RE: LaFerrari vs McLaren P1 vs Veneno: Aero Battles

RE: LaFerrari vs McLaren P1 vs Veneno: Aero Battles

Monday 11th March 2013

LaFerrari vs McLaren P1 vs Veneno: Aero Battles

Hypercars? They're all about the aero, say representatives



One word linked the three hypercars launched at Geneva: 'functionality'. We heard it from the designer of the sci-fi villian that is the Lamborghini Veneno, the Ferrari LaFerrari product manager and a spokesman for McLaren about the P1.

They weren't talking about the amount of soft, Italian-leather bags you could squeeze into the boot. Rather, it was used to mean that all those swoops, wings, fins and splitters served a real purpose. Each car was claimed to be an aerodynamic masterpiece and as far as the bigwigs were concerned, this was where the bragging rights were coming from.

McLaren says its aero is more advanced
McLaren says its aero is more advanced
In fact, it was the first thing Ron Dennis told us when we collared him on the Ferrari stand as he got his first good look at The Ferrari. "It's obviously a very different approach to the one we've adopted, ours is more dedicated to aerodynamic performance," he said. "We are using the underbody to create downforce."

McLaren Automotive's acting boss Mike Flewitt said something similar. "Their approach looks to be far more conventional," he told us.

There's a host of active aerodynamics on both cars, including a wing on the McLaren that extends 30cm and an automatically rising spoiler on the Ferrari. McLaren also throws in RaceActive Chassis Control that lowers the car by 50mm in race-mode and creates the 'sucking' ground effect Dennis was talking about.

The McLaren will make 600kg of downforce, says the firm, whereas Ferrari wouldn't comment on LaFerrari's figure. What it did say was that aerodynamics were at the heart of the car, "We integrated design with the aerodynamics from the first days of the development," Andrea Bassi, product marketing manager told us. He did have a little pop at McLaren after we told him what Dennis had said. "We try to make aerodynamics with the shape of the car, not to have bigger wings and things like that."

Actually, it was probably more aimed at Lamborghini, whose £3.1 million Veneno really looked like it made the 500kg+ of downforce claimed by the company thanks to its outrageous fixed wing, Le Mans-inspired fin and again, underbody downforce.

Veneno wears its aero influence on its sleeve
Veneno wears its aero influence on its sleeve
Just as with Ferrari, the aero team was involved right from the off. "The whole car started with a long discussion with our aerodynamics guys and we began with the underfloor," Lamborghini's head designer Filippo Perini told us. The reason? "We want our customers to be fastest on the track." All three of them.

Chief braggart though was McLaren. "Our car, I am certain, will be faster round a track, without a doubt," Flewitt said, comparing the P1 with LaFerrari. And at the P1's launch at the show, Dennis said he reckoned the P1 would break the Nurburgring's production car lap record with a sub seven-minute time. He also said he'd personally broken the Top Gear track lap time by 10 seconds in the P1.

Flewitt summed it up. "We have far more active aerodynamics. I think we have a better breadth of powertrain and quite honestly I think we have a far more beautiful car."

Gloves are off, Ferrari. But will it accept McLaren's Nurburgring challenge and go for the lap record?

Author
Discussion

lgomgf

Original Poster:

237 posts

188 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
Top Gear track time, Nurburgring track time and so on.... how many of these will ever see a track

astra la vista

208 posts

134 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
unfortunately, it's going take some coin to get a P1 v LaF showdown. or someone like that car dealer in dubai at Al Ain Class Motors who let top gear use his AM 0ne-77 because AM wouldn't.

MyCC

337 posts

157 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
The scoop for any car site/mag will be the one who gets the first head to head to head test!! Will be amazing to see how this all turns out & who ends up with a bloody nose!

Regards,

MyCC.

BrettMRC

4,091 posts

160 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
The P1 and LAF are both nice.... but there's something alluring old school about the Lambo...

It looks the fastest biggrin

My money will be on the Macca though.

jon-

16,509 posts

216 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
Taken from another thread:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ron-dennis-on-t...

Apparently the P1 has been around the Top Gear track and is 10 seconds faster than a Hyuara on cut slicks.

If that's accurate it makes it insanely fast, and the biggest step forward in supercars we've had in a long time.

GroundEffect

13,836 posts

156 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
I love the whole talk of downforce figures when they don't state at what speed they are actually achieved at.

600kg of downforce at 350kph isn't all that impressive to be honest, with other cars (Pagani Cinque is above that I believe) matching or beating it
600kg of downforce at 160kph would be fantastic!


Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

265 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
"He also said he'd personally broken the Top Gear track lap time by 10 seconds in the P1."

How long until James May has a massive hissy fit about cars being ruined because they are developed to get a good time on the TG track?

Twincam16

27,646 posts

258 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
Funny, really, how those big American tailfins of the Fifties were designed by people who knew very little about aerodynamics, to look like features from rockets and jet-fighters, then explained away as 'aerodynamic devices' that supposedly kept the car tracking straight at high speed.

For years it was seen as marketing bks. Turned out to be true (sort-of).

Goron

8 posts

151 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
Am I reading the Top Gear story correctly as saying that Dennis is claiming a time 10 seconds under the "Star In A Reasonably Priced Car" record (i.e., about 1:32)? Presumably this is a typo..?

k-ink

9,070 posts

179 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
McLaren seem to be the thinking mans choice.

herebebeasties

668 posts

219 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
jon- said:
Taken from another thread:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ron-dennis-on-t...

Apparently the P1 has been around the Top Gear track and is 10 seconds faster than a Hyuara on cut slicks.

If that's accurate it makes it insanely fast, and the biggest step forward in supercars we've had in a long time.
Errr, what? That article says:

TopGear.com said:
And he went on to reveal that he himself had beaten the current Star In A Reasonably Priced Car record around Dunsfold in the P1 by 10 seconds. Finally, he claimed that nobody else would be able to get near the P1's performance.
So the P1 is 10 seconds faster than a Kia Cee'd. Awesome. biglaugh

Mark-C

5,090 posts

205 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
So it's all about the aero ... which is why (to me, at least) none of the cars is particularly good looking. I guess for a hypercar then that has to be the case but can someone build a supercar that's pretty?

Davey S2

13,096 posts

254 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
The Lambo looks like they let Homer Simpson loose with loads of MDF and a tube of No More Nails.

CSLmarson

209 posts

195 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
fezza looks like a space ship (not in a good way )
lambo is a total clown car !
macca looks fantastic but im sure it will be soleless.

wheres the old school fun

i miss the F40

GroundEffect

13,836 posts

156 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
Mark-C said:
So it's all about the aero ... which is why (to me, at least) none of the cars is particularly good looking. I guess for a hypercar then that has to be the case but can someone build a supercar that's pretty?
Then it wouldn't be quite so super...


Alfa159Ti

827 posts

157 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
All these cars look insane! It feels exciting to have a new hyper car rivalry bubbling away.

Each of these is both outrageous and a technical masterpiece in its own right and I love how each firm is going about it in their own distinctive way.

Hopefully posters of these will be coming to a schoolboys bedroom wall near you soon, ready to inspire and excite the next generation of PHers!

jon-

16,509 posts

216 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
herebebeasties said:
jon- said:
Taken from another thread:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ron-dennis-on-t...

Apparently the P1 has been around the Top Gear track and is 10 seconds faster than a Hyuara on cut slicks.

If that's accurate it makes it insanely fast, and the biggest step forward in supercars we've had in a long time.
Errr, what? That article says:

TopGear.com said:
And he went on to reveal that he himself had beaten the current Star In A Reasonably Priced Car record around Dunsfold in the P1 by 10 seconds. Finally, he claimed that nobody else would be able to get near the P1's performance.
So the P1 is 10 seconds faster than a Kia Cee'd. Awesome. biglaugh
Teach me to trust what I read on here wink

What a pointless stat!

Big Fat Fatty

3,303 posts

156 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
The Lambo does have the coolest set of wheels I've seen for a long time though, pig ugly as it is.

Leithen

10,891 posts

267 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
So, Dennis has laid his tadger on the table. It can be confirmed that all three cars constitute nothing more than a willy waving contest.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

George29

14,707 posts

164 months

Monday 11th March 2013
quotequote all
As much as I like the function > form attitude taken by these cars, I'd much prefer to see something geniunely pretty again. The P1 has grown on me slightly (I still prefer the simpler design of the 12C though). The Ferrari and Lamborghini look awful. It's like they've just put vents, angles and creases on for fun instead of nice flowing curves. I'd like to see a car designed by a person again rather than a computer.

I also have no doubt the McLaren will be the fastest!