Accident management company/hire car
Discussion
Hopefully a quick question.
On Christmas Day my wife's Audi A4 (58 plate) was reversed into by one of the in-law's neighbours. He knocked, apologised and we exchanged details including him giving me a photocopy of his insurance certificate.
The next day I called the number at the top (Surety Insurance) and the claim was in progress. They said a company called Kindertons would be in touch about picking our car up and giving us a courtesy car. I spoke to Kindertons who stated that we would ordinarily get a "like for like" vehicle but as ours is 8 years old it would be downgraded to a "normal car". I said fine, as long as it's a 4 door (pregnant wife and 3 year old to get in/out of car seat). All good.
Last friday (6th Jan) a guy from Kindertons dropped off a brand new Mercedes B180. A bit nice I thought, but presumabky due to availability etc. The Hire Agreement states the hire rate is £116 per day which again doesn't seem extortionate to me. Just after a guy from the garage looking to repair our car arrived and took our Audi away.
An hour later I took a call from Covea insurance calling to say their client had accepted full responsibility and what could they do to assist in getting our car repaired, a replacement vehicle etc! This was my first contact with Covea who it turns out is the underwriter for the 3rd parties insurance.
Covea have worried me a little because they've said they could offer us a like for like replacement vehicle for £45 per day, and would dispute any "unreasonable" costs. Her example on the phone was "if your hire car is ten times that, we wouldn't pay and Kindertons would chase you for the payment".
I don't yet know how long our car will be in the garage for but am concerned that we could end up with a bill for a hire car of a higher cost than what was asked for or required. With a pregnant (with complications) wife and a bereavement in the close family a few days ago this is hassle I could do without.
Any thoughts on whether I should be attempting to reject this car, or is £116 a day a reasonable cost for the underwriters to pay out on? If I had phoned Covea instead of Surety this might not have happened but how am I meant to know who to call when the only name/number I am given is of a broker rather than the underwriter?
Thanks in advance
On Christmas Day my wife's Audi A4 (58 plate) was reversed into by one of the in-law's neighbours. He knocked, apologised and we exchanged details including him giving me a photocopy of his insurance certificate.
The next day I called the number at the top (Surety Insurance) and the claim was in progress. They said a company called Kindertons would be in touch about picking our car up and giving us a courtesy car. I spoke to Kindertons who stated that we would ordinarily get a "like for like" vehicle but as ours is 8 years old it would be downgraded to a "normal car". I said fine, as long as it's a 4 door (pregnant wife and 3 year old to get in/out of car seat). All good.
Last friday (6th Jan) a guy from Kindertons dropped off a brand new Mercedes B180. A bit nice I thought, but presumabky due to availability etc. The Hire Agreement states the hire rate is £116 per day which again doesn't seem extortionate to me. Just after a guy from the garage looking to repair our car arrived and took our Audi away.
An hour later I took a call from Covea insurance calling to say their client had accepted full responsibility and what could they do to assist in getting our car repaired, a replacement vehicle etc! This was my first contact with Covea who it turns out is the underwriter for the 3rd parties insurance.
Covea have worried me a little because they've said they could offer us a like for like replacement vehicle for £45 per day, and would dispute any "unreasonable" costs. Her example on the phone was "if your hire car is ten times that, we wouldn't pay and Kindertons would chase you for the payment".
I don't yet know how long our car will be in the garage for but am concerned that we could end up with a bill for a hire car of a higher cost than what was asked for or required. With a pregnant (with complications) wife and a bereavement in the close family a few days ago this is hassle I could do without.
Any thoughts on whether I should be attempting to reject this car, or is £116 a day a reasonable cost for the underwriters to pay out on? If I had phoned Covea instead of Surety this might not have happened but how am I meant to know who to call when the only name/number I am given is of a broker rather than the underwriter?
Thanks in advance
wiggy001 said:
Any thoughts on whether I should be attempting to reject this car, or is £116 a day a reasonable cost for the underwriters to pay out on? If I had phoned Covea instead of Surety this might not have happened but how am I meant to know who to call when the only name/number I am given is of a broker rather than the underwriter?
Thanks in advance
£45 per day seems more reasonable than £116.Thanks in advance
Do you fancy paying back the difference to Kindertons? Seems like a no brainer to me.
saaby93 said:
What have you signed agreed with whom?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I've signed a Hire Agreement and a GTA Mitigation of Truth with Kindertons.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Everything I've just read online says that a like for like replacement vehicle is ok, it's only when you ding a Micra and get a big Merc as a replacement that you are in trouble?
And apologies but that link doesn't appear to be able accident management companies having skimmed through it?
wiggy001 said:
I've signed a Hire Agreement and a GTA Mitigation of Truth with Kindertons.
Everything I've just read online says that a like for like replacement vehicle is ok, it's only when you ding a Micra and get a big Merc as a replacement that you are in trouble?
And apologies but that link doesn't appear to be able accident management companies having skimmed through it?
There may have been a very helpful accident management co helping in the backgroundEverything I've just read online says that a like for like replacement vehicle is ok, it's only when you ding a Micra and get a big Merc as a replacement that you are in trouble?
And apologies but that link doesn't appear to be able accident management companies having skimmed through it?
Theyre not all the same - a post on the last but one page links to
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=100...
You've signed up now and Kindertons will be handling everything for you including claiming for the car unless there's something in the agreements
What have you done with your own insurer?
saaby93 said:
There may have been a very helpful accident management co helping in the background
Theyre not all the same - a post on the last but one page links to
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=100...
You've signed up now and Kindertons will be handling everything for you including claiming for the car unless there's something in the agreements
What have you done with your own insurer?
That poll gives Kindertons 2% of the vote. And one of those votes is mine so I could see the results...Theyre not all the same - a post on the last but one page links to
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=100...
You've signed up now and Kindertons will be handling everything for you including claiming for the car unless there's something in the agreements
What have you done with your own insurer?
I've not done anything with my own insurer. I (naively?) thought that going direct to the third party's insurers would mean less people involved and therefore a quicker resolution.
Fingers crossed the third party insurer doesn't quibble the hire car fee for a car which, in all definitions I can find, is a reasonable replacement whilst our audi is in the garage.
I don't expect there will be an issue, but you will have signed to say that you'll cover the difference if Kindertons can't recover it from Covea.
Kindertons have pitched to me in the past. I'm not really in the private motor market so it's not something that's of interest or use to me. They're basically a Hire Car company that cottoned onto Accident Management. Like Accident Exchange, the guys PH are, or certainly were, in bed with. There's a financial incentive to the broker referring it to Kindertons instead. Again, not something I'm into. And, as you can see from the costings, there's a financial benefit to Kindertons playing in this space rather than the conventional hire market. Just a shame these increased costs get passed onto the rest of us when motor premiums go up.
Ideally, Covea would have known about this sooner, got you into one of their approved repairers, and the repairer would have provided you with a courtesy car. Alas, that wasn't the case so Covea will have to take it on the chin. The French are all about surrendering anyway, right?! :-p
Kindertons have pitched to me in the past. I'm not really in the private motor market so it's not something that's of interest or use to me. They're basically a Hire Car company that cottoned onto Accident Management. Like Accident Exchange, the guys PH are, or certainly were, in bed with. There's a financial incentive to the broker referring it to Kindertons instead. Again, not something I'm into. And, as you can see from the costings, there's a financial benefit to Kindertons playing in this space rather than the conventional hire market. Just a shame these increased costs get passed onto the rest of us when motor premiums go up.
Ideally, Covea would have known about this sooner, got you into one of their approved repairers, and the repairer would have provided you with a courtesy car. Alas, that wasn't the case so Covea will have to take it on the chin. The French are all about surrendering anyway, right?! :-p
I really can't see how you can expect the insurer to pay £70 extra a day.
My local Hertz has a group D for £176 before any discount for a week, pick up tomorrow. (And I should be able to get 25% off that).
Do check your documentation - you may have insured against any unrecoverable sums, which means that, as long as you cooperate, you should not be liable and the hire company will be stuck accepting £45 (which is still more than twice I'd have to pay for an equivalent size Hertz car, after discount - and I'm not an insurer!)
Even £45 a day is more than generous, however, except at times of exceptional peak demand. Credit hire does serve a legitimate purpose, but a lot of the rates and marketing practices - basically, people who don't know what a good market rate is, being pressured into something that no rational, sophisticated consumer would ever go for, and not understanding their exposure - are not helpful and not reflective of a free market.
My local Hertz has a group D for £176 before any discount for a week, pick up tomorrow. (And I should be able to get 25% off that).
Do check your documentation - you may have insured against any unrecoverable sums, which means that, as long as you cooperate, you should not be liable and the hire company will be stuck accepting £45 (which is still more than twice I'd have to pay for an equivalent size Hertz car, after discount - and I'm not an insurer!)
Even £45 a day is more than generous, however, except at times of exceptional peak demand. Credit hire does serve a legitimate purpose, but a lot of the rates and marketing practices - basically, people who don't know what a good market rate is, being pressured into something that no rational, sophisticated consumer would ever go for, and not understanding their exposure - are not helpful and not reflective of a free market.
PistonBroker said:
Ideally, Covea would have known about this sooner, got you into one of their approved repairers, and the repairer would have provided you with a courtesy car. Alas, that wasn't the case so Covea will have to take it on the chin. The French are all about surrendering anyway, right?! :-p
This. Just wish people knew before going with accident management companies.
Thanks for all the responses. If I am stung for the extra and the small print says I need to pay it then I'll have to suck it up and put it down to experience.
I didn't actually know I was being referred to an accident management company. The 3rd party's insurer (or, as it turns out, their broker) took all the details and said someone would be in touch to arrange collection of our car for repair and a replacement vehicle. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I just assumed this was the garage.
Will see what happens.
I didn't actually know I was being referred to an accident management company. The 3rd party's insurer (or, as it turns out, their broker) took all the details and said someone would be in touch to arrange collection of our car for repair and a replacement vehicle. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I just assumed this was the garage.
Will see what happens.
wiggy001 said:
Thanks for all the responses. If I am stung for the extra and the small print says I need to pay it then I'll have to suck it up and put it down to experience.
Highly unlikely that you will have to, but if that is what it says - why on earth would you voluntarily keep paying £70 per day extra for a car when you can get one for about £25? Surely the answer is to send the Merc back and either take up the actual insurer's offer or just get AN other hire car for less?wiggy001 said:
Thanks for all the responses. If I am stung for the extra and the small print says I need to pay it then I'll have to suck it up and put it down to experience.
I didn't actually know I was being referred to an accident management company. The 3rd party's insurer (or, as it turns out, their broker) took all the details and said someone would be in touch to arrange collection of our car for repair and a replacement vehicle. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I just assumed this was the garage.
Will see what happens.
Have you agreed who will do the repairs? Is it the local dealer?I didn't actually know I was being referred to an accident management company. The 3rd party's insurer (or, as it turns out, their broker) took all the details and said someone would be in touch to arrange collection of our car for repair and a replacement vehicle. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I just assumed this was the garage.
Will see what happens.
I remember back in 2008 I was involved in a non-fault accident which resulted in my 10 year old, £900 Honda civic being written off.
I was only TPF&T at the time- Luckily the girl admitted full liability, and the next morning when I phoned her insurer's they had already received notification of the incident from her (admitting liability).
My own insurer wasn't interested and purely logged a note regarding the incident. I dealt directly with her insurance claims team, who were fantastic.
I was due to receive a golf sized courtesy car, but the hire company phoned me on the day to ask if I was able to drive an automatic- as an "auto" was all they could dispatch that morning. Later a brand spanking new Alfa 159 saloon, 2.4 JTD, black on black leather arrived at work. I had that beauty for over three weeks, literally hurt to see it go.
Silver lining was that they settled £1850 for my Civic!
I was only TPF&T at the time- Luckily the girl admitted full liability, and the next morning when I phoned her insurer's they had already received notification of the incident from her (admitting liability).
My own insurer wasn't interested and purely logged a note regarding the incident. I dealt directly with her insurance claims team, who were fantastic.
I was due to receive a golf sized courtesy car, but the hire company phoned me on the day to ask if I was able to drive an automatic- as an "auto" was all they could dispatch that morning. Later a brand spanking new Alfa 159 saloon, 2.4 JTD, black on black leather arrived at work. I had that beauty for over three weeks, literally hurt to see it go.
Silver lining was that they settled £1850 for my Civic!
Edited by NK85 on Tuesday 10th January 15:38
I used an AMC 6 years ago and agreed to take the hire car (delivered on the day of the accident) until an offer was made on my own vehicle. After a few days my insurance company contacted me to say that they would arrange the hire car and wouldn't be paying for one hired from elsewhere.
I went back to the AMC and was advised that if I didn't take all their services then they would stop managing the claim and I would have to pay myself for the days the car was on hire and also for their solicitors' booking fee plus time already taken up preparing my case, total around £2.5k!!
In the end I hadda stay with the accident management company and just hope it all panned out (car hire had gone over £3.5k alone by 30 days) it was a very tense year or so, wondering if I was running up a huge bill, but it was all settled ok thankfully.
I went back to the AMC and was advised that if I didn't take all their services then they would stop managing the claim and I would have to pay myself for the days the car was on hire and also for their solicitors' booking fee plus time already taken up preparing my case, total around £2.5k!!
In the end I hadda stay with the accident management company and just hope it all panned out (car hire had gone over £3.5k alone by 30 days) it was a very tense year or so, wondering if I was running up a huge bill, but it was all settled ok thankfully.
I'm tarring all with the same brush here, but in general, an accident management company will deliver you a car as soon as they possibly can and regardless of whether your own car is driveable or not. They will then park up your car at the bodyshop and start billing the other insurer from the second they delivered your car.
The problem with this is that your car isn't booked in, estimated, and parts haven't been ordered. Your car is also driveable, so there is no mitigating reason to supply you with a car.. They just do it so they can start billing for your hire car. They used to be able to get away with this because they can justifiably say that the third party insurer hasn't arranged or been in contact with you yet. It's misleading because how is your average punter to know who is supposed to arrange what?
£116 a day is suggesting that you need a premium vehicle of some sort, which they will have to justify. See max rates here: http://apps.abi.org.uk/tphire/Documents/GTA%20Car%...
I'm not a fan of them at all. They used to have their place in the market, but i'd say that was rarely the case these days. Insurance companies are wise to it, and have lots of reciprocal agreements now, quite often these have been brought about by car rental companies. Enterprise is a real force in this market.
The problem with this is that your car isn't booked in, estimated, and parts haven't been ordered. Your car is also driveable, so there is no mitigating reason to supply you with a car.. They just do it so they can start billing for your hire car. They used to be able to get away with this because they can justifiably say that the third party insurer hasn't arranged or been in contact with you yet. It's misleading because how is your average punter to know who is supposed to arrange what?
£116 a day is suggesting that you need a premium vehicle of some sort, which they will have to justify. See max rates here: http://apps.abi.org.uk/tphire/Documents/GTA%20Car%...
I'm not a fan of them at all. They used to have their place in the market, but i'd say that was rarely the case these days. Insurance companies are wise to it, and have lots of reciprocal agreements now, quite often these have been brought about by car rental companies. Enterprise is a real force in this market.
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