Discussion
Hello
I’m in the process of writing my will, I have a question and any advice on how to word this to cover what i would like to occur, as there are health issues at play.
I have two adult children , my daughter who is married and my son who is not.
If I set out my estate to be divided between them in a certain percentage say 75/ 25%, what happens to one of the shares should one of them not be around to receive it?
In this situation I would want 100% of the estate to go to my
other child, and not the partner.
I’m in the process of writing my will, I have a question and any advice on how to word this to cover what i would like to occur, as there are health issues at play.
I have two adult children , my daughter who is married and my son who is not.
If I set out my estate to be divided between them in a certain percentage say 75/ 25%, what happens to one of the shares should one of them not be around to receive it?
In this situation I would want 100% of the estate to go to my
other child, and not the partner.
By default, what you want to happen will happen if one of them predeceases you. The gift to the deceased beneficiary will fail and their share is distributed with the rest of your estate to the surviving beneficiaries. If, however, they die after you but before they receive the inheritance, then the gift will become part of their own estate distributed according to their own wishes.
You can override that and say their share passes to their partner/children but that would have to be explicit and is not what you want.
You can override that and say their share passes to their partner/children but that would have to be explicit and is not what you want.
stemll said:
If you want it explicit then as Voldemort wrote but I'd change slightly to "predecease me or fails to survive me by 28 days".
So"in the event that either of my children predecease me or fails to survive me by 28 days ,I want the entirety of my estate to go to the surviving child. In the event they both predecease me I leave it to my great friend Voldemort cancer research"
I assume the “28 days” can be any number of days?
Again thanks for the help so far
It can be whatever length you want. I have seen it in my parents' wills and it is in mine and the intention in the case of partners/spouses, is that if both are involved in the same accident it saves having to go through the whole process twice if one survives but dies a week or so later from injuries.
Please don’t diy your will- pay a professional to get it right otherwise you risk leaving a world of pain and cost for your children.
I’ve just paid £600 for a will safe in the knowledge that there’s insurance to cover errors by the law firm when I’m not going to be around to sort them out.
I’ve just paid £600 for a will safe in the knowledge that there’s insurance to cover errors by the law firm when I’m not going to be around to sort them out.
stemll said:
By default, what you want to happen will happen if one of them predeceases you. The gift to the deceased beneficiary will fail and their share is distributed with the rest of your estate to the surviving beneficiaries.
Yes, this happened to my FIL - one of his sons sadly died before he did.His Will referred to his "issue" - and his solicitor said he didn't need to change it.
His deceased son was married and his widow (who we're all on very friendly terms with) wasn't exactly thrilled but there wasn't a huge amount of of money involved, she and her late husband didn't have any kids and she accepted that FIL had stated that he wanted the money to be passed to his grandchildren via his own children. She got a share of the house proceeds as her late husband owned a share of it.
ETA in view of Pro Bono's post: I have access to late FILs email account and I looked at the back and forth he had with his solicitor on this. FIL does say in his opening email that his deceased son didn't have any children so his solicitor (who we use too, and always uses the minimum number of words) may have thought it un-necessary to mention the point about children as it wasn't relevant.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Monday 24th July 14:55
stemll said:
By default, what you want to happen will happen if one of them predeceases you. The gift to the deceased beneficiary will fail and their share is distributed with the rest of your estate to the surviving beneficiaries.
Sorry, but this is completely wrong.Although it is generally the case that a gift to someone who dies before the testator `lapses' (i.e. it simply goes to the surviving beneficiaries) that is not the case where the gift is to a child.
Section 33 of the Wills Act 1837 says that in this situation the gift does not lapse, but instead passes to the deceased child's children (if any).
So in the OP's case, if either of his children died before him leaving children of their own those children would inherit the share that their parent would have received.
It's possible to override this provision, but you need to do so expressly in your Will.
This is yet another reason why it's better to pay to have your Will made professional than rely on advice, however well-meant, from a motoring website.
Pro Bono said:
Sorry, but this is completely wrong.
Although it is generally the case that a gift to someone who dies before the testator `lapses' (i.e. it simply goes to the surviving beneficiaries) that is not the case where the gift is to a child.
Section 33 of the Wills Act 1837 says that in this situation the gift does not lapse, but instead passes to the deceased child's children (if any).
So in the OP's case, if either of his children died before him leaving children of their own those children would inherit the share that their parent would have received.
It's possible to override this provision, but you need to do so expressly in your Will.
This is yet another reason why it's better to pay to have your Will made professional than rely on advice, however well-meant, from a motoring website.
HiAlthough it is generally the case that a gift to someone who dies before the testator `lapses' (i.e. it simply goes to the surviving beneficiaries) that is not the case where the gift is to a child.
Section 33 of the Wills Act 1837 says that in this situation the gift does not lapse, but instead passes to the deceased child's children (if any).
So in the OP's case, if either of his children died before him leaving children of their own those children would inherit the share that their parent would have received.
It's possible to override this provision, but you need to do so expressly in your Will.
This is yet another reason why it's better to pay to have your Will made professional than rely on advice, however well-meant, from a motoring website.
So would this wording override that clause?
in the event that either of my children predecease me or fails to survive me by 28 days ,I want the entirety of my estate to go to the surviving child. In the event they both predecease me I leave it to my great friend Voldemort cancer research"
As above take professional advice. The 28 day issue is in case you are both in a serious ie fatal accident but one survives a few days then succumbs and your estate then ends up as part of your relatives estate. By all means tell them what you want to happen in all circumstances then they can put it into legal jargon.
If you want to leave someone out of your will ask how this can be done so as not to be challenged ie maybe leave them a small amount and explain why it is not as large as others.
If you want to leave someone out of your will ask how this can be done so as not to be challenged ie maybe leave them a small amount and explain why it is not as large as others.
spikeyhead said:
If you have a decent attempt at writing your will it won't cost much to get a professional to finish it
Not as easy as it seems. I had a mirrored will written by solicitors 18 years ago that included trust terms for my son as he was a toddler. He's now an adult so the will is simplified. I re-wrote it using all the same terms as in the original but simplifying the elements associated with my son. Local lawyers won't touch it....stating that they won't accept a review but need to re-write it for the cost of ~£450....gave me some "blah" about liabilities etc etc.I think the truth of the matter is that there is no money in a review of a will, no matter how simple the will is.. There are specific services that do this....pointed out to me in another thread on the same matter (by Which magazine and others)....but my local solicitors and a firm in London didn't want to know. They all also tried to upsell in terms of other services (Power of Attorney, storage and holding the will etc)
I know you’ve stated you intentions & are pretty fixed on what you set out to do, but if you’ve a trusted friend who knows you & family (that you might be intending using as an executor) why not discuss with them & see what they think of your ideas? In my family we did have a situation where an aunt died within a week of her parent, everything she was allocated did go to her kids my cousins (not her husband) & to be honest I think it would’ve been pretty hard on them to to have not gotten anything. We’ve no idea of your situation/circumstances & many folks dislike their son/daughter in law but usually do like their grandkids?
One thing I’ll mention though if you’re not getting advice & doing it yourself - Pensions take a look if you have not already.
For many folks this is a significant part of what they leave behind especially if they die early. Distribution of pension funds is often at the discretion of the fund trustees & does not form part of your will, so important you have “expression of wish” forms up to date (trustees use this as a guide for distribution it is not absolute). I like you have imbalance in the way I would like things to be distributed at the moment & have those set to 80:20 (which addresses an imbalance the other way in my will for property/business interest etc)
One thing I’ll mention though if you’re not getting advice & doing it yourself - Pensions take a look if you have not already.
For many folks this is a significant part of what they leave behind especially if they die early. Distribution of pension funds is often at the discretion of the fund trustees & does not form part of your will, so important you have “expression of wish” forms up to date (trustees use this as a guide for distribution it is not absolute). I like you have imbalance in the way I would like things to be distributed at the moment & have those set to 80:20 (which addresses an imbalance the other way in my will for property/business interest etc)
Miserablegit said:
Please don’t diy your will- pay a professional to get it right otherwise you risk leaving a world of pain and cost for your children.
I’ve just paid £600 for a will safe in the knowledge that there’s insurance to cover errors by the law firm when I’m not going to be around to sort them out.
This.I’ve just paid £600 for a will safe in the knowledge that there’s insurance to cover errors by the law firm when I’m not going to be around to sort them out.
Obviously any will is better than none, but it needs a professional to get it right. As an example our solicitor asked what did we want to do if all of us died (say a car or plane crash). That was something I hadn't considered before.
Steve Campbell said:
Not as easy as it seems. I had a mirrored will written by solicitors 18 years ago that included trust terms for my son as he was a toddler. He's now an adult so the will is simplified. I re-wrote it using all the same terms as in the original but simplifying the elements associated with my son. Local lawyers won't touch it....stating that they won't accept a review but need to re-write it for the cost of ~£450....gave me some "blah" about liabilities etc etc.
I think the truth of the matter is that there is no money in a review of a will, no matter how simple the will is.. There are specific services that do this....pointed out to me in another thread on the same matter (by Which magazine and others)....but my local solicitors and a firm in London didn't want to know. They all also tried to upsell in terms of other services (Power of Attorney, storage and holding the will etc)
The simple fact is as soon as a professional gets involved they are providing you with an insurance policy if anything goes wrong. There’s no reason for them to incur potentially massive liability for a mere £100 fee. They’ll need to spend time reviewing the document regardless of how good a DIYer thinks it is. KYC/money laundering checks take time and all that has to be paid for. The admin alone for taking on a new client will account for a good portion of the cost at the lower level.I think the truth of the matter is that there is no money in a review of a will, no matter how simple the will is.. There are specific services that do this....pointed out to me in another thread on the same matter (by Which magazine and others)....but my local solicitors and a firm in London didn't want to know. They all also tried to upsell in terms of other services (Power of Attorney, storage and holding the will etc)
We recently did our wills due to us getting married after a whopping 28 year engagement.
Left it as split equally between Mrs Ds’s three sisters and my two sisters plus &20k for our cats to be taken care of in the event of us both dying.
I suspect that we will be altering this - I have a strong suspicion that my parents are going to leave everything to my ineffectual youngest sister who is treated with massive favouritism. Im the only one of the three who has achieved anything or even had a proper job etc but my dad has never shown the slightest pride or complimented me on it.
If my parents do this and my sister(s) trouser the lot then my sister(s) get cut from my will totally - they’ll lose a lot more than they’ll have gained from my parents. My revenge from beyond the grave.
Families, eh?
Left it as split equally between Mrs Ds’s three sisters and my two sisters plus &20k for our cats to be taken care of in the event of us both dying.
I suspect that we will be altering this - I have a strong suspicion that my parents are going to leave everything to my ineffectual youngest sister who is treated with massive favouritism. Im the only one of the three who has achieved anything or even had a proper job etc but my dad has never shown the slightest pride or complimented me on it.
If my parents do this and my sister(s) trouser the lot then my sister(s) get cut from my will totally - they’ll lose a lot more than they’ll have gained from my parents. My revenge from beyond the grave.
Families, eh?
Dog Star said:
Left it as split equally between Mrs Ds’s three sisters and my two sisters plus &20k for our cats to be taken care of in the event of us both dying.
Just out of interest let's assume that, after a vigorous afternoon with Gemma Collins and Diane Abbott, you shuffle off this mortal coil. What's to stop Mrs D altering the will to leave it all to HER 3 sisters?Dog Star said:
Families, eh?
Indeed 
Countdown said:
Dog Star said:
Left it as split equally between Mrs Ds’s three sisters and my two sisters plus &20k for our cats to be taken care of in the event of us both dying.
Just out of interest let's assume that, after a vigorous afternoon with Gemma Collins and Diane Abbott, you shuffle off this mortal coil. What's to stop Mrs D altering the will to leave it all to HER 3 sisters?Absolutely nothing - not sure why she would. It’s my family who are the odd ones.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff