RE: Lorries to be banned from overtaking?
Discussion
craigrevell said:
They should have a minimum speed of 56mph, unless the weather becomes an issue
Not really an option, as EC legistlation has forced trucks to be limited to 85kph (effectively 56mph) for some years.
However, as a former truck driver, I can saw that a lot of the problem is caused by discourteous drivers who do not ease-off and allow the overtaking vehicle to complete its manoeuver and follow too close to anything in front.
Hoover33 said:
My personal view is lorries should be allowed on the roads between 8pm and 5am only. The rest of the time they are a nuisance either slowing traffic by over taking as per this article, or by accidents.
These accidents take ages to clear up usually causing hrs worth of jams and are pre-dominantly the lorry drivers fault.
Just remember that when you go down to the supermarket to get your loaf of bread or milk, or get your post delivered, or your spare parts delivered, or the power to your home, or your new car or the fire engine that saves your life, that involved trucks working during all the hours of the day. Do you think hauliers want £100k of assets stuck in a traffic jam, burning fuel? No they want to have their trucks moving earning money, just as we all want, nae need what many of them are carrying.
IIRC, in Germany you used to have to complete any overtake within a specified time (about 10s). This would stop the problem arising altogether. The no-overtaking zones were also in place on long hills. the problem then was you travelled up the hill at the speed of the slowest truck, even if you were unladen and capable of 80kph and the leading truck was laden and only travelling at 40kph (usually a Eastern Bloc Liaz).
Perhaps it all come back to the ongoing issue of who actually will enforece traffic law. If you are unlikely to get pulled for driving slowly, causing hold-ups, hogging lanes, following too close, under-taking, non-working lights, insecure loads, etc, as the cameras don't see these issues, then why worry about being caught.
Lets campaign to get the Police back out on the roads eforcing road safety and tell the politicians to stop concentrating on their money generating scamera schmes!
>> Edited by Renny on Monday 6th December 14:04
Battlecat said:
I don't think this law is a good idea. I am not as arrogant to think that just because I want to drive at 'X'mph there should be a law to stop others getting in my way. Fair enough I live in London and don't use motorways etc everyday, and therefore I can only sympathise with those of you who do regularly get stuck behind inconsiderate lorry drivers, but I can't remember a time when I've been stuck behind a HGV for an unreasonable period of time. I can see the benefit in an alternative measure to stop lorries travelling side by side over significant distances but I don’t think a ban on overtaking is the right option. As someone else said earlier the law would be punishing drivers simply doing their job, and we don’t need to create contempt between drivers. Also if lorry drivers are prevented from overtaking they will drive in chains and prevent other road users from using junctions thus creating more traffic jams and accidents which the government will use to support more cameras, road tolls, higher petrol tax, and other anti-car measures.
This strikes me as another example of a bored civil servant meddling with the motorist, dreaming up ideas to kick road users in the nuts and justify his/her job – feck off !!
£0.02 well spent I think.
Its about turning a duel carrigeway into a single carrigeway for the time the maneuver takes, and turing motorways into duel carraigeways, not about a single drivers delay, this problem is esp rampant when a lorry decides to overtake a few others at 2mph difference in heavy traffic.
This also forces traffic from lane 1 across into lane 2 then again lane 3 to get past the lorries, now do you think that is safe considering the observation and signaling skills of the majority of drivers in the UK.
maybe a few thousand more miles spent on the motorway will help you out with your way of thinking, yet another example of Londoners (inc. Politicians in this bracket) with no idea about what goes on outside there bubble.
>> Edited by thru5h on Monday 6th December 14:24
Perhaps it all come back to the ongoing issue of who actually will enforece traffic law. If you are unlikely to get pulled for driving slowly, causing hold-ups, hogging lanes, following too close, under-taking, non-working lights, insecure loads, etc, as the cameras don't see these issues, then why worry about being caught.
Lets campaign to get the Police back out on the roads eforcing road safety and tell the politicians to stop concentrating on their money generating scamera schmes!
Well said Renny!
Let the Police do the policing and the Politicians do the Bullsh***ting (only)!
Lets campaign to get the Police back out on the roads eforcing road safety and tell the politicians to stop concentrating on their money generating scamera schmes!
Well said Renny!
Let the Police do the policing and the Politicians do the Bullsh***ting (only)!
Hoover33 said:That I'm afraid is almost as good an argument as "Speeding kills", do you have any facts to back that up?
These accidents take ages to clear up usually causing hrs worth of jams and are pre-dominantly the lorry drivers fault.
I agree with the problem and do agree that there needs to be a solution but is this it? I'm in favour of the whole "open the motorways up" but feel a solution should be found to allow lorries to overtake rather than making them all travel at the speed of the slowest - once you get to a 3 lane motorway you'll have a free for all as trucks try to gain places afterall.
thru5h said:
Its about turning a duel carrigeway into a single carrigeway for the time the maneuver takes, and turing motorways into duel carraigeways, not about a single drivers delay, this problem is esp rampant when a lorry decides to overtake a few others at 2mph difference in heavy traffic.
This also forces traffic from lane 1 across into lane 2 then again lane 3 to get past the lorries, now do you think that is safe considering the observation and signaling skills of the majority of drivers in the UK.
maybe a few thousand more miles spent on the motorway will help you out with your way of thinking, yet another example of Londoners (inc. Politicians in this bracket) with no idea about what goes on outside there bubble.
>> Edited by thru5h on Monday 6th December 14:24
If you read my post again you'll see that i'm not against action to stop overtaking maneuvers that take an unreasonable time, but on the vast majority of routes and on the majority of instances the overtaking takes a few seconds which a motorist can make up after the maneuver by catching up with the other cars. Are you really saying that these seconds or few minutes over the course of a journey are that important against the interests and consiquenses to the hauliers?! I don't believe that there is that much of a problem to take such action to introduce such a law. As i said before, an alternative solution maybe, but giving a lorry driver 3 points or a fine for overtaking when its reasonable - no.
And yes i do think it is safe to push the lane 2 traffic onto lane 3 and so on to lane 4 - i don't see 1,000s of accidents caused by the current situation.
Seeing as you've a very narrow view of anyone outside of your own bubble i can assure you that i drive every weekend outside of London and if you think i should go out and spend a few more thousand miles on the motorways then thats one more car on the road, one more statistic for the Government to excuse a rise in anti-car measures.
Is it me or do the hdg drivers wait for you to get close to them then pull out on you?.Hgv drivers are always saying they are professional and car drivers are not ?.
I this comes into force then they only have themselves to blame dont they?.
I think it would be hell to get off the road as they wont let you in will they a better solution would be a ban on lorries using the roads at set times and people caught doing under 55mph on the motorway should be reported by the hgv`s and fined if they do it more than three times a week monday to friday not seven days they have enough bloody caneras on the roads dont they?.ps they speed limit needs to be 80mph in the wet 90mph in the dry.
I this comes into force then they only have themselves to blame dont they?.
I think it would be hell to get off the road as they wont let you in will they a better solution would be a ban on lorries using the roads at set times and people caught doing under 55mph on the motorway should be reported by the hgv`s and fined if they do it more than three times a week monday to friday not seven days they have enough bloody caneras on the roads dont they?.ps they speed limit needs to be 80mph in the wet 90mph in the dry.
Battlecat said:
Its about turning a duel carrigeway into a single carrigeway for the time the maneuver takes, and turing motorways into duel carraigeways, not about a single drivers delay, this problem is esp rampant when a lorry decides to overtake a few others at 2mph difference in heavy traffic.
This also forces traffic from lane 1 across into lane 2 then again lane 3 to get past the lorries, now do you think that is safe considering the observation and signaling skills of the majority of drivers in the UK.
maybe a few thousand more miles spent on the motorway will help you out with your way of thinking, yet another example of Londoners (inc. Politicians in this bracket) with no idea about what goes on outside there bubble.
>> Edited by thru5h on Monday 6th December 14:24
If you read my post again you'll see that i'm not against action to stop overtaking maneuvers that take an unreasonable time, but on the vast majority of routes and on the majority of instances the overtaking takes a few seconds which a motorist can make up after the maneuver by catching up with the other cars. Are you really saying that these seconds or few minutes over the course of a journey are that important against the interests and consiquenses to the hauliers?! I don't believe that there is that much of a problem to take such action to introduce such a law. As i said before, an alternative solution maybe, but giving a lorry driver 3 points or a fine for overtaking when its reasonable - no.
And yes i do think it is safe to push the lane 2 traffic onto lane 3 and so on to lane 4 - i don't see 1,000s of accidents caused by the current situation.
Seeing as you've a very narrow view of anyone outside of your own bubble i can assure you that i drive every weekend outside of London and if you think i should go out and spend a few more thousand miles on the motorways then thats one more car on the road, one more statistic for the Government to excuse a rise in anti-car measures.
familiarise yourself with the term bottleneck + 70mph vehicles and you MAY be able to comprehend how a few seconds matter
As for your "comeback" I wont justify it with a response lol.
soory but I forgot to add that if they had a hole in their as*** they would have known two lanes on the a42/m42 was bloody stupid in the first place still they can add another lane and cause more hold ups for us all thats the root if the problem they use a band aid when a bandage is needed any one agree ps I use this road alot and its already fally to pieces
robyn said:
Ive got a problem with this, if you have a long stream of lorries which all have the safe breaking distance of 30 cm between them how are the cars supposed to enter and exit motorways etc.
I cant see lorry drivers not only living with the slow lane but also making sure that car drivers are able to slot in and out happening.
Very good point, to which I will add:
How do me get to see the road signs that are not over the carriageway - its hard enough now when you are looking for a junction and cannot see the sign as some perfectly position lorry is between it and you.
thru5h said:
familiarise yourself with the term bottleneck + 70mph vehicles and you MAY be able to comprehend how a few seconds matter
As for your "comeback" I wont justify it with a response lol.
Its a few seconds in most cases. If your time is that important you wouldn't be writing posts here. As i've been saying approapriate preventative measures are fine but thats not what we are told at this stage.
I'll take that as a withdrawal of your earlier statement!!
Hoover33 said:
My personal view is lorries should be allowed on the roads between 8pm and 5am only. The rest of the time they are a nuisance either slowing traffic by over taking as per this article, or by accidents.
These accidents take ages to clear up usually causing hrs worth of jams and are pre-dominantly the lorry drivers fault.
Can I point you in the direction of the real world?Two threads already running: Some interesting stuff on both.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=141163
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=140985
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=141163
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=140985
Perhaps Dual Carriageways would no longer be treated as 'Duel' Carriageways for elephant race duelling?
Also means that underpowered/overloaded vehicles would no longer be viable. Low performing trucks might attract the Eye of Plod and a vehicle inspector.....
It is an idea which is certainly worth consideration - but would the HGV mahouts allow anyone to enter their 30cm inter-vehicle space in order to reach the exit slip?
Once heard on CB (before the days of mobile phones):
"Are all truckers queer?"
"No we're b£oody well not!"
"Well why do you spend so much time staring so closely at eachothers' ar$es then! Leave more space!"
>> Edited by nickwilcock on Monday 6th December 18:00
Also means that underpowered/overloaded vehicles would no longer be viable. Low performing trucks might attract the Eye of Plod and a vehicle inspector.....
It is an idea which is certainly worth consideration - but would the HGV mahouts allow anyone to enter their 30cm inter-vehicle space in order to reach the exit slip?
Once heard on CB (before the days of mobile phones):
"Are all truckers queer?"
"No we're b£oody well not!"
"Well why do you spend so much time staring so closely at eachothers' ar$es then! Leave more space!"
>> Edited by nickwilcock on Monday 6th December 18:00
1. Restrict ALL HGV classes to lane one @ max 56MPH.
2. Mandatory fitment of distance sensor set to say min 60-80 yards between HGV's.
3. Tractor units restricted to a max load weight, based on specific power output (that should stop cheapskate operators useing units not up to the job of maintaining an acceptible road speed when shown the slightest incline)
There is no justification for HGV's overtaking each other at +.5 - 1.0 MPH IMO, I see folks useing the argument that they don't hold you up for too long so don't add to your journey time, well in that case tell me just how much time these HGV drivers will shave off their own journey time by going .5 MPH faster than the next guy over lets say an 200 mile trip
let alone the mayhem/frustration they cause in the first place.
Sorted
2. Mandatory fitment of distance sensor set to say min 60-80 yards between HGV's.
3. Tractor units restricted to a max load weight, based on specific power output (that should stop cheapskate operators useing units not up to the job of maintaining an acceptible road speed when shown the slightest incline)
There is no justification for HGV's overtaking each other at +.5 - 1.0 MPH IMO, I see folks useing the argument that they don't hold you up for too long so don't add to your journey time, well in that case tell me just how much time these HGV drivers will shave off their own journey time by going .5 MPH faster than the next guy over lets say an 200 mile trip
let alone the mayhem/frustration they cause in the first place. Sorted
Morning,
well done nick.
you've sumed up us truckers to a T....
I can tell your not a pro driver like wot we is.
"underpowered/overloaded vehicles" you say.. my unit is normaly pulling 44000Kg (thats totaly legal), but it only has 460hp (going through a twin split box) and yes does go slow uphill on a motorway, as low as 35 on some stretches. but when i'm unladen, i'll do 56 all day long.
Then you go on to say "but would the HGV mahouts allow anyone to enter their 30cm inter-vehicle space in order to reach the exit slip?" May the question be "will the HGV's put up with cars flying past and expecting to be let in? or will the cars just cut us up as usual?!?
WE are just doing a job, and trying to do it well, but it ain't easy. there's not many of us left. lets not make it worse for us.
well done nick.
you've sumed up us truckers to a T....
I can tell your not a pro driver like wot we is.
"underpowered/overloaded vehicles" you say.. my unit is normaly pulling 44000Kg (thats totaly legal), but it only has 460hp (going through a twin split box) and yes does go slow uphill on a motorway, as low as 35 on some stretches. but when i'm unladen, i'll do 56 all day long.
Then you go on to say "but would the HGV mahouts allow anyone to enter their 30cm inter-vehicle space in order to reach the exit slip?" May the question be "will the HGV's put up with cars flying past and expecting to be let in? or will the cars just cut us up as usual?!?
WE are just doing a job, and trying to do it well, but it ain't easy. there's not many of us left. lets not make it worse for us.
New laws, distance sensors, lane restrictions and gizmatronic devices on HGV's will never compensate for bad driving.
As someone who drives both an HGV and a sportscar, I am 100% behind this new ruling - it works very well on the continent and the time lost in the HGV under this rule is neglible compared to the time lost in the sportscar without it.
Distance sensors can't ever work because of people cutting into the gap in front of the HGV - the trucker would always be on the brakes!
As someone who drives both an HGV and a sportscar, I am 100% behind this new ruling - it works very well on the continent and the time lost in the HGV under this rule is neglible compared to the time lost in the sportscar without it.
Distance sensors can't ever work because of people cutting into the gap in front of the HGV - the trucker would always be on the brakes!
jonnyb said:
Also am I the only one who thinks the new juction where the M6 Toll and the M42 meets going south is just about the worst peice of road design I have ever seen? Someone has got there sums badly wrong on that road and needs to be taken out and shot!
Agreed. Going north is possibly worse though?
And just about everywhere else newly built come to think of it.
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