'A penalty under the taxes acts'
Discussion
Hi,
I've received the above today.
I am PAYE, no other incomes. I don't need to do self assessment.
I received a tax bill out of the blue a couple of months ago for just over £3K. I couldn't understand this as I am PAYE. After spending an hour trying to get through to HMRC, it transpires my employer didn't inform HMRC of my change of address a few years ago.
HMRC have done a 'compliance check' on me (?!?) and decided the house I moved into three years ago, I actually didn't and have instead rented it out. They have thus charged me tax on a 'market rate' rent and have been sending demands to my old address.
Obviously, I didn't receive these.
I wasn't aware my employer hadn't updated my address as I get the payslips through an online portal and only look at the figures tab, not the personal details tab.
HMRC have basically told me its my fault for not telling them I'd moved house (I am legally liable to do so apparently), so they thought I owned a second property.
In my 30 years PAYE working I've never told HMRC of a change of address (of which there have been many, my employers have always done this) so, HMRC have written off the tax 'owed' (I provided them with my council tax bills as proof) but have said the 'fine' stands. How can I be fined for not paying something I never owed?
Do I need to instruct a solicitor or let them take me to Court and I'll defend myself?
Thanks
I've received the above today.
I am PAYE, no other incomes. I don't need to do self assessment.
I received a tax bill out of the blue a couple of months ago for just over £3K. I couldn't understand this as I am PAYE. After spending an hour trying to get through to HMRC, it transpires my employer didn't inform HMRC of my change of address a few years ago.
HMRC have done a 'compliance check' on me (?!?) and decided the house I moved into three years ago, I actually didn't and have instead rented it out. They have thus charged me tax on a 'market rate' rent and have been sending demands to my old address.
Obviously, I didn't receive these.
I wasn't aware my employer hadn't updated my address as I get the payslips through an online portal and only look at the figures tab, not the personal details tab.
HMRC have basically told me its my fault for not telling them I'd moved house (I am legally liable to do so apparently), so they thought I owned a second property.
In my 30 years PAYE working I've never told HMRC of a change of address (of which there have been many, my employers have always done this) so, HMRC have written off the tax 'owed' (I provided them with my council tax bills as proof) but have said the 'fine' stands. How can I be fined for not paying something I never owed?
Do I need to instruct a solicitor or let them take me to Court and I'll defend myself?
Thanks
Percy Cushion said:
I presume you told your employer about the change of address, in which case, aren’t they responsible for notifying HMRC?
Yes, I did but my Employer never told HMRC until this year (presumably the penny dropped during an audit or something) and I got the HMRC demand to my 'new' address. HMRC categorically state it is my legal responsibility even though it is also my employers!Vron said:
Hi,
I've received the above today.
I am PAYE, no other incomes. I don't need to do self assessment.
I received a tax bill out of the blue a couple of months ago for just over £3K. I couldn't understand this as I am PAYE. After spending an hour trying to get through to HMRC, it transpires my employer didn't inform HMRC of my change of address a few years ago.
HMRC have done a 'compliance check' on me (?!?) and decided the house I moved into three years ago, I actually didn't and have instead rented it out. They have thus charged me tax on a 'market rate' rent and have been sending demands to my old address.
Obviously, I didn't receive these.
I wasn't aware my employer hadn't updated my address as I get the payslips through an online portal and only look at the figures tab, not the personal details tab.
HMRC have basically told me its my fault for not telling them I'd moved house (I am legally liable to do so apparently), so they thought I owned a second property.
In my 30 years PAYE working I've never told HMRC of a change of address (of which there have been many, my employers have always done this) so, HMRC have written off the tax 'owed' (I provided them with my council tax bills as proof) but have said the 'fine' stands. How can I be fined for not paying something I never owed?
Do I need to instruct a solicitor or let them take me to Court and I'll defend myself?
Thanks
How much is the fine?I've received the above today.
I am PAYE, no other incomes. I don't need to do self assessment.
I received a tax bill out of the blue a couple of months ago for just over £3K. I couldn't understand this as I am PAYE. After spending an hour trying to get through to HMRC, it transpires my employer didn't inform HMRC of my change of address a few years ago.
HMRC have done a 'compliance check' on me (?!?) and decided the house I moved into three years ago, I actually didn't and have instead rented it out. They have thus charged me tax on a 'market rate' rent and have been sending demands to my old address.
Obviously, I didn't receive these.
I wasn't aware my employer hadn't updated my address as I get the payslips through an online portal and only look at the figures tab, not the personal details tab.
HMRC have basically told me its my fault for not telling them I'd moved house (I am legally liable to do so apparently), so they thought I owned a second property.
In my 30 years PAYE working I've never told HMRC of a change of address (of which there have been many, my employers have always done this) so, HMRC have written off the tax 'owed' (I provided them with my council tax bills as proof) but have said the 'fine' stands. How can I be fined for not paying something I never owed?
Do I need to instruct a solicitor or let them take me to Court and I'll defend myself?
Thanks
agtlaw said:
Vron said:
Hi,
I've received the above today.
I am PAYE, no other incomes. I don't need to do self assessment.
I received a tax bill out of the blue a couple of months ago for just over £3K. I couldn't understand this as I am PAYE. After spending an hour trying to get through to HMRC, it transpires my employer didn't inform HMRC of my change of address a few years ago.
HMRC have done a 'compliance check' on me (?!?) and decided the house I moved into three years ago, I actually didn't and have instead rented it out. They have thus charged me tax on a 'market rate' rent and have been sending demands to my old address.
Obviously, I didn't receive these.
I wasn't aware my employer hadn't updated my address as I get the payslips through an online portal and only look at the figures tab, not the personal details tab.
HMRC have basically told me its my fault for not telling them I'd moved house (I am legally liable to do so apparently), so they thought I owned a second property.
In my 30 years PAYE working I've never told HMRC of a change of address (of which there have been many, my employers have always done this) so, HMRC have written off the tax 'owed' (I provided them with my council tax bills as proof) but have said the 'fine' stands. How can I be fined for not paying something I never owed?
Do I need to instruct a solicitor or let them take me to Court and I'll defend myself?
Thanks
How much is the fine?I've received the above today.
I am PAYE, no other incomes. I don't need to do self assessment.
I received a tax bill out of the blue a couple of months ago for just over £3K. I couldn't understand this as I am PAYE. After spending an hour trying to get through to HMRC, it transpires my employer didn't inform HMRC of my change of address a few years ago.
HMRC have done a 'compliance check' on me (?!?) and decided the house I moved into three years ago, I actually didn't and have instead rented it out. They have thus charged me tax on a 'market rate' rent and have been sending demands to my old address.
Obviously, I didn't receive these.
I wasn't aware my employer hadn't updated my address as I get the payslips through an online portal and only look at the figures tab, not the personal details tab.
HMRC have basically told me its my fault for not telling them I'd moved house (I am legally liable to do so apparently), so they thought I owned a second property.
In my 30 years PAYE working I've never told HMRC of a change of address (of which there have been many, my employers have always done this) so, HMRC have written off the tax 'owed' (I provided them with my council tax bills as proof) but have said the 'fine' stands. How can I be fined for not paying something I never owed?
Do I need to instruct a solicitor or let them take me to Court and I'll defend myself?
Thanks
Vron said:
BTW the person on the phone at HMRC said 'as I was 50 it may not be easy for me to understand these things, but I was still liable'
At least we know what the C stands for nowI’d have thought you would want an accountant rather than a solicitor to pen an appropriate F off letter
Did they quote chapter & verse?
i.e.under what section / paragraph are they seeking money?
Also, are they just demanding tax, or tax + interest + penalty?
If they are just fishing, then the letter has got your attention!
But if they are seeking a penalty based on non-notification of change of address, it'd be of interest to know under what statute they are seeking the penalty. Then we can see if there's any merit in the demand. I've never heard of a "PAYE" employee being so penalized, but maybe they've snuck some extra powers into the taxes acts.
Any breakdown of how they've calculated the figure would help.
i.e.under what section / paragraph are they seeking money?
Also, are they just demanding tax, or tax + interest + penalty?
If they are just fishing, then the letter has got your attention!
But if they are seeking a penalty based on non-notification of change of address, it'd be of interest to know under what statute they are seeking the penalty. Then we can see if there's any merit in the demand. I've never heard of a "PAYE" employee being so penalized, but maybe they've snuck some extra powers into the taxes acts.
Any breakdown of how they've calculated the figure would help.
I've seen this kind of thing on the HMRC forum to do with people not sending self-assessment forms - they didn't know, because HMRC was sending them to their old address.
The gist of resposes is it's not a penalty for not notifying of COA, it's a penalty for not responding to requests to do self-assessment forms, and the penalties build up over a few years.
Sometimes the HMRC answer suggests if there was never any requirement to do self-assessment then the penalty should be cancelled.
If you get nowhere with HMRC, try your MP. Be quick though, they'll be off on their holidays soon.
The gist of resposes is it's not a penalty for not notifying of COA, it's a penalty for not responding to requests to do self-assessment forms, and the penalties build up over a few years.
Sometimes the HMRC answer suggests if there was never any requirement to do self-assessment then the penalty should be cancelled.
If you get nowhere with HMRC, try your MP. Be quick though, they'll be off on their holidays soon.
Smells fishy to me. I’ve seen some letters from ‘HMRC’ recently that weren’t.
Did you call a number on the letter or use other means to get in touch?
If the former, perhaps try a reputable contact, then seek advice.
I know of a bloke appealing penalties and tax for a number of years, via an accountant, and has had at least two years of tax/fines striken off already. So they’re not averse to changing position when there’s reasonable excuse to do so.
Did you call a number on the letter or use other means to get in touch?
If the former, perhaps try a reputable contact, then seek advice.
I know of a bloke appealing penalties and tax for a number of years, via an accountant, and has had at least two years of tax/fines striken off already. So they’re not averse to changing position when there’s reasonable excuse to do so.
Call again.
Whatever people may think of HMRC they are usually staffed by competent and knowledgable people.
As for the case to be referred to an inspector, or better still try and talk to one.
A fine for a non issue seems a bit daft. You never owes anything and paid your taxes. You were not liable to submit a return and did not.
As other above has said what specific legislation are they relying upon ?
Whatever people may think of HMRC they are usually staffed by competent and knowledgable people.
As for the case to be referred to an inspector, or better still try and talk to one.
A fine for a non issue seems a bit daft. You never owes anything and paid your taxes. You were not liable to submit a return and did not.
As other above has said what specific legislation are they relying upon ?
Keep all comms by post when it comes to fines/penalties with HMRC. Been there, done that. They have an uncanny habit of "not having any record" on their files when you mention previous phone comms with them. Postal comms means you get 6 month periods of nothingness as it takes them that long to respond. Meanwhile don't feel pressured to pay the fines which will keep increasing while you wait. They love to send out their scary penalty letters to show you much the fine is increasing for every day you don't pay 
. This is (imo) just a scaremongering tactic to get you to pay, then they can close the case without actually having to do any work and move onto the next one.
. This is (imo) just a scaremongering tactic to get you to pay, then they can close the case without actually having to do any work and move onto the next one.Vron said:
Hi,
I've received the above today.
I am PAYE, no other incomes. I don't need to do self assessment.
I received a tax bill out of the blue a couple of months ago for just over £3K. I couldn't understand this as I am PAYE. After spending an hour trying to get through to HMRC, it transpires my employer didn't inform HMRC of my change of address a few years ago.
HMRC have done a 'compliance check' on me (?!?) and decided the house I moved into three years ago, I actually didn't and have instead rented it out. They have thus charged me tax on a 'market rate' rent and have been sending demands to my old address.
Obviously, I didn't receive these.
I wasn't aware my employer hadn't updated my address as I get the payslips through an online portal and only look at the figures tab, not the personal details tab.
HMRC have basically told me its my fault for not telling them I'd moved house (I am legally liable to do so apparently), so they thought I owned a second property.
In my 30 years PAYE working I've never told HMRC of a change of address (of which there have been many, my employers have always done this) so, HMRC have written off the tax 'owed' (I provided them with my council tax bills as proof) but have said the 'fine' stands. How can I be fined for not paying something I never owed?
Do I need to instruct a solicitor or let them take me to Court and I'll defend myself?
Thanks
They appear to be cracking down on suspected BTL landlords who HMRC feel haven't declared 9and paid tax0 on their rental income. I know of at least 3 family members who have received speculative letters ("we believe you own a property which is rented out.....").I've received the above today.
I am PAYE, no other incomes. I don't need to do self assessment.
I received a tax bill out of the blue a couple of months ago for just over £3K. I couldn't understand this as I am PAYE. After spending an hour trying to get through to HMRC, it transpires my employer didn't inform HMRC of my change of address a few years ago.
HMRC have done a 'compliance check' on me (?!?) and decided the house I moved into three years ago, I actually didn't and have instead rented it out. They have thus charged me tax on a 'market rate' rent and have been sending demands to my old address.
Obviously, I didn't receive these.
I wasn't aware my employer hadn't updated my address as I get the payslips through an online portal and only look at the figures tab, not the personal details tab.
HMRC have basically told me its my fault for not telling them I'd moved house (I am legally liable to do so apparently), so they thought I owned a second property.
In my 30 years PAYE working I've never told HMRC of a change of address (of which there have been many, my employers have always done this) so, HMRC have written off the tax 'owed' (I provided them with my council tax bills as proof) but have said the 'fine' stands. How can I be fined for not paying something I never owed?
Do I need to instruct a solicitor or let them take me to Court and I'll defend myself?
Thanks
The penalty letter is beyond ridiculous. I think the problem is that the HMRC frontline staff operate very much on a "Computer says No" principle rather than applying common sense.
Tell them to take you to Court.
[quote=Vron]Hi,
I've received the above today.
I am PAYE, no other incomes. I don't need to do self assessment.
HMRC have done a 'compliance check' on me (?!?) and decided the house I moved into three years ago, I actually didn't and have instead rented it out
[/quote
Doesn't seem to make sense
So you havn't moved so no need to advise HMRC and you should have receive letters
Instead I have rented it out- so you have other income so need to do a self assessment and have underpaid tax.
Much as I hate to say it after my experiences with HMRC looks to me as if they are right BUT no other posters seem to have picked this up
Living in original house and getting rental income from other house- is this correct?
I've received the above today.
I am PAYE, no other incomes. I don't need to do self assessment.
HMRC have done a 'compliance check' on me (?!?) and decided the house I moved into three years ago, I actually didn't and have instead rented it out
[/quote
Doesn't seem to make sense
So you havn't moved so no need to advise HMRC and you should have receive letters
Instead I have rented it out- so you have other income so need to do a self assessment and have underpaid tax.
Much as I hate to say it after my experiences with HMRC looks to me as if they are right BUT no other posters seem to have picked this up
Living in original house and getting rental income from other house- is this correct?
twokcc]ron said:
Hi,
I've received the above today.
I am PAYE, no other incomes. I don't need to do self assessment.
HMRC have done a 'compliance check' on me (?!?) and decided the house I moved into three years ago, I actually didn't and have instead rented it out
[/quote
Doesn't seem to make sense
So you havn't moved so no need to advise HMRC and you should have receive letters
Instead I have rented it out- so you have other income so need to do a self assessment and have underpaid tax.
Much as I hate to say it after my experiences with HMRC looks to me as if they are right BUT no other posters seem to have picked this up
Living in original house and getting rental income from other house- is this correct?
I think you've misunderstood. HMRC "think" that OP has rented out his new house, OP hasnt rented it out, he's moved into it.I've received the above today.
I am PAYE, no other incomes. I don't need to do self assessment.
HMRC have done a 'compliance check' on me (?!?) and decided the house I moved into three years ago, I actually didn't and have instead rented it out
[/quote
Doesn't seem to make sense
So you havn't moved so no need to advise HMRC and you should have receive letters
Instead I have rented it out- so you have other income so need to do a self assessment and have underpaid tax.
Much as I hate to say it after my experiences with HMRC looks to me as if they are right BUT no other posters seem to have picked this up
Living in original house and getting rental income from other house- is this correct?
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