Cheap 996 gt3 mk1 .............
Discussion
Okay - it is a C4 shell and if one of those were to be available with a dead engine it could probably be secured for £6k if not less... To someone looking for a car to drive with no particular desire to ever move it on, is there a threshold at which it could make sense for someone to acquire this and swap all of the important bits... ?
I am thinking Wheeler Dealers economics here, i.e. someone with the space and time to do a good portion if not all of the shell swap themselves. Any thoughts on that? The chassis seems questionable, but there may be value in the driveline for someone out to build a budget bitsa? Such a number might not even start with a 2 though, right?
I am thinking Wheeler Dealers economics here, i.e. someone with the space and time to do a good portion if not all of the shell swap themselves. Any thoughts on that? The chassis seems questionable, but there may be value in the driveline for someone out to build a budget bitsa? Such a number might not even start with a 2 though, right?
PurpleEnemy said:
Whack 3. June this year.
|http://thumbsnap.com/2ayaia61[/url]
Is that timing right? Buyer posted this, early June? Was it dinged before or after?|http://thumbsnap.com/2ayaia61[/url]crisp packet said:
Not going abroad. Coming to the Cotswolds with me! Lots of interest I'm told so really pleased to have secured it. Seller seems like a really genuine guy. Looking forward to using it as intended and not worried at all about future value. Will do my best to update but history of being a long time lurker and seldom poster. Must do better!
At no point did I say the car earlier in the thread that was shown being repaired is the same car. It could be, but if it is - then it must have had four different accidents, as I have seen the first front end crash damage on a photo that the owner who had it a couple of years ago had from the previous owner. The front end was mangled like a tin can that had been stamped on. The N/S wheel and strut were smashed off the car.
This is clearly when the car was front clipped with the front of a blue 996 donor car.
This is clearly when the car was front clipped with the front of a blue 996 donor car.
I owned this car for 12 months - from its initial advert on PH which has been posted earlier. I added the bbs rims and managed to use the car without putting it into any scenery or bending it in any way .
I can say with validity the car is NOT the one which was lightly damaged in a track incident . I had a photo from the guy I purchased the car from showing the original damage - I am having difficulty finding the picture at the moment , but can state the car looked like it had hit the rear of a truck , with the bonnet missing and wings torn back to the screen . In fact the dash still showed some signs of movement damage .
It looked like it had hit hard and fast and gone under the protection bar found on the rear of lorries, and simply peeled the car back to the A pillars accordingly. The screen, front leg, battery area, bonnet, wings and associated inner wings were basically missing . I was told Porsche repair panels were used , and the repairs looked ok - even if some of the under bonnet plastics and dash bore the marks of impact. It was a cat C write off and was bought as salvage by the previous owner to me from a sports salvage dealer in Nottingham ... Some detective work should yield the original pictures as it was widely advertised at that time.
I bought it knowing it was smacked up, but on the understanding it was repaired to Porsche standards, using genuine parts ..
Subsequently finding out the parts(front of the car) were genuine, but from another 996 (blue) came as a surprise to say the least .
Like everything it has a value , but that is determined by the car and its potted history, and not the price of good ones .
I can say with validity the car is NOT the one which was lightly damaged in a track incident . I had a photo from the guy I purchased the car from showing the original damage - I am having difficulty finding the picture at the moment , but can state the car looked like it had hit the rear of a truck , with the bonnet missing and wings torn back to the screen . In fact the dash still showed some signs of movement damage .
It looked like it had hit hard and fast and gone under the protection bar found on the rear of lorries, and simply peeled the car back to the A pillars accordingly. The screen, front leg, battery area, bonnet, wings and associated inner wings were basically missing . I was told Porsche repair panels were used , and the repairs looked ok - even if some of the under bonnet plastics and dash bore the marks of impact. It was a cat C write off and was bought as salvage by the previous owner to me from a sports salvage dealer in Nottingham ... Some detective work should yield the original pictures as it was widely advertised at that time.
I bought it knowing it was smacked up, but on the understanding it was repaired to Porsche standards, using genuine parts ..
Subsequently finding out the parts(front of the car) were genuine, but from another 996 (blue) came as a surprise to say the least .
Like everything it has a value , but that is determined by the car and its potted history, and not the price of good ones .
lemmingjames said:
Yes, but heritage
what, like the 996GT3 did not spawn the race car which is perhaps the most successful 911 in terms of racing victories? or that in Mk1 form is the last road-going 911 with sporting aspirations to be handbuild at Weissach by the Motorsport guys? just playing the devil's advocate here, btw...
but somehow I've got the feeling that in 10yrs time it will matter less than now if a car has had a prang, and we will be looking at the quality of maintainenance etc.
Cheburator mk2 said:
Isn't it funny how people don't mind a 2.7RS/SC RS which has been crashed a bit while rallying, but go mental as soon as a 996GT3 in prang is mentioned.
True.. But with the past owners damage report that's what..... 5 or 6 times this car has been badly damaged? Don't get me wrong, if it was cheap enough I would buy it even knowing the history. Be a great track car.
Dan911 said:
True.. But with the past owners damage report that's what..... 5 or 6 times this car has been badly damaged?
Don't get me wrong, if it was cheap enough I would buy it even knowing the history. Be a great track car.
I hear you and yes, one or two prangs should be fine, five or six is just bad luckDon't get me wrong, if it was cheap enough I would buy it even knowing the history. Be a great track car.
and I can see a pattern developing here... Most of the damage appears superficial except the full frontal one described by one of the posters above. No idea if it is the same on a 911, but on a 928 for example the whole front section is designed to be easily replaced in case of an accident. So perhaps even that one is not that bad if it has been done well.
Lastly, if unmolested (and who is to say they don't have a hidden history) early cars are reportedly changing hands for around the £50k mark, then £30-odd thousand for this one is the new norm?
Btw, no connection with the seller, just trying to show the debate has a different side too...
Cheburator mk2 said:
what, like the 996GT3 did not spawn the race car which is perhaps the most successful 911 in terms of racing victories? or that in Mk1 form is the last road-going 911 with sporting aspirations to be handbuild at Weissach by the Motorsport guys?
just playing the devil's advocate here, btw...
but somehow I've got the feeling that in 10yrs time it will matter less than now if a car has had a prang, and we will be looking at the quality of maintainenance etc.
yes but beard appeal vs clean shaven ;-)just playing the devil's advocate here, btw...
but somehow I've got the feeling that in 10yrs time it will matter less than now if a car has had a prang, and we will be looking at the quality of maintainenance etc.
over time itll change no doubt but the cars are still 'new ' enough that it causes people issues. Wonder how many RS's are still in this country vs 996 GT3's (i know its been discussed before but being lazy to search)
IknowJoseph said:
I contacted the seller regarding the plate and he tells me that he's not interested in selling it separately. If anyone does buy this car and wants to part with the registration (it's probably the cursed bit anyway), please let me know.
The only thing I'd be interested in, if it helps, are the screws that hold the number plates on… I have had the chance to buy it from the last two owners and despite the fact I have been in it at maximum velocity and can assure you it's ballistic, and the allure of it being a GT3, I wouldn't touch the Orange Armco Magnet with a barge pole... Let alone 'invest' my money in it. Good luck to whoever ends up with it, at least you'll be able to pretend you're Trigger from Only Fools and Horses at the pub and puff you chest out like Foghorn Leghorn and announce "I say, I say, I say, I have the only known GT3 broom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUl6PooveJE
I have this now, (and no, I don't pretend I'm Trigger in it!).
It's a CAT C and it's had some damage, largely superficial, but at the end of the day, it's a cheap GT3 and handles like it should (obviously some people have had a bit of bad luck in it in it's past, but that's the nature of the beast!)
I've wanted a Gen 1 GT3 for a long time, and nearly bought one last year for around £45k. Would it have been any better than this? Probably not, but it would have cost me over 50% as much again just because it's had a knock (or 3!). So I get the car I want and ample change to buy a 968 Club sport! (or save the money for when it's my turn to bin it!!).
15 years ago, I bought a 1980 3.0SC which was caged and fitted with a 930 turbo engine and that also had a chequered history, 3 shades of blue, 4 different engines, creases in the wings, 2 different gearboxes, you know, all the usual stuff that you expect when you buy a car which is track focussed. If I wanted a mint SC or 930 turbo, I wouldn't have bought that one, and if it was mint, the chances are, it would have never been driven in anger anyway, so what's the point.
The main difference between that and this is that my old SC's damage wasn't documented on the V5C and didn't show up on any HPI report, and there weren't pictures of it on the internet, but at the end of the day, you buy the car with your eyes and head if you want to drive it.
Let's face it, GT3's were built to be driven hard and taken on the track, and with that, you expect them to have a few bumps and bruises. How many GT3's that are up for sale that look like the real deal and never been involved in a knock, are actually that? My guess it that the majority of them have had something happen to then. These cars are 15 years old now after all, and there's no point in cars like these been wrapped up in a carcoon and locked away.
I've bought CAT C's before and I will buy them again. At the end of the day, you get a lot more car for your money. There will always be a stigma attached to a CAT C car and that will always reflect in the ability to sell the car on at a later date, but when you buy a CAT C, you do so knowing this fact anyway and you know that you're never going to be able to sell it for £50k.
Then you also have to look at restoring cars and to their real value. I have a number of cars in my collection, some of them heavily restored. I have a 1968 Auto Union variant which if anyone looked at it, they would have laughed and walked away (as many did!). It needed a full resto and then some. The only difference was that was plagued with tin worn and not accident damage. However, the end result is the same, both cars have been fully rebuilt. Who's the say the Auto Union should have ever seen the light of day again? If it was the victim of an accident and not tin worm, any insurance assessor would have just written write off, uneconomical to repair and got back in to his car and gone to his next job.
The same with my Imp Rally car and Audi 80quattro hill climb cars. Both car have been fully rebuilt and were both in worse condition than the GT3 prior to the start of the resto. Put it this way, you don't get much in the way of an Audi 80 quattro for £250!!
I'm fully aware of the cars history and it bothers me not one iota as I paid for it what I considered to be a fair price given it's history.
At the end of the day, it's still a GT3, it still goes like stink, it's in the best colour, the paint job has been very well done, it handles like a GT3 should, it sounds superb, and I get smiles per mile.
I don't want a Porsche to lock away, I have a nr concours 914 and a nr concours manual 964 C2, but given the current values of these variants, it's now got to the point where I don't want to ever get them out of the garage just incase something happens to them.
Cars like this are meant to be driven, and whilst I've got it, I will enjoy it!
It's a CAT C and it's had some damage, largely superficial, but at the end of the day, it's a cheap GT3 and handles like it should (obviously some people have had a bit of bad luck in it in it's past, but that's the nature of the beast!)
I've wanted a Gen 1 GT3 for a long time, and nearly bought one last year for around £45k. Would it have been any better than this? Probably not, but it would have cost me over 50% as much again just because it's had a knock (or 3!). So I get the car I want and ample change to buy a 968 Club sport! (or save the money for when it's my turn to bin it!!).
15 years ago, I bought a 1980 3.0SC which was caged and fitted with a 930 turbo engine and that also had a chequered history, 3 shades of blue, 4 different engines, creases in the wings, 2 different gearboxes, you know, all the usual stuff that you expect when you buy a car which is track focussed. If I wanted a mint SC or 930 turbo, I wouldn't have bought that one, and if it was mint, the chances are, it would have never been driven in anger anyway, so what's the point.
The main difference between that and this is that my old SC's damage wasn't documented on the V5C and didn't show up on any HPI report, and there weren't pictures of it on the internet, but at the end of the day, you buy the car with your eyes and head if you want to drive it.
Let's face it, GT3's were built to be driven hard and taken on the track, and with that, you expect them to have a few bumps and bruises. How many GT3's that are up for sale that look like the real deal and never been involved in a knock, are actually that? My guess it that the majority of them have had something happen to then. These cars are 15 years old now after all, and there's no point in cars like these been wrapped up in a carcoon and locked away.
I've bought CAT C's before and I will buy them again. At the end of the day, you get a lot more car for your money. There will always be a stigma attached to a CAT C car and that will always reflect in the ability to sell the car on at a later date, but when you buy a CAT C, you do so knowing this fact anyway and you know that you're never going to be able to sell it for £50k.
Then you also have to look at restoring cars and to their real value. I have a number of cars in my collection, some of them heavily restored. I have a 1968 Auto Union variant which if anyone looked at it, they would have laughed and walked away (as many did!). It needed a full resto and then some. The only difference was that was plagued with tin worn and not accident damage. However, the end result is the same, both cars have been fully rebuilt. Who's the say the Auto Union should have ever seen the light of day again? If it was the victim of an accident and not tin worm, any insurance assessor would have just written write off, uneconomical to repair and got back in to his car and gone to his next job.
The same with my Imp Rally car and Audi 80quattro hill climb cars. Both car have been fully rebuilt and were both in worse condition than the GT3 prior to the start of the resto. Put it this way, you don't get much in the way of an Audi 80 quattro for £250!!
I'm fully aware of the cars history and it bothers me not one iota as I paid for it what I considered to be a fair price given it's history.
At the end of the day, it's still a GT3, it still goes like stink, it's in the best colour, the paint job has been very well done, it handles like a GT3 should, it sounds superb, and I get smiles per mile.
I don't want a Porsche to lock away, I have a nr concours 914 and a nr concours manual 964 C2, but given the current values of these variants, it's now got to the point where I don't want to ever get them out of the garage just incase something happens to them.
Cars like this are meant to be driven, and whilst I've got it, I will enjoy it!
Edited by Coxy914 on Saturday 11th October 22:47
Coxy914 said:
I have this now, (and no, I don't pretend I'm Trigger in it!).
It's a CAT C and it's had some damage, largely superficial, but at the end of the day, it's a cheap GT3 and handles like it should (obviously some people have had a bit of bad luck in it in it's past, but that's the nature of the beast!)
I've wanted a Gen 1 GT3 for a long time, and nearly bought one last year for around £45k. Would it have been any better than this? Probably not, but it would have cost me over 50% as much again just because it's had a knock (or 3!). So I get the car I want and ample change to buy a 968 Club sport! (or save the money for when it's my turn to bin it!!).
15 years ago, I bought a 1980 3.0SC which was caged and fitted with a 930 turbo engine and that also had a chequered history, 3 shades of blue, 4 different engines, creases in the wings, 2 different gearboxes, you know, all the usual stuff that you expect when you buy a car which is track focussed. If I wanted a mint SC or 930 turbo, I wouldn't have bought that one, and if it was mint, the chances are, it would have never been driven in anger anyway, so what's the point.
The main difference between that and this is that my old SC's damage wasn't documented on the V5C and didn't show up on any HPI report, and there weren't pictures of it on the internet, but at the end of the day, you buy the car with your eyes and head if you want to drive it.
Let's face it, GT3's were built to be driven hard and taken on the track, and with that, you expect them to have a few bumps and bruises. How many GT3's that are up for sale that look like the real deal and never been involved in a knock, are actually that? My guess it that the majority of them have had something happen to then. These cars are 15 years old now after all, and there's no point in cars like these been wrapped up in a carcoon and locked away.
I've bought CAT C's before and I will buy them again. At the end of the day, you get a lot more car for your money. There will always be a stigma attached to a CAT C car and that will always reflect in the ability to sell the car on at a later date, but when you buy a CAT C, you do so knowing this fact anyway and you know that you're never going to be able to sell it for £50k.
Then you also have to look at restoring cars and to their real value. I have a number of cars in my collection, some of them heavily restored. I have a 1968 Auto Union variant which if anyone looked at it, they would have laughed and walked away (as many did!). It needed a full resto and then some. The only difference was that was plagued with tin worn and not accident damage. However, the end result is the same, both cars have been fully rebuilt. Who's the say the Auto Union should have ever seen the light of day again? If it was the victim of an accident and not tin worm, any insurance assessor would have just written write off, uneconomical to repair and got back in to his car and gone to his next job.
The same with my Imp Rally car and Audi 80quattro hill climb cars. Both car have been fully rebuilt and were both in worse condition than the GT3 prior to the start of the resto. Put it this way, you don't get much in the way of an Audi 80 quattro for £250!!
I'm fully aware of the cars history and it bothers me not one iota as I paid for it what I considered to be a fair price given it's history.
At the end of the day, it's still a GT3, it still goes like stink, it's in the best colour, the paint job has been very well done, it handles like a GT3 should, it sounds superb, and I get smiles per mile.
I don't want a Porsche to lock away, I have a nr concours 914 and a nr concours manual 964 C2, but given the current values of these variants, it's now got to the point where I don't want to ever get them out of the garage just incase something happens to them.
Cars like this are meant to be driven, and whilst I've got it, I will enjoy it!
It's a CAT C and it's had some damage, largely superficial, but at the end of the day, it's a cheap GT3 and handles like it should (obviously some people have had a bit of bad luck in it in it's past, but that's the nature of the beast!)
I've wanted a Gen 1 GT3 for a long time, and nearly bought one last year for around £45k. Would it have been any better than this? Probably not, but it would have cost me over 50% as much again just because it's had a knock (or 3!). So I get the car I want and ample change to buy a 968 Club sport! (or save the money for when it's my turn to bin it!!).
15 years ago, I bought a 1980 3.0SC which was caged and fitted with a 930 turbo engine and that also had a chequered history, 3 shades of blue, 4 different engines, creases in the wings, 2 different gearboxes, you know, all the usual stuff that you expect when you buy a car which is track focussed. If I wanted a mint SC or 930 turbo, I wouldn't have bought that one, and if it was mint, the chances are, it would have never been driven in anger anyway, so what's the point.
The main difference between that and this is that my old SC's damage wasn't documented on the V5C and didn't show up on any HPI report, and there weren't pictures of it on the internet, but at the end of the day, you buy the car with your eyes and head if you want to drive it.
Let's face it, GT3's were built to be driven hard and taken on the track, and with that, you expect them to have a few bumps and bruises. How many GT3's that are up for sale that look like the real deal and never been involved in a knock, are actually that? My guess it that the majority of them have had something happen to then. These cars are 15 years old now after all, and there's no point in cars like these been wrapped up in a carcoon and locked away.
I've bought CAT C's before and I will buy them again. At the end of the day, you get a lot more car for your money. There will always be a stigma attached to a CAT C car and that will always reflect in the ability to sell the car on at a later date, but when you buy a CAT C, you do so knowing this fact anyway and you know that you're never going to be able to sell it for £50k.
Then you also have to look at restoring cars and to their real value. I have a number of cars in my collection, some of them heavily restored. I have a 1968 Auto Union variant which if anyone looked at it, they would have laughed and walked away (as many did!). It needed a full resto and then some. The only difference was that was plagued with tin worn and not accident damage. However, the end result is the same, both cars have been fully rebuilt. Who's the say the Auto Union should have ever seen the light of day again? If it was the victim of an accident and not tin worm, any insurance assessor would have just written write off, uneconomical to repair and got back in to his car and gone to his next job.
The same with my Imp Rally car and Audi 80quattro hill climb cars. Both car have been fully rebuilt and were both in worse condition than the GT3 prior to the start of the resto. Put it this way, you don't get much in the way of an Audi 80 quattro for £250!!
I'm fully aware of the cars history and it bothers me not one iota as I paid for it what I considered to be a fair price given it's history.
At the end of the day, it's still a GT3, it still goes like stink, it's in the best colour, the paint job has been very well done, it handles like a GT3 should, it sounds superb, and I get smiles per mile.
I don't want a Porsche to lock away, I have a nr concours 914 and a nr concours manual 964 C2, but given the current values of these variants, it's now got to the point where I don't want to ever get them out of the garage just incase something happens to them.
Cars like this are meant to be driven, and whilst I've got it, I will enjoy it!
Edited by Coxy914 on Saturday 11th October 22:47
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