Do vendors or estate agents have to declare anything?

[Taz1111]

There's a house someone I know was looking at. https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/135415346#/...

They offered I believe £120k.

That was rejected, but the offer that was accepted, the house went back up again.

I roughly calculated that it's enough time (2-3 months) for survey to come back, and I was right.

I rang on the house today, it's £90k and going to auction.

They advised it needs 8 wall ties and a truss fitting, and mortgage providers won't give a mortgage on it until the work has been done and obviously signed off.

The vendor doesn't want to fork out the money and has been told it'll be October until he can get anyone in.

My question is, should this be declared on the listing? Should the house have gone back up on the market with this work required, only for another survey to come back highlighting it?

(to clarify, the house was up for sale twice, both times fell through on the survey, roughly 2-3 months apart each time it's come up)

Edited by Taz1111 on Friday 2nd June 22:55

[Sebring440]

Can you rewrite that, just so that we know what you're asking? I certainly cannot work out what you mean.

[Nickbrapp]

No, they don’t have to declare anything like that but it’s usual to see “ cash buyers only” which usually shows something is a miss.

It’s very much buyer beware, the exact reason a survey exists.

[Taz1111]

Sebring440 said:

Can you rewrite that, just so that we know what you're asking? I certainly cannot work out what you mean.

House comes up for sale every 2-3 months roughly, falling through on the survey each time. Why don't solicitors or vendors have to declare this stuff?

[Taz1111]

Nickbrapp said:

No, they don’t have to declare anything like that but it’s usual to see “ cash buyers only” which usually shows something is a miss.

It’s very much buyer beware, the exact reason a survey exists.

And can we reasonably assume that the vendor wouldn't have known it needed work, until that survey came back the first time they had it up for sale? Hence why an accepted buyer tried to get a mortgage on it and was subsequently rejected?

Just don't understand how they can relist, only for someone to go through the same thing again. Only on the 3rd attempt to sell has it gone to auction, (and it may have been up for sale before, I'm just told it's 2 times previous).

[Nickbrapp]

Taz1111 said:

And can we reasonably assume that the vendor wouldn't have known it needed work, until that survey came back the first time they had it up for sale? Hence why an accepted buyer tried to get a mortgage on it and was subsequently rejected?

Just don't understand how they can relist, only for someone to go through the same thing again. Only on the 3rd attempt to sell has it gone to auction, (and it may have been up for sale before, I'm just told it's 2 times previous).

For all you know the agent could tell them they should declare it but the seller may just say no, could be hoping someone doesn’t have a survey done or is a cash buyer and doesn’t notice, in the same way he may have, so he doesn’t have to take a reduced amount

[Taz1111]

Nickbrapp said:

For all you know the agent could tell them they should declare it but the seller may just say no, could be hoping someone doesn’t have a survey done or is a cash buyer and doesn’t notice, in the same way he may have, so he doesn’t have to take a reduced amount

That's interesting to know. The agent was very forthcoming with the information, so I suspect they are now declaring to prospective purchasers. I put in very loose interest just to get this, required no effort at all.

I think the house is worth the asking, but cash is obviously very different than a mortgage.

[TonyF1]

A seller would be very foolish to hide the issue as they need to declare material issues on the TA6. Given they can’t argue awareness of the issue they would be committing fraud.

[CLX]

Assuming this is England, any survey done is carried out on behalf of a prospective buyer. The vendor doesn't have any entitlement to see it.

[bladebloke]

TonyF1 said:

A seller would be very foolish to hide the issue as they need to declare material issues on the TA6. Given they can’t argue awareness of the issue they would be committing fraud.

This is absolute rubbish. There are no questions about physical state and condition on the property information form, and the notion that a seller would be guilty of fraud for not voluntarily informing a buyer of such issues is laughable. Where do you get this stuff from?!

[BertBert]

+1

[Rushjob]

bladebloke said:

TonyF1 said:

A seller would be very foolish to hide the issue as they need to declare material issues on the TA6. Given they can’t argue awareness of the issue they would be committing fraud.

This is absolute rubbish. There are no questions about physical state and condition on the property information form, and the notion that a seller would be guilty of fraud for not voluntarily informing a buyer of such issues is laughable. Where do you get this stuff from?!

The TA6 form requires sellers to give details about the property under different categories. Some of the categories included in the Property Information Form are:

Information on property boundaries, including boundary features
Shared areas with neighbours (both informal and formal agreements)
Changes made to the property, including extensions and other alterations. This includes planning permission details and building control completion certificates
Guarantees and warranties which affect the property
Disputes or complaints made by the seller towards neighbours, or from neighbours about the seller. This includes disputes with neighbours who are not adjacent to the property
Details of the occupiers of the property
Environmental matters
Building insurance details
Any known structural issues concerning the property
Proposals for nearby development and construction (if applicable)
Any known burglaries in the neighbourhood
Council tax
Connection to utilities and other services
Services, including electricity, central heating, drainage and sewage

[bladebloke]

Rushjob said:

The TA6 form requires sellers to give details about the property under different categories. Some of the categories included in the Property Information Form are:

Information on property boundaries, including boundary features
Shared areas with neighbours (both informal and formal agreements)
Changes made to the property, including extensions and other alterations. This includes planning permission details and building control completion certificates
Guarantees and warranties which affect the property
Disputes or complaints made by the seller towards neighbours, or from neighbours about the seller. This includes disputes with neighbours who are not adjacent to the property
Details of the occupiers of the property
Environmental matters
Building insurance details
Any known structural issues concerning the property
Proposals for nearby development and construction (if applicable)
Any known burglaries in the neighbourhood
Council tax
Connection to utilities and other services
Services, including electricity, central heating, drainage and sewage

The part in bold is, once again, complete rubbish. I look at property information forms every day. I can tell you that there is nothing whatsoever along the lines of the section in bold. The physical state and condition of a residential property is something for the buyer to ascertain from their inspection and survey.

And as a side note, the ‘Conveyancing Protocol’, which every law firm that is a member of the Law Society’s Conveyancing Quality Scheme (which you can read as practically every firm of solicitors that does resi conveyancing) has to follow, essentially prohibits raising any enquiries about physical state and condition. Because it’s something that the buyer must ascertain themselves.

The Commercial Property Standard Enquiries (CPSE) do have a question about structural issues, but CPSE and the transactions they’re used for are a very different thing from the TA6 used on a resi conveyance. And in any case, any properly advised seller of commercial property will decline to answer the question.

[bladebloke]

By the way, the part in bold wasn’t the only one that was complete rubbish. ‘Burglaries in the neighbourhood’, for example.

[BertBert]

Rushjob said:

The TA6 form requires sellers to give details about the property under different categories. Some of the categories included in the Property Information Form are:

Information on property boundaries, including boundary features
Shared areas with neighbours (both informal and formal agreements)
Changes made to the property, including extensions and other alterations. This includes planning permission details and building control completion certificates
Guarantees and warranties which affect the property
Disputes or complaints made by the seller towards neighbours, or from neighbours about the seller. This includes disputes with neighbours who are not adjacent to the property
Details of the occupiers of the property
Environmental matters
Building insurance details
Any known structural issues concerning the property
Proposals for nearby development and construction (if applicable)
Any known burglaries in the neighbourhood
Council tax
Connection to utilities and other services
Services, including electricity, central heating, drainage and sewage

What was your source for this? Even a quick Google debunks it.

[Rushjob]

BertBert said:

Rushjob said:

The TA6 form requires sellers to give details about the property under different categories. Some of the categories included in the Property Information Form are:

Information on property boundaries, including boundary features
Shared areas with neighbours (both informal and formal agreements)
Changes made to the property, including extensions and other alterations. This includes planning permission details and building control completion certificates
Guarantees and warranties which affect the property
Disputes or complaints made by the seller towards neighbours, or from neighbours about the seller. This includes disputes with neighbours who are not adjacent to the property
Details of the occupiers of the property
Environmental matters
Building insurance details
Any known structural issues concerning the property
Proposals for nearby development and construction (if applicable)
Any known burglaries in the neighbourhood
Council tax
Connection to utilities and other services
Services, including electricity, central heating, drainage and sewage

What was your source for this? Even a quick Google debunks it.

Yet a quick Google found THIS.....

[stemll]

Rushjob said:

Yet a quick Google found THIS.....

That is an estate agent. If you want to see a TA6, better to pick a conveyancer

https://open-law.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/...

[bladebloke]

Rushjob said:

et a quick Google found THIS.....

And yet the statement in the article that the TA6 covers structural issues and burglaries remains utter bks. The form does not cover either. This probably demonstrates who much weight should be given to the factual accuracy of the remainder of the article.

I didn’t read it all, but noted it essentially says that caveat emptor no longer applies, because sales of resi property fall under the regulations the article quotes. It is not correct to say that caveat emptor no longer applies - it remains the core principle in a transaction between private individuals.

They’re not completely without a point re the regulations they mention, and the requirements they introduce to disclose information which would materially affect a prospective purchaser’s decision to proceed. But in my view that is all based on a dubious and over-cautious interpretation of the application of the regulations (namely that, even though they only apply to persons acting in the course of business, one private individual selling a property to another falls within their scope, because certain persons who assist the seller along the way are doing so in the course of business – i.e. estate agents and conveyancers). Said dubious interpretation does include the Law Society’s, but as far as I know, it hasn’t been tested in court.

But of course, none of that changes the fact that TA6 does not mention anything about, or require any disclosure of structural issues.

[bladebloke]

Rushjob said:

et a quick Google found THIS.....

I’ve just read the whole article. I’ll just say take everything in there with a significant pinch of salt. Some of it’s right, but some is very wrong.

Big chuckle for me over the fact that they’ve referred to ‘caveat emperor’, though (twice, so it wasn’t just a typo!!). Didn’t spot that when I looked at it quickly earlier today.

[donkmeister]

Does seem odd they've not included the usual wording about the house being unlikely to get a mortgage against it due to structural issues.

But if the going rate for that house without problems in that area is £120k, and it's now at £90k, can't help wondering if the issue is baked in to the price? Seller clearly wants a quick sale, take the cash to move on to next project as it's empty, and they don't want the upheaval of lifting floors etc. Not sure I'd want a development that missed basic structural issues though... Bodges galore I suspect, hidden behind some fresh paint and deep carpet.