DVLA lose V5, charge me for failing to insure sold vehicle
Discussion
In summary, I sold my previous car to a friend who happens to run a garage (repairs, not car sales). He and his wife wanted the car for their personal use.
V5 was signed at time of sale by both parties and sent off to the DVLA. I cancelled my insurance and he added the car to his trade insurance, so it will be listed on the MID.
In July I receive a letter from the DVLA with a penalty of £100 for failing to insure the car on X date. I reply I no longer owned the car on that date, they reply that retrospectively informing them is no mitigation and I should have returned the paperwork at the time of disposing of the vehicle. I contacted the new owner and he still hasn't had the V5 back.
I've now written to the DVLA telling them the car was and is insured by the new owner on the date in question and that they've lost the V5 which will show the date the ownership changed.
Is there anything else I should consider to add to my argument?
Thanks.
V5 was signed at time of sale by both parties and sent off to the DVLA. I cancelled my insurance and he added the car to his trade insurance, so it will be listed on the MID.
In July I receive a letter from the DVLA with a penalty of £100 for failing to insure the car on X date. I reply I no longer owned the car on that date, they reply that retrospectively informing them is no mitigation and I should have returned the paperwork at the time of disposing of the vehicle. I contacted the new owner and he still hasn't had the V5 back.
I've now written to the DVLA telling them the car was and is insured by the new owner on the date in question and that they've lost the V5 which will show the date the ownership changed.
Is there anything else I should consider to add to my argument?
Thanks.
Phil303 said:
V5 was signed at time of sale by both parties and sent off to the DVLA.
Insufficient detail. Who did what? Was the correct procedure followed? The trader keeps the V5C and doesn't send it anywhere. Note that it is the RK's responsibility to send the V5C/3 tear-off (the bit with the yellow header) to DVLA. The procedure is clearly set out on the back of the document.A lot of people make the mistake of assuming the trader will do the necessary. I never ever trust someone else to do what I'm supposed to where DVLA is concerned. Did you?
If you did do it by the book, tell the DVLA you fulfilled your responsibilities by posting the V5C (I hope you got proof of posting from the PO). They will still give you grief though. Read this and check out all the links posted therein as well.
Edited by Red Devil on Tuesday 5th August 14:17
I had the same sort of thing with my Pajero.
Do you have other proof of sale given by the trader at the time?
Send everything you can (copies) to support your case.
I printed out the original eBay advert and also a signed copy of the people at the point of sale.
Never heard after that.
Do you have other proof of sale given by the trader at the time?
Send everything you can (copies) to support your case.
I printed out the original eBay advert and also a signed copy of the people at the point of sale.
Never heard after that.
Phil303 said:
Both signed it, I sent it off. No proof of postage unfortunately.
If 'it' is the V5C tear-off, it's your decision whether to call their bluff. They might take you to court, they might not. If they do proceed, they may keep you sweating and fold just before the hearing. Otoh they may fancy their chances. It's public money they are wasting so they don't give a 
either way.I am completely anal about communicating with the DVLA. I keep hard copies of EVERYTHING (including printouts of e-mails and screenshots) and always obtain proof of posting of any document I am required to send. They haven't yet managed to lose anything but if they do they can look forward to the fight.
The worst scenario is DVLA losing a V778 when you want to assign the VRM. It happened to a mate of mine and caused him all sorts of grief.
Luckily the person who bought it is a friend so between us we'll give the DVLA whatever evidence they want. He didn't buy the car to trade; he bought it for his wife to use but it's insured on his garage insurance. If the DVLA could be bothered to check they'd see when the policy on the car started. I told them as much in my reply.
Thanks to all for the advice so far.
Thanks to all for the advice so far.
Red Devil said:
Phil303 said:
Both signed it, I sent it off. No proof of postage unfortunately.
If 'it' is the V5C tear-off, it's your decision whether to call their bluff. They might take you to court, they might not. If they do proceed, they may keep you sweating and fold just before the hearing. Otoh they may fancy their chances. It's public money they are wasting so they don't give a either way.I am completely anal about communicating with the DVLA. I keep hard copies of EVERYTHING (including printouts of e-mails and screenshots) and always obtain proof of posting of any document I am required to send. They haven't yet managed to lose anything but if they do they can look forward to the fight.
The worst scenario is DVLA losing a V778 when you want to assign the VRM. It happened to a mate of mine and caused him all sorts of grief.
WinstonWolf said:
Interpretation act, they won't take it to court...
Don't bet the farm on it though. At least one District Judge has ruled otherwise.http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr...
Other judges may have decided differently (can't find a link atm). Either way though, the decisions are not binding.
As in other areas it's high time a test case was taken to appeal by someone with the funds and cojones to do so.
The DVLA is not properly accountable to any independent appeal body and that needs to change.
Update:
DVLA have sent new V5 to current owner and last week I received an acknowledgement I no longer own the car.
However I've just received a letter saying their records still show I owned the car at the time in July they claim it wasn't insured. The fact is I didn't own the car and it was insured.
In my last correspondence I gave the details of the new owner and told them that if they checked on the MID they would see it was insured. I can't think how else to spell it out clearly to them. Any advice?
DVLA have sent new V5 to current owner and last week I received an acknowledgement I no longer own the car.
However I've just received a letter saying their records still show I owned the car at the time in July they claim it wasn't insured. The fact is I didn't own the car and it was insured.
In my last correspondence I gave the details of the new owner and told them that if they checked on the MID they would see it was insured. I can't think how else to spell it out clearly to them. Any advice?
Phil303 said:
Any advice?
'Dear DVLA,You are a bunch of useless
s and can fk off!I did not own the car from dd mmm yyyy!!!
Stop bothering me! I will not respond again!
Yours, really pissed off now!
Phil.'
If only they'd behave like a normal 'accountable' business!
I suppose, the best advice is to (once again?) send them a letter detailing dates, a copy of any receipts and if possible, a copy of your mates' insurance confirming when the car was added to his policy.
Just be glad you sold it to a mate and not some scrote who refuses to co-operate...
All the best!
ETA: And since when was it the DVLA's job to chase 'uninsured' vehicles??? Hmmm...
Jim1556 said:
'Dear DVLA,
You are a bunch of uselesss and can fk off!
I did not own the car from dd mmm yyyy!!!
Stop bothering me! I will not respond again!
Yours, really pissed off now!
Phil.'
If only they'd behave like a normal 'accountable' business!
I suppose, the best advice is to (once again?) send them a letter detailing dates, a copy of any receipts and if possible, a copy of your mates' insurance confirming when the car was added to his policy.
Just be glad you sold it to a mate and not some scrote who refuses to co-operate...
All the best!
ETA: And since when was it the DVLA's job to chase 'uninsured' vehicles??? Hmmm...
You forgot to mention PP in your local MP, Patrick Mcloughlin and the press, Best to expose stupidity and incompetence at all available levels to press for change. You are a bunch of useless
s and can fk off!I did not own the car from dd mmm yyyy!!!
Stop bothering me! I will not respond again!
Yours, really pissed off now!
Phil.'
If only they'd behave like a normal 'accountable' business!
I suppose, the best advice is to (once again?) send them a letter detailing dates, a copy of any receipts and if possible, a copy of your mates' insurance confirming when the car was added to his policy.
Just be glad you sold it to a mate and not some scrote who refuses to co-operate...
All the best!
ETA: And since when was it the DVLA's job to chase 'uninsured' vehicles??? Hmmm...
Phil303 said:
Luckily the person who bought it is a friend so between us we'll give the DVLA whatever evidence they want. He didn't buy the car to trade; he bought it for his wife to use but it's insured on his garage insurance. If the DVLA could be bothered to check they'd see when the policy on the car started. I told them as much in my reply.
Thanks to all for the advice so far.
There's a good chance that it's not really insured then. Trade policies are normally for vehicles being used in the course of that trade, not for SD&C of the spouse of the owner of that business, even if she's a director of that business. Thanks to all for the advice so far.
LoonR1 said:
There's a good chance that it's not really insured then. Trade policies are normally for vehicles being used in the course of that trade, not for SD&C of the spouse of the owner of that business, even if she's a director of that business.
It's insured under the business insurance but they aren't using it for SD&C just yet. They currently use a Golf for SD&C which they have on lease until the end of the year and when they give that back they'll start using the car I sold them. Until then, it sits in their driveway insured and possibly only used for the odd business errand.
Phil303 said:
It's insured under the business insurance but they aren't using it for SD&C just yet. They currently use a Golf for SD&C which they have on lease until the end of the year and when they give that back they'll start using the car I sold them.
Until then, it sits in their driveway insured and possibly only used for the odd business errand.
No skin off my nose, I just thought it'd be ironic that's all. Until then, it sits in their driveway insured and possibly only used for the odd business errand.
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