The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T(Vol XVIII)

[Crook]

LHD said:

That's the one.

It's only been there 8 years...

[Crook]

wack said:

Done deal , I liked mine that much I bought another , had a chat on the phone , the owner is as genuine as the car so deposit paid flight arranged with a 2-3 day hoon around the Highlands thrown in

Anybody want to buy a blue one

[ATM]

Diesel Meister said:

ATM said:

I fired up my ls1 e46 last week. It's not turned over for 4 or 5 months. Fired up straight away and almost everything worked - just the Speedo has decided to break. I did charge the battery obviously.

The rev counter in my AW under-reads by ~30% on account of 2 more cylinders. Conversely, despite wheels that are the same rolling radius, the (admittedly 32 year-old) speedo over-reads by a minimum of a about 5mph above ~30mph and as much as ~12-15mph at worst (higher speeds) according to GPS... A fun game is watching the mechanical speedo and the digital GPS try to keep pace with the rate of change in velocity as the rare opportunities for spirited acceleration present themselves The joys of heavily modified cars eh?

If you ignore the thunder you'd be hard pressed to know much has changed with mine. The only thing which doesn't work is the mpg meter thing and there is no AC.

[Cheburator mk2]

Idle observation - the 635CSi seems to be finally having its day in the sun... Early M635CSi with low miles hitting £100k+ at auction. Bonkers, when you consider they are not that rare and also that they got slaughtered by the 5-spd 928S4/GT in contemporary road tests. Same auction, a 26k miles 1990 928GT made £50k, which in my mind is an absolute steal, when compared to the 6-series pricing. Even run of the mill 635Autos are well into 5-figures territory. Bubble, I tell thee or madness?

Overall, some very strange results - a Karman Ghia Mk1 GTI Convertible for £8.8k anyone? Yet, a 2-dr Cossie only sold for £14.5k

[Gruber]

Cheburator mk2 said:

Idle observation - the 635CSi seems to be finally having its day in the sun... Early M635CSi with low miles hitting £100k+ at auction. Bonkers, when you consider they are not that rare and also that they got slaughtered by the 5-spd 928S4/GT in contemporary road tests. Same auction, a 26k miles 1990 928GT made £50k, which in my mind is an absolute steal, when compared to the 6-series pricing. Even run of the mill 635Autos are well into 5-figures territory. Bubble, I tell thee or madness?

Overall, some very strange results - a Karman Ghia Mk1 GTI Convertible for £8.8k anyone? Yet, a 2-dr Cossie only sold for £14.5k

Hmmm. I'm not convinced there's been much movement in 635s, and I absolutely agree that £100k looks bonkers - but it only takes a tiny handful of nut-job more-money-than-sense enthusiasts to push the price of a special example well beyond the limits of rationality at an auction.

Big love for the big 6 here, but the average price doesn't seem to me to have moved much in the last few years. I paid about £9k for my (much missed) 65k-ish-mile very shiny red one - auto, chrome bumper non-M - back in 2010 and I doubt it would be worth much more than £12-13k today.

A lot of the 5-figure run of the mill 635 autos currently for sale seem to have been kicking around the classifieds for a long time.

ETA - I'd agree though that M-cars have seen a bigger %-age rise than non-Ms this last couple of years.

Edited by Gruber on Tuesday 4th April 09:48

[s m]

Gruber said:

Cheburator mk2 said:

Idle observation - the 635CSi seems to be finally having its day in the sun... Early M635CSi with low miles hitting £100k+ at auction. Bonkers, when you consider they are not that rare and also that they got slaughtered by the 5-spd 928S4/GT in contemporary road tests. Same auction, a 26k miles 1990 928GT made £50k, which in my mind is an absolute steal, when compared to the 6-series pricing. Even run of the mill 635Autos are well into 5-figures territory. Bubble, I tell thee or madness?

Overall, some very strange results - a Karman Ghia Mk1 GTI Convertible for £8.8k anyone? Yet, a 2-dr Cossie only sold for £14.5k

Hmmm. I'm not convinced there's been much movement in 635s, and I absolutely agree that £100k looks bonkers - but it only takes a tiny handful of nut-job more-money-than-sense enthusiasts to push the price of a special example well beyond the limits of rationality at an auction.

Big love for the big 6 here, but the average price doesn't seem to me to have moved much in the last few years. I paid about £9k for my (much missed) 65k-ish-mile very shiny red one - auto, chrome bumper non-M - back in 2010 and I doubt it would be worth much more than £12-13k today.

A lot of the 5-figure run of the mill 635 autos currently for sale seem to have been kicking around the classifieds for a long time.

ETA - I'd agree though that M-cars have seen a bigger %-age rise than non-Ms this last couple of years.

Edited by Gruber on Tuesday 4th April 09:48

At the other end of the scale at the same auction.........

£1540



http://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/1987-bmw-635cs...

[Cheburator mk2]

s m said:

At the other end of the scale at the same auction.........

£1540



http://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/1987-bmw-635cs...

That is definitely the "other end of the scale"

Trouble is - BMW in my opinion and also speaking to friends with 1980s ///M cars are not very good with regards to having a good stock of spares, thus making a resto project a full on minefield for an un-experienced enthusiast. Porsche may be pricey, but it is astounding how much of the old parts stock is being re-produced now. Believe it or not, you can walk into OPC and order a brand new short block for a lowly 944 S2/968. You will also get change from £3k! Not bad, given that it is not even for their hallo model...

Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Tuesday 4th April 16:20

[E24man]

Gruber said:

Cheburator mk2 said:

Idle observation - the 635CSi seems to be finally having its day in the sun... Early M635CSi with low miles hitting £100k+ at auction. Bonkers, when you consider they are not that rare and also that they got slaughtered by the 5-spd 928S4/GT in contemporary road tests. Same auction, a 26k miles 1990 928GT made £50k, which in my mind is an absolute steal, when compared to the 6-series pricing. Even run of the mill 635Autos are well into 5-figures territory. Bubble, I tell thee or madness?

Overall, some very strange results - a Karman Ghia Mk1 GTI Convertible for £8.8k anyone? Yet, a 2-dr Cossie only sold for £14.5k

Hmmm. I'm not convinced there's been much movement in 635s, and I absolutely agree that £100k looks bonkers - but it only takes a tiny handful of nut-job more-money-than-sense enthusiasts to push the price of a special example well beyond the limits of rationality at an auction.

Big love for the big 6 here, but the average price doesn't seem to me to have moved much in the last few years. I paid about £9k for my (much missed) 65k-ish-mile very shiny red one - auto, chrome bumper non-M - back in 2010 and I doubt it would be worth much more than £12-13k today.

A lot of the 5-figure run of the mill 635 autos currently for sale seem to have been kicking around the classifieds for a long time.

ETA - I'd agree though that M-cars have seen a bigger %-age rise than non-Ms this last couple of years.

Edited by Gruber on Tuesday 4th April 09:48

I hate to disagree with your undoubted knowledge Gruber but here's what £9k gets you into as far as M6's are concerned these days....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1986-BMW-M635CSi-E24-M-P...

Bascially, a basket case having stood unused outside for 20 years. It would cost the thick end of £15k (if you get lucky and you get mates rates) to restore to anywhere near reasonable condition.

All E24's have bumped over the past few years due to the basic premise of rarity - when did you last see one on the road?

There were probably over 10,000 cars made for the UK but probably less than a tenth of that left now. In terms of the rarity of M635CSi their attrition rate is far beyond the rate of it's 4 door sister. Reading through many posts on M5board the accepted wisdom is that about two thirds of the 189 rhd E28 M5's are left, but less than half of the 524 rhd M635CSi's remain with about 100 on the road so it's no wonder really that its looks, it's increasing rarity and that engine have bumped the price of very low mileage examples just into three figures.

Most M635CSi's have been trading for £20k plus for three or four years now and the better examples have gone from high twenties to low thirties to mid thirties and just beyond. The £100k car just sold has undoubtedly been sold primarily on mileage rather than condition but I know my own car and many, many others owned by true enthusiasts would easily match it on condition. Other E24's have broken the £20k ceiling with a few low mileage and excellent condition examples nearing £30k and two Sytner non-turbo Alpina cars making mid-thirties in the past few years.

Standard 635CSi's have gone from £500 basket cases and £5k mint cars just over five years ago to £2k basket cases up to regular £10k plus good cars now.

Are they worth it? That's the question on pure subjective grounds; most would agree the cars are good looking and they are certainly striking and different today. They rust like buggery but they are easy-peasy nuts and bolts and simple electrics to work on and put right. Parts are fairly good to come by with the odd anomaly but enthusiasts around the world have helped produce some rare, unavailable and necessary parts.

I am very biased but I wouldn't give up my M635CSi before my Alpina's... which nearly had to happen very recently ....simply because a good car is a joy to own and drive.

[Output Flange]

E24man said:

Reading through many posts on M5board the accepted wisdom is that about two thirds of the 189 rhd E28 M5's are left, but less than half of the 524 rhd M635CSi's remain with about 100 on the road so it's no wonder really that its looks, it's increasing rarity and that engine have bumped the price of very low mileage examples just into three figures.

M5board died a death around 18 months ago, but your information seems older than that. If more than a third of the original cars have survived I'd be surprised.

[E24man]

I hadn't realised the E28 section had gone so deathly quiet in the last 18 months - what on earth caused that? Infighting?

All the other sections are still very active - I visit the E34 M5, Alpina and E24 sections fairly regularly and they are well used. Yes, my two-thirds guesstimate is based on information over the last ten years or so but I wouldn't think there were that many scrapped in the last two years or so since their prices rocketed on the back of the E30 M3 price absurdity.

[Output Flange]

I'm not entirely sure to be honest - I wasn't hugely active on there.

I don't think numbers have been in triple digits for quite a few years now. If you think back 10 years to when you could (and I did) buy a complete (albeit project) car for under £2k a bunch of them disappeared around then. A handful have been lost to accidents over the last 5 years too.

One of the inevitable consequences of the uplift in prices is that there are a few M5 VIN plates attached to shells that didn't leave the factory as such. It probably doesn't really matter in practical terms, but it's certainly happening.

[Gruber]

E24man said:

I hate to disagree with your undoubted knowledge Gruber but here's what £9k gets you into as far as M6's are concerned these days....

Apologies if I wasn't clear. The £9k comment was in relation to the non-M e24.

[Gruber]

Output Flange said:

I'm not entirely sure to be honest - I wasn't hugely active on there.

I don't think numbers have been in triple digits for quite a few years now. If you think back 10 years to when you could (and I did) buy a complete (albeit project) car for under £2k a bunch of them disappeared around then. A handful have been lost to accidents over the last 5 years too.

One of the inevitable consequences of the uplift in prices is that there are a few M5 VIN plates attached to shells that didn't leave the factory as such. It probably doesn't really matter in practical terms, but it's certainly happening.

I think mine left the country and went to Ireland after I sold it. I used to pop into the forum from time to time just to see if there was any news on the old girl, but the complete lack of anything much at all on that forum for months now means I've stopped checking.

Edited by Gruber on Tuesday 4th April 21:00

[E24man]

My apologies as I was a little out as dvla believe they are both under half the original numbers left with 26 M5's on the road, 68 Sorned, 97 M635's on the road and 144 sorned.

[Output Flange]

Soon to be 27 M5s on the road, 67 SORN'd

[braddo]

Amazing that there are so few E28 M5s on the road. I wonder if it's a case of lots on SORN where owners love the cars but are sitting there baulking at £10k minimum for rust/paint/suspension work etc. It's pretty easy to drop that as a start on restoring old cars and the E28s are 30 years old....

Anyway, I think this looks glorious. May there be many Americans who agree and put their money down.



https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/lo...

[louiebaby]

braddo said:

Anyway, I think this looks glorious. May there be many Americans who agree and put their money down.



https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/lo...

My next door neighbour had a JPS Esprit when I was growing up. If spent most of my teenage years under a cover, in his garage, with paint tins all over it.

I wish I'd tried to buy it off him now...

[Rod200SX]

Car isn't great but popped up and thought you lot might have a wee laugh, description meets every 'cheep motah mate' cliche there is.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/porsche/porsche-cayenne-...

[ATM]

Does this look good value for money?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222280396787

[sutts]

Gruber said:

Output Flange said:

I'm not entirely sure to be honest - I wasn't hugely active on there.

I don't think numbers have been in triple digits for quite a few years now. If you think back 10 years to when you could (and I did) buy a complete (albeit project) car for under £2k a bunch of them disappeared around then. A handful have been lost to accidents over the last 5 years too.

One of the inevitable consequences of the uplift in prices is that there are a few M5 VIN plates attached to shells that didn't leave the factory as such. It probably doesn't really matter in practical terms, but it's certainly happening.

I think mine left the country and went to Ireland after I sold it. I used to pop into the forum from time to time just to see if there was any news on the old girl, but the complete lack of anything much at all on that forum for months now means I've stopped checking.

Edited by Gruber on Tuesday 4th April 21:00

Gruber, you're old M5 is now living in Rochester, about 10 miles away from me. The owner linked to a YT video of it driving about his local roads enthusiastically a couple of months ago on here in an M5 thread. I'll try and find it.