Notchy in 2nd/4th
Discussion
My 400 seems to have devolved a little something with the gearbox.
Up until a few days ago, it was perfect. Last run out (and the same today), the box is fine when cold and as it warms up, 2nd becomes a bit notchy when selecting (going down, going up is fine). Then when the car is right up to temp, 4th gear joins the party, and is notchy when going up and down into 4th. When you are actually in the gears, all is well, and all the other gears are good too.
The car's done 92k and the clutch was replaced about 4,000 miles ago (by a previous owner).
Please tell me is it something easy and not a major problem
Up until a few days ago, it was perfect. Last run out (and the same today), the box is fine when cold and as it warms up, 2nd becomes a bit notchy when selecting (going down, going up is fine). Then when the car is right up to temp, 4th gear joins the party, and is notchy when going up and down into 4th. When you are actually in the gears, all is well, and all the other gears are good too.
The car's done 92k and the clutch was replaced about 4,000 miles ago (by a previous owner).
Please tell me is it something easy and not a major problem
honestjohntoo said:
As Originator and major proponent of the Mobil 1 and Molyslip process, I advise anyone to thoroughly clean out the horrible sludge that is left inside the gearbox AFTER draining the existing oil.
No point in adding fresh oil only to have it immediately contaminated by resident left-overs.
Black oil sludge is a virtual solid commonly caused by infrequent oil changes, running on low oil level and low operating temperatures, testimony to poor maintenance and short journeys and under these conditions, racks up with use.
Thus, it will surely contaminate any fresh oil and will likely ruin expectations brought about by just adding the Mobil 1/Molyslip combo. This is my solution.
Radical LT77 Gearbox Cleaning Process.
• With the car on axle stands and the back wheels off the ground drain the gearbox and re-fill with a flushing mixture of 2:1 white spirit and ATF.
• With the engine running at idle speed only, put the car through all the gears and let the drive train run off-load for 5 to 10 minutes.
• Upon draining the flushing mixture be amazed at the filthy colour and state of the drained fluid. Black as ebony with lots of sediment!
• Repeat the above with a clean batch of mixture to flush out the residues.
• Imagine the washing machine action inside the box allowing the solvent component to reach into every recess.
• Refill with "0W40 "Mobil 1 ("5W40 Castrol RS" is virtually the same. Use either with no discernible difference).
• Add a recommended dose of Molyslip Gearbox Treatment, available in a tube/applicator, Halfords, Ebay, etc.
• Transformation is usually remarkable making the gearbox a pleasure to use.
• Top up annually and replace Oil and Molyslip every four years (Unlikely, but clean any accumulated sludge as described).
• NOT for LSD - Use leftover Molyslip treatment in the rear axle differential.
• Thoroughly warm the differential with (say) an electric fan heater, suck out all the old lubricant with a large medical syringe and flexible plastic tube. Refill with fresh hypoid oil (as specified) and the mentioned Molyslip treatment.
• The rear axle differential will be similarly transformed but with less treatment intervals required.
• Taking both treatments into account, the whole drive train should become silky smooth.
Refilling a Manual Gearbox
• When topping up or refilling a manual box, the oft recommended method using squeezy bottles and flexible pipes has the disadvantage of proving Newton's 2nd Law of gravity that states: "It's easier to oil an armpit than to fill a gearbox from below!"
• Neat method to refill or top up the gearbox, run a large bore plastic hose from the filler hole, up past the bell-housing and into the rear of the engine bay.
• Fit and secure a suitable funnel on top and pour in the replacement oil without difficulty.
• Do it slowly to prevent overflow.
Providing the LT77 gearbox is not actually damaged, or simply worn out, the above process is well worth a try before removing the box for repair/replacement.
So! Would it be the Fully Synthetic Castrol RS 5W40/Mobil 1 0W40 Lubricant or the Molyslip Gearbox Treatment that does the trick? Or will it be the combination of the two?
Personally I think it's the combination but every gearbox will be in a different state/condition, so predicting complete success is fraught with uncertainty.
However, there are many feedback testimonies from fellow LT77 users who took the courage to try my solution and came back smiling! You could be smiling too!!!!
The above is adapted from my web pages - www.vintagemodelairplane.com - For me, a very unfriendly Rover SD1 LT77 gearbox was completely transformed in 1996 and with regular oil changes as recommended, remains in very good condition, 18 years later. Likewise the rear axle differential. NOT for LSD.
Every interesting, thanks, but how does this differ for an LSD?No point in adding fresh oil only to have it immediately contaminated by resident left-overs.
Black oil sludge is a virtual solid commonly caused by infrequent oil changes, running on low oil level and low operating temperatures, testimony to poor maintenance and short journeys and under these conditions, racks up with use.
Thus, it will surely contaminate any fresh oil and will likely ruin expectations brought about by just adding the Mobil 1/Molyslip combo. This is my solution.
Radical LT77 Gearbox Cleaning Process.
• With the car on axle stands and the back wheels off the ground drain the gearbox and re-fill with a flushing mixture of 2:1 white spirit and ATF.
• With the engine running at idle speed only, put the car through all the gears and let the drive train run off-load for 5 to 10 minutes.
• Upon draining the flushing mixture be amazed at the filthy colour and state of the drained fluid. Black as ebony with lots of sediment!
• Repeat the above with a clean batch of mixture to flush out the residues.
• Imagine the washing machine action inside the box allowing the solvent component to reach into every recess.
• Refill with "0W40 "Mobil 1 ("5W40 Castrol RS" is virtually the same. Use either with no discernible difference).
• Add a recommended dose of Molyslip Gearbox Treatment, available in a tube/applicator, Halfords, Ebay, etc.
• Transformation is usually remarkable making the gearbox a pleasure to use.
• Top up annually and replace Oil and Molyslip every four years (Unlikely, but clean any accumulated sludge as described).
• NOT for LSD - Use leftover Molyslip treatment in the rear axle differential.
• Thoroughly warm the differential with (say) an electric fan heater, suck out all the old lubricant with a large medical syringe and flexible plastic tube. Refill with fresh hypoid oil (as specified) and the mentioned Molyslip treatment.
• The rear axle differential will be similarly transformed but with less treatment intervals required.
• Taking both treatments into account, the whole drive train should become silky smooth.
Refilling a Manual Gearbox
• When topping up or refilling a manual box, the oft recommended method using squeezy bottles and flexible pipes has the disadvantage of proving Newton's 2nd Law of gravity that states: "It's easier to oil an armpit than to fill a gearbox from below!"
• Neat method to refill or top up the gearbox, run a large bore plastic hose from the filler hole, up past the bell-housing and into the rear of the engine bay.
• Fit and secure a suitable funnel on top and pour in the replacement oil without difficulty.
• Do it slowly to prevent overflow.
Providing the LT77 gearbox is not actually damaged, or simply worn out, the above process is well worth a try before removing the box for repair/replacement.
So! Would it be the Fully Synthetic Castrol RS 5W40/Mobil 1 0W40 Lubricant or the Molyslip Gearbox Treatment that does the trick? Or will it be the combination of the two?
Personally I think it's the combination but every gearbox will be in a different state/condition, so predicting complete success is fraught with uncertainty.
However, there are many feedback testimonies from fellow LT77 users who took the courage to try my solution and came back smiling! You could be smiling too!!!!
The above is adapted from my web pages - www.vintagemodelairplane.com - For me, a very unfriendly Rover SD1 LT77 gearbox was completely transformed in 1996 and with regular oil changes as recommended, remains in very good condition, 18 years later. Likewise the rear axle differential. NOT for LSD.
Edited by honestjohntoo on Wednesday 13th August 03:05
Sorry for being dim, but there is more than one Mobil 1 listed. I assume it is "new life" 0W/40, £49.99 for 5L?
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...
adam quantrill said:
Well - it was worth a try... and it will be generally smoother from now on. Have you also checked the remote linkage thingy? (Pull up on the gearstick - does it move up and down?)
It does have movement up and down (inch or so). What does this mean?ElvisWedgely said:
Check that the reservoir is full and perhaps bleed the clutch hydraulics just to eliminate. From what you describe though, it sounds to me like the synchromesh is worn in second and fourth. Seems quite popular on these gearboxes when they age.
Tony. TCB.
So, worse case, what am I looking at here? Box out, recon box? How much is all that going to cost Tony. TCB.
(DIY is out, way beyond my minimal skills...)marcus1875 said:
Dont i have nice pins! It was a pleasure to help out Richard.
Thanks again Marcus 
To reiterate:
The box was fine, then on one trip (over a distance of maybe 15 miles and 20 minutes), 2nd and 4th had a "notch" going in to them. You can feel something meshing together as you change (down: up isn't a problem). No crunch, just a feeling of cogs coming together. Also, there is a feeling of the stick goes "beyond" where is should stop: go into 2nd (which is to the left and down) and you can pull the stick further down than where 2nd is. Does that make sense....?
jindle said:
definitely sounds like the bushes on the remote link housing. the notch, as you've described it, is the remote housing bouncing off the prop. there's a few threads on here with more details, just one thing to watch out for is that you'll probably need 6 bushes and not 4. i realised this when doing mine, which is now using 4 bushes and a few washers
Thanks!http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=5&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=854...
Are these what we are talking about?
Are these the ones?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-TR7-TR8-LT77-GEA...
I'll ask my local garage if they can do it. I assume it's not a difficult job if you have a lift?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-TR7-TR8-LT77-GEA...
I'll ask my local garage if they can do it. I assume it's not a difficult job if you have a lift?
adam quantrill said:
A couple of tie wraps from the remote to the upper chassis rail is a very quick and dirty fix that will
a) get you going quickly
b) confirm that this is the only problem
while you wait for the bushes to arrive.
Thanks.a) get you going quickly
b) confirm that this is the only problem
while you wait for the bushes to arrive.
Do I get underneath to do that, or can I lift the gater?
Do you have a link to the poly ones please? I can't find them.
I also found this:
http://www.v8register.net/FilesRV8WN/RV8NOTE381-13...
I also found this:
http://www.v8register.net/FilesRV8WN/RV8NOTE381-13...
So, I had a look underneath:
The lower bushes are knackered/missing, and the whole thing moves up and down and fouls on the prop. I now understand what everyone has been saying to me. Yah! Simple fix! (hopefully!)
The upper bushes look OK. Question: I know in an ideal world I would replace all of them, but could I get away with just replacing the lower ones? I can reach the lower one (can't shift the nuts yet, but have soaked them in WD40) but I cannot reach the higher ones.
The lower bushes are knackered/missing, and the whole thing moves up and down and fouls on the prop. I now understand what everyone has been saying to me. Yah! Simple fix! (hopefully!)
The upper bushes look OK. Question: I know in an ideal world I would replace all of them, but could I get away with just replacing the lower ones? I can reach the lower one (can't shift the nuts yet, but have soaked them in WD40) but I cannot reach the higher ones.
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