Railway station parking Ts+Cs
Discussion
I've been contemplating coughing up for the extortionate parking prices that 'Indigo' charge at southeastern railway car parks but (naturally) it wanted me to agree to Ts+Cs before completing the purchase. Reading the Ts+Cs is rather scary, particularly points 9 and 10.
Ts+Cs: https://www.southeasternparking.co.uk/consumer/faq...
Scary bits:
9 AGENCY
Every person who enters into a contract with the company for the parking of a vehicle at the car park, whether by purchasing a ticket or otherwise, does so on behalf of himself and all other persons having any proprietary, possessory or other financial material interest in the vehicle and its contents.
10 MOVING AND RELOCATION OF VEHICLES
10.1 Where the Car Park has to be closed either permanently or temporarily in whole or in part or has to be evacuated in cases of emergency or otherwise, the Company, its servants or Agents may remove any Vehicles at any time to any other location as the Company, its servants or Agents shall reasonably deem appropriate.
10.2 To the extent that it may be necessary to do so in the exercise of rights conferred upon the Company, its servants or Agents at law or in these terms and conditions, the Company, its servants or Agents shall have the right to drive or otherwise take any Vehicle on the roads or tow it away.
10.3 The Company, its servants and Agents reserve the right to enter a Vehicle (and to use force if necessary) in such a manner as they deem necessary without being liable for damage caused to facilitate the exercise of the rights conferred on the Company, its servants and Agents in these terms and conditions or to abate any nuisance caused by the Vehicle.
Googling excerpts of it seems some of it is fairly standard but I fail to see how I can enter a contract on behalf of my local car dealer (if I've got a loan car) or on behalf of any finance company that may have an interest in my own vehicle. I also don't like the idea of them being able to damage the car without any recourse.
I've not clicked the purchase button after reading this, what are people's thoughts? Am I being paranoid or is it cause for concern?
Cheers
Ts+Cs: https://www.southeasternparking.co.uk/consumer/faq...
Scary bits:
9 AGENCY
Every person who enters into a contract with the company for the parking of a vehicle at the car park, whether by purchasing a ticket or otherwise, does so on behalf of himself and all other persons having any proprietary, possessory or other financial material interest in the vehicle and its contents.
10 MOVING AND RELOCATION OF VEHICLES
10.1 Where the Car Park has to be closed either permanently or temporarily in whole or in part or has to be evacuated in cases of emergency or otherwise, the Company, its servants or Agents may remove any Vehicles at any time to any other location as the Company, its servants or Agents shall reasonably deem appropriate.
10.2 To the extent that it may be necessary to do so in the exercise of rights conferred upon the Company, its servants or Agents at law or in these terms and conditions, the Company, its servants or Agents shall have the right to drive or otherwise take any Vehicle on the roads or tow it away.
10.3 The Company, its servants and Agents reserve the right to enter a Vehicle (and to use force if necessary) in such a manner as they deem necessary without being liable for damage caused to facilitate the exercise of the rights conferred on the Company, its servants and Agents in these terms and conditions or to abate any nuisance caused by the Vehicle.
Googling excerpts of it seems some of it is fairly standard but I fail to see how I can enter a contract on behalf of my local car dealer (if I've got a loan car) or on behalf of any finance company that may have an interest in my own vehicle. I also don't like the idea of them being able to damage the car without any recourse.
I've not clicked the purchase button after reading this, what are people's thoughts? Am I being paranoid or is it cause for concern?
Cheers
Other interpretations of a similar section: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22To+the+extent...
Tom
Get onto pepioo.com and register.Its Free
Have you a ticket?
If so do DO NOTHING until pepipoo have a look at it. place in the Private parking thread
If not put the quetion in the flame pit and ask. They know all about ection 14 Railway bylaws and PPCs operating in an on Railway owned land
The best poster on the are Lynnzer,Gan,hcandersen,incadescent,schoolrunmum and others with a good high post rate. You will learn a lot.
BUT DO NOT CONTACT THE PPC AT ALL AND EVEN MORE IMPOERTANT GIVE ANY INDICATION TO THEM WHO THE DRIVER WAS
Bst of luck
now wait for the holier than thou posters to poor pee on this and say you will go to hell by not caving in at once to these rapaciousd companies, who only exist bscause muppets roll over at the first letter of threat
You have nothing to lose, except a 60 quid fine and everything to gain
Get onto pepioo.com and register.Its Free
Have you a ticket?
If so do DO NOTHING until pepipoo have a look at it. place in the Private parking thread
If not put the quetion in the flame pit and ask. They know all about ection 14 Railway bylaws and PPCs operating in an on Railway owned land
The best poster on the are Lynnzer,Gan,hcandersen,incadescent,schoolrunmum and others with a good high post rate. You will learn a lot.
BUT DO NOT CONTACT THE PPC AT ALL AND EVEN MORE IMPOERTANT GIVE ANY INDICATION TO THEM WHO THE DRIVER WAS
Bst of luck
now wait for the holier than thou posters to poor pee on this and say you will go to hell by not caving in at once to these rapaciousd companies, who only exist bscause muppets roll over at the first letter of threat
You have nothing to lose, except a 60 quid fine and everything to gain
If I was going to set up a chain of car parks around the country, I would probably include conditions around
- stopping people weasel out of paying by pretending the car belongs to someone else, and
- give myself the power (subject to clear limits) to get the cars shifted should they need to be without being sued by every armchair warrior
So I would think OP that there's not too much to worry about.
Also worth considering: What options do you have? You can only accept or refuse all the t&cs and I imagine plenty of people are parking there just fine despite these clauses being in place.
Good show on reading the t&cs though: this forum would be a whole lot emptier if more people took time to do this.
Ian
- stopping people weasel out of paying by pretending the car belongs to someone else, and
- give myself the power (subject to clear limits) to get the cars shifted should they need to be without being sued by every armchair warrior
So I would think OP that there's not too much to worry about.
Also worth considering: What options do you have? You can only accept or refuse all the t&cs and I imagine plenty of people are parking there just fine despite these clauses being in place.
Good show on reading the t&cs though: this forum would be a whole lot emptier if more people took time to do this.
Ian
Ian Geary said:
If I was going to set up a chain of car parks around the country, I would probably include conditions around
- stopping people weasel out of paying by pretending the car belongs to someone else, and
- give myself the power (subject to clear limits) to get the cars shifted should they need to be without being sued by every armchair warrior
So I would think OP that there's not too much to worry about.
Also worth considering: What options do you have? You can only accept or refuse all the t&cs and I imagine plenty of people are parking there just fine despite these clauses being in place.
Good show on reading the t&cs though: this forum would be a whole lot emptier if more people took time to do this.
Ian
exactly - stopping people weasel out of paying by pretending the car belongs to someone else, and
- give myself the power (subject to clear limits) to get the cars shifted should they need to be without being sued by every armchair warrior
So I would think OP that there's not too much to worry about.
Also worth considering: What options do you have? You can only accept or refuse all the t&cs and I imagine plenty of people are parking there just fine despite these clauses being in place.
Good show on reading the t&cs though: this forum would be a whole lot emptier if more people took time to do this.
Ian
Ian Geary said:
If I was going to set up a chain of car parks around the country, I would probably include conditions around
- stopping people weasel out of paying by pretending the car belongs to someone else, and
- give myself the power (subject to clear limits) to get the cars shifted should they need to be without being sued by every armchair warrior
So I would think OP that there's not too much to worry about.
Also worth considering: What options do you have? You can only accept or refuse all the t&cs and I imagine plenty of people are parking there just fine despite these clauses being in place.
Good show on reading the t&cs though: this forum would be a whole lot emptier if more people took time to do this.
Ian
If the way the ppcs didn't go about business now want so laughable there would be a lot more time for them.- stopping people weasel out of paying by pretending the car belongs to someone else, and
- give myself the power (subject to clear limits) to get the cars shifted should they need to be without being sued by every armchair warrior
So I would think OP that there's not too much to worry about.
Also worth considering: What options do you have? You can only accept or refuse all the t&cs and I imagine plenty of people are parking there just fine despite these clauses being in place.
Good show on reading the t&cs though: this forum would be a whole lot emptier if more people took time to do this.
Ian
Have you even read the terms above I wouldn't agree to them, they reserve the right to enter your car, they have the right to to move the car taking it out on the road. To people seem to have read the headline and jumped on the ppc ticket band wagon.
How many people would be on hear saying yea the ppc opened your car went through your belongings and tows it away. They said it was an emergency can they do that see their terms attached.
essayer said:
I think it reasonable that in the event of a major incident then the relevant authorities have permission to relocate cars to make room or clear the way for emergency access etc. Perhaps this is how that is formalised?
yep it also allows them to put windows through if people leave children and / or animals in the vehicle ...
See the link in the second post. These clauses are far more common than you might think. Indeed they are pretty much universal.
What most people fail to realise is the signage will have on it somewhere (often in tiny print).
"Full terms and conditions available from XXXXXXXX on request"
XXXXX being the name of the company.
That's where you discover to your dismay that you are bound by them.
The thing is, who ever bothers to ask for a copy and find out?
Answer: hardly anyone.
It's not just railway stations and airports. Some other examples.
A shopping centre - http://crowngate-worcester.co.uk/parking/parking-t...
A leisure complex - http://www.theo2.co.uk/legal/terms-and-conditions-...
A beach - http://www.westwitteringbeach.co.uk/t_and_c.html
What most people fail to realise is the signage will have on it somewhere (often in tiny print).
"Full terms and conditions available from XXXXXXXX on request"
XXXXX being the name of the company.
That's where you discover to your dismay that you are bound by them.
The thing is, who ever bothers to ask for a copy and find out?
Answer: hardly anyone.
It's not just railway stations and airports. Some other examples.
A shopping centre - http://crowngate-worcester.co.uk/parking/parking-t...
A leisure complex - http://www.theo2.co.uk/legal/terms-and-conditions-...
A beach - http://www.westwitteringbeach.co.uk/t_and_c.html
Many years ago I was a casualty for a major incident exercise. We arrived at the location in a car 4 of us all made up with injuries. Parked our car and went on to do the exercise. When we came back the car had a smashed drivers window and was in a different location. The fire brigade had decided that where our car was was to be the location of their command vehicle, so ours was moved. We did get payed for the damage. But as was pointed out at thee time, in an emergency if we need your space then we will take it.
Not sure I would be happy if some parking company attendant moved my car just so they could make better use of the car park though.
Not sure I would be happy if some parking company attendant moved my car just so they could make better use of the car park though.
silverfoxcc said:
Tom
Get onto pepioo.com and register.Its Free
Have you a ticket?
If so do DO NOTHING until pepipoo have a look at it. place in the Private parking thread
If not put the quetion in the flame pit and ask. They know all about ection 14 Railway bylaws and PPCs operating in an on Railway owned land
The best poster on the are Lynnzer,Gan,hcandersen,incadescent,schoolrunmum and others with a good high post rate. You will learn a lot.
BUT DO NOT CONTACT THE PPC AT ALL AND EVEN MORE IMPOERTANT GIVE ANY INDICATION TO THEM WHO THE DRIVER WAS
Bst of luck
now wait for the holier than thou posters to poor pee on this and say you will go to hell by not caving in at once to these rapaciousd companies, who only exist bscause muppets roll over at the first letter of threat
You have nothing to lose, except a 60 quid fine and everything to gain
Have you got this on a copy & paste set up? Your answer bears no relation to the question asked. In any event, don't railway parking set ups carry far greater weight than normal PPCs?Get onto pepioo.com and register.Its Free
Have you a ticket?
If so do DO NOTHING until pepipoo have a look at it. place in the Private parking thread
If not put the quetion in the flame pit and ask. They know all about ection 14 Railway bylaws and PPCs operating in an on Railway owned land
The best poster on the are Lynnzer,Gan,hcandersen,incadescent,schoolrunmum and others with a good high post rate. You will learn a lot.
BUT DO NOT CONTACT THE PPC AT ALL AND EVEN MORE IMPOERTANT GIVE ANY INDICATION TO THEM WHO THE DRIVER WAS
Bst of luck
now wait for the holier than thou posters to poor pee on this and say you will go to hell by not caving in at once to these rapaciousd companies, who only exist bscause muppets roll over at the first letter of threat
You have nothing to lose, except a 60 quid fine and everything to gain
snorky782 said:
In any event, don't railway parking set ups carry far greater weight than normal PPCs?
Only if the franchisee* prosecutes under Railway Byelaw 14. Such cases are heard in front of the magistrates not a county court judge for a civil debt.* Northern Rail were notorious for this a few years ago - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=105... - I'm not sure if they are still doing so.
Railway car parks come under different legislation to normal private parking spaces, but not under local authority legislation. It's also one of the few areas were clamping is arguably still permitted (Bye law 14 if anyone is that interested - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
They are notoriously hard for the parking companies to enforce as it has to go through the magistrates court within 6 months of the event, and there is no keeper liability. I've had many conversations with Indigo, Vinci, Meteor, Northern Rail, Southern Rail, ZZPS, Wright Hassall about this - it is a numbers game to them, and if they send enough letters and make enough threats, then enough people pay up to make it worth their while.
The problem I have with them is that they make these threats to me as keeper, rather than the driver. When I try to give them details of how to contact the driver, they just send me more blurb about terms and conditions that my company have not agreed to, but the driver may well have agreed to them.
I've invited them many times to discuss it in front of a magistrate, but as yet none of them have obliged.
They are notoriously hard for the parking companies to enforce as it has to go through the magistrates court within 6 months of the event, and there is no keeper liability. I've had many conversations with Indigo, Vinci, Meteor, Northern Rail, Southern Rail, ZZPS, Wright Hassall about this - it is a numbers game to them, and if they send enough letters and make enough threats, then enough people pay up to make it worth their while.
The problem I have with them is that they make these threats to me as keeper, rather than the driver. When I try to give them details of how to contact the driver, they just send me more blurb about terms and conditions that my company have not agreed to, but the driver may well have agreed to them.
I've invited them many times to discuss it in front of a magistrate, but as yet none of them have obliged.
Just to put the other side of the story,:
Have worked for a rail company (we managed our own parking rather than contacting out like southeastern). There were occasions when we needed to close car parks. For example to use for rail replacement buses & queuing areas for major events. Despite making every effort to put out adequate signage in advance you can guarantee there will always be at least one person who doesn't see it or thinks it doesn't apply to them. The only option then is to move the vehicle. Done with 'skates' that slide in underneath and cause no damage. I would imagine this is the reason for this kind of clause. I've seen similar when local authorities have moved cars due to special events, resurfacing etc.
Have worked for a rail company (we managed our own parking rather than contacting out like southeastern). There were occasions when we needed to close car parks. For example to use for rail replacement buses & queuing areas for major events. Despite making every effort to put out adequate signage in advance you can guarantee there will always be at least one person who doesn't see it or thinks it doesn't apply to them. The only option then is to move the vehicle. Done with 'skates' that slide in underneath and cause no damage. I would imagine this is the reason for this kind of clause. I've seen similar when local authorities have moved cars due to special events, resurfacing etc.
TomG said:
Thanks all for your replies, it would seem that Indigo have since completely re-written their Ts+Cs so they only cover their website and application by the looks of it.
Still not had a proper response from Indigo either.
I use the Indigo app on my phone to pay for parking at Three Bridges most days, never had any issues.Still not had a proper response from Indigo either.
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