Legal ownership?
Discussion
Long story but I recently purchased an old abandoned car from a National Car park company. The car was not of any great value probably £5k in running working condition. I paid £2000 no keys no documents and as a none runner. I also contacted the DVLA and they said that it didn’t have a registered keeper. No tax or MOT no Sorn been in the car park untouched for 4 years plus.
Any way I buy it on invoice from the Car park they have apparently done all the notifications to the original registered keeper and informed the DVLA whom I was told passed title to them hence no registered keepers.
Now the original owner has been in contact and says the car is effectively stolen, they say they have a season ticket with the car park which is paid up until the end of this year.
Who has legal title to the car?
Now I agree with the previous registered keeper that if they have paid for the car parking space in full until the end of the year then surely the CP couldn’t and shouldn’t have disposed of it.
I’m not particularly bothered about the car and would quite happily return it as long as I got my money back including the £500 to have it recovered with no keys and brought to me.
Thoughts
Any way I buy it on invoice from the Car park they have apparently done all the notifications to the original registered keeper and informed the DVLA whom I was told passed title to them hence no registered keepers.
Now the original owner has been in contact and says the car is effectively stolen, they say they have a season ticket with the car park which is paid up until the end of this year.
Who has legal title to the car?
Now I agree with the previous registered keeper that if they have paid for the car parking space in full until the end of the year then surely the CP couldn’t and shouldn’t have disposed of it.
I’m not particularly bothered about the car and would quite happily return it as long as I got my money back including the £500 to have it recovered with no keys and brought to me.
Thoughts
just my thoughts
How can the DVLA say it has no reg keeper? seems strange
If the carpark has contacted the original keeper; isn't this the current keeper?
If the owner says they have season ticket then why didn't the carpark know this?
How has the original keeper got hold of you?
All seems a little too weird but iif true then the owner is the owner and you will need to chase your money back from the carpark
How can the DVLA say it has no reg keeper? seems strange
If the carpark has contacted the original keeper; isn't this the current keeper?
If the owner says they have season ticket then why didn't the carpark know this?
How has the original keeper got hold of you?
All seems a little too weird but iif true then the owner is the owner and you will need to chase your money back from the carpark
The previous owner's beef is with the car park, not with you.
The previous owner's beef depends on what the parking terms and conditions said. It seems unlikely the car park would have sold you the car unless they thought they were on firm ground under that contract.
Here, for instance, is one of the clauses from a well known national car parking company,
"Your Season Ticket will permit you to park one vehicle only in the Nominated Car Park at any one time. You must not, at any time, use the Nominated Car Park as a storage facility for your vehicle."
On the other hand, nobody can validly sell (pass you the legal title in) something they don't own or otherwise have the right to sell.
Leaving all of that aside, in the unlikely event you find yourself deprived of the car you will obviously have an easy claim against the car park for the price that you paid.
The previous owner's beef depends on what the parking terms and conditions said. It seems unlikely the car park would have sold you the car unless they thought they were on firm ground under that contract.
Here, for instance, is one of the clauses from a well known national car parking company,
"Your Season Ticket will permit you to park one vehicle only in the Nominated Car Park at any one time. You must not, at any time, use the Nominated Car Park as a storage facility for your vehicle."
On the other hand, nobody can validly sell (pass you the legal title in) something they don't own or otherwise have the right to sell.
Leaving all of that aside, in the unlikely event you find yourself deprived of the car you will obviously have an easy claim against the car park for the price that you paid.
M4cruiser said:
How do you know whether the person who contacted you is actually the previous owner, or even "a" previous owner?
Your question is a good one and I think we must assume they've contacted DVLA and said, "Oi, where's my car?". You can get registered keeper details from DVLA if you give a valid reason for needing them. Details on this link,https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla
TheDrownedApe said:
just my thoughts
How can the DVLA say it has no reg keeper? seems strange
If the carpark has contacted the original keeper; isn't this the current keeper?
If the owner says they have season ticket then why didn't the carpark know this?
How has the original keeper got hold of you?
All seems a little too weird but iif true then the owner is the owner and you will need to chase your money back from the carpark
The DVLA can remove a registered keeper if they believe they have abandoned or sold the car. Basically they write to them and if no reply is received within a specified time they are removed as the current keeper.How can the DVLA say it has no reg keeper? seems strange
If the carpark has contacted the original keeper; isn't this the current keeper?
If the owner says they have season ticket then why didn't the carpark know this?
How has the original keeper got hold of you?
All seems a little too weird but iif true then the owner is the owner and you will need to chase your money back from the carpark
Not sure who the car park contacted, if it was the owner or the person who rented the space, the owner is an older chap who is in care now, it’s a member of the family who is dealing with his affairs.
I sent a letter to an address I found in the glove box of the car with my contact details to try and find the history of the car. They were gobsmacked to find out the Car Park had disposed of it.
I agree with your last statement but I doubt they want the car back as the old chap is never going to do anything with it and it would cost way more than it’s worth to restore it to decent standard unless you do all the work yourself. Even then it’s probably not viable. I would be happy to let them have it back if they want it and get a refund from the CP if I lose the recovery money then so be it. But I think their main aim here is to get the funds I paid for the car back from the CP but I could be completely wrong.
I was just curious who now legally owns it as it’s very confusing point of law. There are a few exceptions where the title of goods does pass to the buyer even if the seller is not the owner. From what I have been told by the CP they state that at the time they sold it to me they were the legal owners and had been given authority from the DVLA to dispose of it. Not sure how that works!!
Like I say I really am not bothered either way I actually had a bit of buyer’s remorse when I got it back. I also don’t know if the person that I contacted was the owner or had paid CP fees. But I have a feeling they are legitimate.
Time will tel.
As I understand it, providing the car park owner has done their due diligence and indeed validated with DVLA that the registered keeper cannot be contacted, and that the car can reasonably be deemed abandoned, then if the original owner comes crawling out of the woodwork they are entitled to the money raised from the sale, minus reasonable storage and removal fees.
What they aren't entitled to do is to recover the car from the new owner.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/abandoned-vehicles-cou...
https://www.saga.co.uk/magazine/motoring/cars/usin...
What they aren't entitled to do is to recover the car from the new owner.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/abandoned-vehicles-cou...
https://www.saga.co.uk/magazine/motoring/cars/usin...
chris52 said:
it would cost way more than it’s worth to restore it to decent standard unless you do all the work yourself. Even then it’s probably not viable. I would be happy to let them have it back if they want it and get a refund from the CP if I lose the recovery money then so be it.
I'm curious, why did you buy it? 
chris52 said:
I sent a letter to an address I found in the glove box of the car with my contact details to try and find the history of the car.
TBH that was asking for trouble.It’s a bit odd that the car park company seems to think the DVLA gave them ownership though. Interesting question. Though apparently a similar thing can happen with houses - and it can’t be reversed.
Sheepshanks said:
TBH that was asking for trouble.
It’s a bit odd that the car park company seems to think the DVLA gave them ownership though. Interesting question. Though apparently a similar thing can happen with houses - and it can’t be reversed.
I don’t think that was asking for trouble really. Firstly it’s better to get any dispute resolved early, if I had spent many hours fixing up an old car and then lost it because of a dispute further down the line then that would have been extremely annoying. It’s a bit odd that the car park company seems to think the DVLA gave them ownership though. Interesting question. Though apparently a similar thing can happen with houses - and it can’t be reversed.
I presumed that the original owner had passed and the family had not wanted to be bothered about an old car that needed a load of work doing on it, and may be able to help with documents keys etc etc.
The car was left untouched for 4 years with about inch of dust on it flat tyres and an oil leak which left a large stain on the car park floor. All attempts to contact the owner had apparently been ignored so I think it was safe to conclude that they didn’t want it any more.
Will be interesting to see what happens. I know the family tried to contact the Car Park yesterday as I am in contact with them, but they were told they had to provide proof of the V5 before they would discuss anything.
Will keep this updated
Common sense says it's your car. Ideally the car park owner will give the original owner what you paid for it.
Maybe they'll make a drama out of it and point to a similar term someone else highlighted about not storing a car but to most companies £2K is neither here nor there and not worth spending time on.
Maybe they'll make a drama out of it and point to a similar term someone else highlighted about not storing a car but to most companies £2K is neither here nor there and not worth spending time on.
Matt_E_Mulsion said:
The bit I can't get my head round is was there really a season ticket for the car up until the end of the year? Especially after four years of it not moving. Plus if had a season ticket, why did the car park operator not realise this?
That does sound a lot like the car park company has messed upGassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff