:
I never really believed in ditch finders until I bought my current car that the trader had chucked some tyres on the back of.
The grip is laughable. First time I've had to remind myself of tyres before attempting to pull out. I keep forgetting to check the make, but presume Chinese.
The grip is laughable. First time I've had to remind myself of tyres before attempting to pull out. I keep forgetting to check the make, but presume Chinese.
r11co said:
cheap tyre clichés - someone will be along to give their experiences of a different product in order to damn the one being asked about by association.
In this case an association that hasn't even been verified by the poster.r11co said:
surveyor said:
I never really believed in ditch finders until I bought my current car that the trader had chucked some tyres on the back of.
The grip is laughable. First time I've had to remind myself of tyres before attempting to pull out. I keep forgetting to check the make, but presume Chinese.
The grip is laughable. First time I've had to remind myself of tyres before attempting to pull out. I keep forgetting to check the make, but presume Chinese.
r11co said:
cheap tyre clichés - someone will be along to give their experiences of a different product in order to damn the one being asked about by association.
In this case an association that hasn't even been verified by the poster.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff