GT3 - buy a 997.2, or buy a 997.1 and save £20k?
Discussion
I'm new to 911s so hoping to pick your collective brains please.
I'm in two minds - it seems 997.2 GT3s are around £85k-£90k currently, and 997.1s are around £65k-£70k (I know, I should've bought one or other of them a year or two ago). £20k isn't a trivial sum, but if the Gen2 will hold its value better, maybe it's money well spent?
Aside from the obvious fact of being newer & probably with fewer miles on, what are the benefits of the 2 over the 1? People talk about an improvment in build quality, but 7.1s seem ok to me. 7.2s have LEDs & a better satnav & bluetooth etc, but anything else I should know? Mechanically, aesthetically, whatever?
I'm seeing 5 on Thursday, 3 Gen1s & 2 Gen2s - should be an interesting day!
Thanks in advance for your comments & advice.
I'm in two minds - it seems 997.2 GT3s are around £85k-£90k currently, and 997.1s are around £65k-£70k (I know, I should've bought one or other of them a year or two ago). £20k isn't a trivial sum, but if the Gen2 will hold its value better, maybe it's money well spent?
Aside from the obvious fact of being newer & probably with fewer miles on, what are the benefits of the 2 over the 1? People talk about an improvment in build quality, but 7.1s seem ok to me. 7.2s have LEDs & a better satnav & bluetooth etc, but anything else I should know? Mechanically, aesthetically, whatever?
I'm seeing 5 on Thursday, 3 Gen1s & 2 Gen2s - should be an interesting day!
Thanks in advance for your comments & advice.
Cheers mate, done a fair bit of homework (including reading some of your posts here) so I think I'm up to speed, but always welcome more info so yes please, I'd like to see the links if it's not too much bother! 4 of the 5 I'm seeing are at official dealers, the other's at Nick Whale Sportscars, so scans & warranties should be ok.
Hey, see you on the Petrolhead Nirvana Alpine South tour!
Hey, see you on the Petrolhead Nirvana Alpine South tour!
mm450exc said:
http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/10_press_kits/pd...
Brakes are crap for track. So that requires upgrade but that's about it. I did Alcon on all 4 corners.
Excellent, thanks - just what I've been looking for without success.Brakes are crap for track. So that requires upgrade but that's about it. I did Alcon on all 4 corners.
V8KSN said:
Are you coming too? Brilliant! Are you hoping to get the GT3 before you go? Would be great to see (and hear) another one on tour 
Links -
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=111...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
You may have read through those threads already but if not they should keep you busy
That's the plan - I've taken the M3 on loads of tours with PHN & it's been ace, but I figured it was time for a change.Links -
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=111...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
You may have read through those threads already but if not they should keep you busy
Those links are also excellent, thanks - I went back a few pages but obviously not far enough!
GreatPretender said:
I think it's all down to personal preference at the end of the day. Sure, the 3.8 is better on paper, but in the real world, I'm not sure there's a massive difference (bar the greater convenience and slight increase in power/torque).
<snip>
Investment wise, I'd hope that both are a safe bet. The Gen 2 will always command more, but not exponentially so, I shouldn't think. History will view the 997 GT3 as the last of its kind; not whether you get significant benefit from PCM4 relative to PCM3 etc. After all, you could take your £20k and invest it to far greater effect elsewhere in my humble opinion. The Gen 2 certainly isn't £20k more car than its forbear.
<snip>
Investment wise, I'd hope that both are a safe bet. The Gen 2 will always command more, but not exponentially so, I shouldn't think. History will view the 997 GT3 as the last of its kind; not whether you get significant benefit from PCM4 relative to PCM3 etc. After all, you could take your £20k and invest it to far greater effect elsewhere in my humble opinion. The Gen 2 certainly isn't £20k more car than its forbear.
Slickhillsy said:
997.1 is amazing... Good question, is the gen 2 worth 20K more than this leap!
"Four years in the evolution of the 911 didn’t used to be a very long time, but in the last decade or so the pace of development has been staggering. Want proof? Hop from a 2003-spec 996 GT3 to a 2007 997 GT3 and prepare to have your mind blown. Every dynamic element of the package is transformed – power, torque, agility, stability, body control, grip, braking performance… The new car moves the game on to such an extent it beggars belief. We’ve had the sweet, lithe feel of the original car, the more aggressive and focused second generation and now we get the two expertly mixed but with everything turned up to 12, maybe 15..."
The write up for the gen 2 car doesnt convey such a significant leap. I know we'd all like the latest / last version of the manual GT3 but does it justify £20k plus...? Not sure. I do personally prefer the cosmetic tweaks, rear spolier and alike...
From an investment point - yes. In 20 / 30 years it will be advertised as THE last of the manual great cars, and thats where I think you'll see the most back from your £20k investment not so much in the drive...
That's decided then, Gen 1 it is, it's awesome and the Gen 2 doesn't add £20k of value."Four years in the evolution of the 911 didn’t used to be a very long time, but in the last decade or so the pace of development has been staggering. Want proof? Hop from a 2003-spec 996 GT3 to a 2007 997 GT3 and prepare to have your mind blown. Every dynamic element of the package is transformed – power, torque, agility, stability, body control, grip, braking performance… The new car moves the game on to such an extent it beggars belief. We’ve had the sweet, lithe feel of the original car, the more aggressive and focused second generation and now we get the two expertly mixed but with everything turned up to 12, maybe 15..."
The write up for the gen 2 car doesnt convey such a significant leap. I know we'd all like the latest / last version of the manual GT3 but does it justify £20k plus...? Not sure. I do personally prefer the cosmetic tweaks, rear spolier and alike...
From an investment point - yes. In 20 / 30 years it will be advertised as THE last of the manual great cars, and thats where I think you'll see the most back from your £20k investment not so much in the drive...
Then I read:
Magic919 said:
Got to be worth getting the Gen2 for the rear bumper alone. Doesn't have the double chin effect of the earlier car.
hondansx said:
I used to love, love, LOVE the look of the Gen 1.
Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't want a Gen 1 any less! Some bloody clever designers they have there...
So yeah, i'd do what i could to stretch for the Gen 2!
So now I'm back to square 1!Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't want a Gen 1 any less! Some bloody clever designers they have there...
So yeah, i'd do what i could to stretch for the Gen 2!
Seriously, thanks everyone for the advice, all views welcome.
I guess I'll have to drive them both on Thursday (confession - I've driven a few boggo 911s & they aren't quick enough, but never driven a GT3. I'm hoping it'll do the trick) & report back.
Thanks everyone for some fascinating insights. I guess the answer was obvious from the start - only I can decide if the extra £20k is worth it to me. Without having driven either, I'm veering from one to the other with each new post on this thread, but I'm hoping a drive will make it all clear. Guess I'll find out in a couple of days!
DiscoColin said:
What are you going to use it for? The gen 2 is a better out of the box road car, but if you are buying for the track you only have to throw a few grand at a gen 1 to get it to a very similar place handling wise. The Gen 1 is cheaper and doesn't have the centre lock wheel overheads. The price spread doesn't currently show much sign of changing so unless you are planning to be buried in it, the more expensive car to buy will return much of the premium on resale if that is a factor.
There are other preference factors though. The folding bucket was not available on the gen1, but to me are miles more comfortable than the fixed back seats (comfort seats are missing the point in either). The low end torque and flatter power curve of the 3.8 over the 3.6 is also tangible. If you want sat nav at all then you want gen 2 as well - in a gen 1 you are better off with the basic stereo and a TomTom. Also - IIRC the TPMS system was optional (and often not selected) on the gen 1 and standard on the gen 2. It is well worth having IMHO. The counterweight is that the centre locks are just a pain.
Have you also ruled out the 997.1 RS? If one could be acquired for sensible money it would be worth looking at simply due to the greater potential for medium term value increase. Just a thought.
But if you just want a straight opinion - when in your position a bit under 3 years ago, I bought a gen 2.
I doubt I'll track it, it'll be too valuable/costly. I've got an Elise for that anyway. It'll be for touring with the Petrolhead Nirvana gang, and Sunday morning hoons, and looking at. Thanks for the straight answer at the end of your post!There are other preference factors though. The folding bucket was not available on the gen1, but to me are miles more comfortable than the fixed back seats (comfort seats are missing the point in either). The low end torque and flatter power curve of the 3.8 over the 3.6 is also tangible. If you want sat nav at all then you want gen 2 as well - in a gen 1 you are better off with the basic stereo and a TomTom. Also - IIRC the TPMS system was optional (and often not selected) on the gen 1 and standard on the gen 2. It is well worth having IMHO. The counterweight is that the centre locks are just a pain.
Have you also ruled out the 997.1 RS? If one could be acquired for sensible money it would be worth looking at simply due to the greater potential for medium term value increase. Just a thought.
But if you just want a straight opinion - when in your position a bit under 3 years ago, I bought a gen 2.
Well that was straightforward.
I drove a 7.1 club sport first thing, and (no offence to 7.1 owners here) I wasn't keen on the interior which seemed a bit of an old design, which I guess it is. The bucket seats didn't suit by bum either. So I cancelled the drives in the other two later in the day.
Then it was off to see a white 7.2 comfort, which was awesome & quite scary. I wasn't 100% on the white though, so carried on to see a black one, same spec but newer, with fewer miles & owners. It was the one I'd had my eye on from the start, but hoped I wouldn't like as it was naturally the most expensive. No ceramics, front lifter, chrono, nav, just what I was after.
They offered me low on my car, but full price on the GT3. Worth a try I s'pose. I made them a low counter-offer which I thought they'd say no to - and they did. I was secretly relieved as it's a shed load of cash, so I dug my heels in & said that was my best offer. The nice sales guy went off to see the sales manager, as they do, and came back with a deal £500 away. Close enough that I had to say yes really.
Picking it up Monday. Crap!
I drove a 7.1 club sport first thing, and (no offence to 7.1 owners here) I wasn't keen on the interior which seemed a bit of an old design, which I guess it is. The bucket seats didn't suit by bum either. So I cancelled the drives in the other two later in the day.
Then it was off to see a white 7.2 comfort, which was awesome & quite scary. I wasn't 100% on the white though, so carried on to see a black one, same spec but newer, with fewer miles & owners. It was the one I'd had my eye on from the start, but hoped I wouldn't like as it was naturally the most expensive. No ceramics, front lifter, chrono, nav, just what I was after.
They offered me low on my car, but full price on the GT3. Worth a try I s'pose. I made them a low counter-offer which I thought they'd say no to - and they did. I was secretly relieved as it's a shed load of cash, so I dug my heels in & said that was my best offer. The nice sales guy went off to see the sales manager, as they do, and came back with a deal £500 away. Close enough that I had to say yes really.
Picking it up Monday. Crap!
Slickhillsy said:
andywaterfall said:
Then it was off to see a white 7.2 comfort, which was awesome & quite scary.
Congrats sir, car looks great - the wait is the most painful part! #sleeplessnights One question... You mention the non bucket / comfort 7.2 was more scary than the (more hardcore) clubsport 7.1? Would have thought the rawness / observation would have been the other way round no??? Comfort spec (espec seats) generally take the edge off the ride...
I don't know if the particular 7.1 I drove was a bit tired or something, or maybe I was over-awed by the whole GT3-ness (as it was my first drive in one) and wasn't extending it properly to the top of the rev range, but it just wasn't as quick as I'd been expecting. Whereas the two 7.2s definitely were, and then some.
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