RE: PH needs a BTCC reporter!

[Riley Blue]

I thought a reporter was being requested, not a photographer. In any case, to get trackside as a photographer you'll need insurance.

[zebedee]

Garlick said:

We can cope with that, it's the way we've done things for years and I love the fact we open the doors to enthusiasts to write. Motorsport articles can be dull, these will offer something new. If those on 'social media' want to get involved they can, if they want to read a 'normal' report they can choose from hundreds (including the titles you identify)

I just don't think you are opening the door to enthusiasts, you are opening the door to anyone with a name to put into a hat. You could end up giving a pass to someone who just wants a free way in to meet up with his mates, have a few beers and have his picture taken with Plato.

Or, you could have some kind of scholarship thing and make people work a little harder to get this frankly really rather good opportunity, which will also serve to almost inevitably increase the product that you get back and people like me will be reading.

[zebedee]

I WISH said:

I think it's a really good idea.

This is not necessarily about about saving the three pounds fifty that PH would otherwise have paid a "proper" hack. A fan of the sport could give an alternative view to that of a jaded journo .... a fresh different perspective perhaps. Or just a different take to the usual stuff.

You never know .... it could be fun ..... and produce something of real interest.

Bring it on!

They usually just get it wrong though, or are so worried about getting it wrong they don't offer any opinion at all.

[storminnorman]

83ste said:

This is extremely poor stuff from the company that owns Autosport and Motorsport News.

A few reactions from social media:

"A properly bad move by @PistonHeads."

"Ahhh @PistonHeads… because paying for an actual journalist to work is just too damn hard."

"Could've been a great scholarship/new talent scheme, real missed opportunity."

"Oh my, this is terrible. Now billys don't even have to set up their own blog for a pass."

"Names out of a hat, too. Top quality guaranteed..."

"Wow. This is degrading. If my independent Web site that launched less than eight months ago, can pay writers, how in the world can they not? And clearly going about it the wrong way, waving a free credential in return for a report. Unbelievable!"

I agree with them all.

I think that's fairly reactionary. I'm interested with the implication that you're only a journalist if you're paid for it. Congratulations if you make money from writing, let me know how it works out. I'm not even sure what journalism is anymore, you can spend five minutes opening a blog and making it look shiny and bang, you can be an journalist too. Race reports are painfully dull, the best content is in magazines and paywalls.

Here's my perspective - as an aspiring writer and general yoof this kind of thing is fantastic - for the price of fuel you get a weekend out and a chance to write some drivel on a big site with a lot of visitors. As angry microblogger #4396759 puts it, "waving a free credential in return for a report. Unbelievable!11!11one!". I don't see anything wrong with that, why should you get paid before demonstrating you can write a legible report?

Variety is great on news sites. The articles I consistently read the most on Pistonheads are the Carpool submissions - every time it's something new and different. No offense to the staff; that's just my preference.

Anyway, I digress - this is a great opportunity and I'll throw my name into the mix. The only thing I think PH has done wrong is be a bit scant on the details - when will you make the draw for Donington?

[Riley Blue]

What about the poor buggers who (try to) earn their living as motorsport reporters. I bet they're over the moon at this idea.

[zebedee]

storminnorman said:

Anyway, I digress - this is a great opportunity and I'll throw my name into the mix. The only thing I think PH has done wrong is be a bit scant on the details - when will you make the draw for Donington?

I'm interested to know: would you have preferred, as someone who considers you have something useful to add, to have been able to demonstrate that you are a more meritorious choice than others, to increase your chances or are you happy with names out of a hat and you'll read whatever comes back?

[chevronb37]

I'm pretty torn on the merit of this - or more particularly the manner of its introduction.

I've been writing about motor racing as an amateur for several years. I'm lucky to be connected with one industry-recognised, internationally-published magazine. Having my name in the list of editorial staff there has opened some doors for which I'm enormously grateful. It's also given me access to a deputy editor (also a PH member) who has been generous enough to give up his time to offer me some proper, journalistic training. This has been invaluable.

Beyond that, I've dedicated hundreds, if not thousands, of hours refining my writing during that time. I put an enormous amount of time into learning my subject and also the art of writing itself. Can I please suggest that the lucky winners are at least exposed to some training from 'real' journalists? The name picked from the hat might belong to a hugely enthusiastic blogger. It could equally be somebody who fancies a jolly.

With so little meritocracy applied to the selection process, sadly neither the quality of output, nor the genuine enthusiasm of the writer, can be guaranteed. However, this is truly extraordinary opportunity for somebody. PH is virtually impenetrable (I should know - I've tried!) so the opportunity is a very worthy one. I just hope it goes to a) somebody who appreciates it and b) that PH devotes some time to the winner(s) to help them write as well as possible and shows them the changes made during the sub-edit. That is by far the best time to learn how to create copy which is credible and ready to be published.

Final thought - as for those who earn their livings from writing about cars, this might be the best thing that could happen. By offering this kind of status to an amateur it should highlight quite how good the best really are. For example, read the blog of some tennager talking about F1 from his/her bedroom. Now read Nigel Roebuck. The difference is stark. The tone, authority and craftsmanship of a Roebuck feature exist in a different paradigm. By comparison, many amaeur blogs are cringe-worthy in terms of, not just content, but also grammar, sentence construction and vocabulary.

[storminnorman]

zebedee said:

I'm interested to know: would you have preferred, as someone who considers you have something useful to add, to have been able to demonstrate that you are a more meritorious choice than others, to increase your chances or are you happy with names out of a hat and you'll read whatever comes back?

Names out of a hat. Why? I don't want to read a succession of tryhard writers who have spent the weekend working on their syntax and studying autospurt articles for a how-to. It's not really about giving the entrants an equal chance, it's giving the readers variety. What I understand from the article is that PH is looking for a fan's eye view. I want the truth first and foremost, not someone who has spent the whole afternoon gathering identikit quotes from drivers.

Chevronb37 - I appreciate what you are saying and the experience which enables you to say it, but I don't agree. I can't think of anything more stifling than giving someone the opportunity to write their own standalone view on the race, and then encouraging that "real journalists" give them guidance. True meritocracy would be telling the man on the corner to go on his jolly and take a pen and paper. It's not going to be a succession of literary artworks on touring cars, it'll be true, real and refreshing to read(for me at least). I can think of no better way of developing my writing than constantly reading the widest possible variety of work, be it good or bad.

Like I said it would perhaps be a bit less contentious if PH cleared things up a bit. Are you looking for a pseudo reporter, or do you want joe bloggs to write about the burger prices and the view from copse?

[prossett]

I call bull on the wanting to "open the door for enthusiasts" - if that was the real motivation then PH would rightfully offer to pay said amateurs a fair rate for their work.

This is just an example of corporate greed in trying to squeeze the bottom line by taking advantage of eager hopefuls - shame on Piston Heads!

You want fresh perspectives for your business' content? Then pay the going rates for them!

What's next? A great opportunity for eager and free photography enthusiasts? A wonderful experience (unpaid) for web designers? A chance to edit excellent motoring content (compensation will be in the form of pats on the back)

Unfair

[Matt Bird]

Craikeybaby said:

ukaskew said:

Andrew[MG] said:

What is the "PH-BTCC media alliance"?

Not sure, because I don't think a single word was published after rounds one, two and three on this site (happy to be corrected though!)

I didn't notice anything either.

It's part of a wider Haymarket agreement:

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...

We don't have the manpower to send staff to every event, we will try and cover as much as possible. We should be getting highlights videos to publish after each race, it's very much finalising obligations at present. I appreciate it's a little late to be doing this but it's the situation we've been faced with.

Anyway, thanks for all the submissions this afternoon, my inbox has been inundated with far more than predicted. Donington has been sorted but I'll be in contact about future rounds nearer the time. Please keep them coming in!

Cheers guys,


Matt

[chevronb37]

storminnorman said:

Names out of a hat. Why? I don't want to read a succession of tryhard writers who have spent the weekend working on their syntax and studying autospurt articles for a how-to. It's not really about giving the entrants an equal chance, it's giving the readers variety. What I understand from the article is that PH is looking for a fan's eye view. I want the truth first and foremost, not someone who has spent the whole afternoon gathering identikit quotes from drivers.

Chevronb37 - I appreciate what you are saying and the experience which enables you to say it, but I don't agree. I can't think of anything more stifling than giving someone the opportunity to write their own standalone view on the race, and then encouraging that "real journalists" give them guidance. True meritocracy would be telling the man on the corner to go on his jolly and take a pen and paper. It's not going to be a succession of literary artworks on touring cars, it'll be true, real and refreshing to read(for me at least). I can think of no better way of developing my writing than constantly reading the widest possible variety of work, be it good or bad.

Like I said it would perhaps be a bit less contentious if PH cleared things up a bit. Are you looking for a pseudo reporter, or do you want joe bloggs to write about the burger prices and the view from copse?

I take your point. I guess it depends what PH wants from the article.

I recently took a holiday to Australia and along the way called in at a few race meetings. I decided to write a warts and all account of a weekend camping at the Bathurst 1000. Before the trip, I'd watched the race and read the reports but realised there wasn't a lot of information out there on exactly what the event is like to attend, especially for the European spectator.

It was fun to try and convey, not only the drama of the race, but also what it's like to immerse oneself in the whole experience: The best places to sit; the quality of the beer; whether you're going to get thumped for supporting Nissan...that kind of stuff becomes a matter of second-hand hyperbole rather than actual first-hand narrative.

I guess this could achieve a 'man on the Clapham omnibus' style report which could offer a completely different slant on matters. A one-dimensional blow-by-blow race account is quite different to offering a full flavour of an event. Hence Autosport is excellent for the former but mostly less good for the latter.

It will be interesting to see what the chosen one comes up with.

[LordVader]

chevronb37 said:

I take your point. I guess it depends what PH wants from the article.

I recently took a holiday to Australia and along the way called in at a few race meetings. I decided to write a warts and all account of a weekend camping at the Bathurst 1000. Before the trip, I'd watched the race and read the reports but realised there wasn't a lot of information out there on exactly what the event is like to attend, especially for the European spectator.

It was fun to try and convey, not only the drama of the race, but also what it's like to immerse oneself in the whole experience: The best places to sit; the quality of the beer; whether you're going to get thumped for supporting Nissan...that kind of stuff becomes a matter of second-hand hyperbole rather than actual first-hand narrative.

I guess this could achieve a 'man on the Clapham omnibus' style report which could offer a completely different slant on matters. A one-dimensional blow-by-blow race account is quite different to offering a full flavour of an event. Hence Autosport is excellent for the former but mostly less good for the latter.

It will be interesting to see what the chosen one comes up with.

All of which is precisely what I thought was the idea behind the competition when I read about it.

The pompous guff about destroying peoples livelihoods is almost as tedious as a "proper journalistic" report of a race. Get down off your high horses for God's sake.

One of the great aspects of this site is the reader engagement, e.g. articles written by guys about their own cars, this is just an extension of that.

I suspect the very last thing that was expected in PH Towers was a series of reports that that would win international journo awards.

[RenesisEvo]

LordVader said:

One of the great aspects of this site is the reader engagement, e.g. articles written by guys about their own cars, this is just an extension of that.

I suspect the very last thing that was expected in PH Towers was a series of reports that that would win international journo awards.

Fully agree with this - hence why I will be optimistically throwing my hat into the ring.

[nsmith1180]

Garlick said:

zebedee said:

For the sake of the readers of PH, surely you can ask them to write up a couple of paragraphs first to make sure they can bring back something worth reading? Do they really need full media centre access to do what you suggest?

Its a bit demeaning to those trying to make a living out of reportng too.

We can make it legible, and it's nice to see readers (who are the enthusiasts after all) be able to tell us how the race was in layman's terms. Full access means they can meet their heroes, listen to briefings and see the cars up close. A great expereince for the true fan.

Demeaning? Not really, we've been doing this sort of thing (on and off) for years and these days bloggers carry as much weight as a trained journo. Have you seen press trips? 50/50 split now.

Sometimes it does seem we can't win

Full access also means people who havn't done the groundwork getting in the way of those of us that have slaved away for years trying to get into the BTCC. I have been running my website, and contributing to others, for over four years now and I still cant get access to every BTCC round. I am lucky Donington have chosen to give me accreditation for this weekend.

I thought PH was about serious journalism with a humorous edge, now I am not so sure. Its a slap in the face to those of us that actually work at it.

[reef67]

I wonder how many tradespeople we're putting on the breadline by doing a bit of D.I.Y???
Best of luck to whoever wins the draw.



...I'm off to build that flat-pack wardrobe, apologies to all the joiners out there

[zebedee]

I think if the title said PH needs a BTCC blogger it would be a lot clearer. It makes it look as though reporting is trivial and easy which it is not. Several people have said that proper race reports are boring, I would just suggest they are looking in the wrong place. But then again I don't really want to read about how warm the beer in one of several kiosks around the circuit is either...

Another point for the lucky winners to note - it isn't as easy as you think to go up to one of your heroes and start to interview them in an engaging and coherent way that will yield interesting results. I think someone who is a complete newbie is far more likely to get the 'identikit' responses that were feared by at least one earlier poster. To get beyond the standard flannel usually takes some work and indeed some trust from the driver concerned. Indeed, for many drivers, whose time commitments are extremely stretched in a series like BTCC, if they feel someone is asking rather inane questions then they are likely to disappear into the trailer or motorhome fairly sharpish.

[Dr Imran T]

chevronb37 said:

I'm pretty torn on the merit of this - or more particularly the manner of its introduction.

I've been writing about motor racing as an amateur for several years. I'm lucky to be connected with one industry-recognised, internationally-published magazine. Having my name in the list of editorial staff there has opened some doors for which I'm enormously grateful. It's also given me access to a deputy editor (also a PH member) who has been generous enough to give up his time to offer me some proper, journalistic training. This has been invaluable.

Beyond that, I've dedicated hundreds, if not thousands, of hours refining my writing during that time. I put an enormous amount of time into learning my subject and also the art of writing itself. Can I please suggest that the lucky winners are at least exposed to some training from 'real' journalists? The name picked from the hat might belong to a hugely enthusiastic blogger. It could equally be somebody who fancies a jolly.

With so little meritocracy applied to the selection process, sadly neither the quality of output, nor the genuine enthusiasm of the writer, can be guaranteed. However, this is truly extraordinary opportunity for somebody. PH is virtually impenetrable (I should know - I've tried!) so the opportunity is a very worthy one. I just hope it goes to a) somebody who appreciates it and b) that PH devotes some time to the winner(s) to help them write as well as possible and shows them the changes made during the sub-edit. That is by far the best time to learn how to create copy which is credible and ready to be published.

Final thought - as for those who earn their livings from writing about cars, this might be the best thing that could happen. By offering this kind of status to an amateur it should highlight quite how good the best really are. For example, read the blog of some tennager talking about F1 from his/her bedroom. Now read Nigel Roebuck. The difference is stark. The tone, authority and craftsmanship of a Roebuck feature exist in a different paradigm. By comparison, many amaeur blogs are cringe-worthy in terms of, not just content, but also grammar, sentence construction and vocabulary.

It is indeed a great opportunity for someone on PH.

Get your name down Chevronb37 - you seem very keen and able to convey your point well.

Best of luck.

[sanguinary]

I think people are reading too much into this.

I'm seeing it as a competition where the lucky winner gets two free higher access tickets to a BTCC event and in return, all they have to do is write a few paragraphs for us unlucky losers to read on the Monday evening.

[Northern_Monkey]

sanguinary said:

I think people are reading too much into this.

I'm seeing it as a competition where the lucky winner gets two free higher access tickets to a BTCC event and in return, all they have to do is write a few paragraphs for us unlucky losers to read on the Monday evening.

I don't think they are.

If Pistonheads want to use readers to provide content based on their experiences at the track then that is all well and good, there is no harm in doing so. They will also no doubt produce something different to the 'normal' reports elsewhere.

However, with an open paddock, they can easily do that with the use of their general ticket, the same as any other member of the public would use.

A media pass is just that - its a pass for the media to do their job and to try to make a living. Its not just a way in which to get in for free to watch the racing.

[Mawsleycarvalet]

Well this went down well then. It's a bit like the X factor me thinks " and the winner is".......... Could find the new Matt James but with a better hair cut. Lol. So weathers been good yeah.