German legal advice?
Discussion
Hi all.
I’m being chased by a German company for non attendance at an event (long story but I had a car accident and couldn’t get there, but didn’t let them know in advance only a few hours afterwards).
Anyway. They’ve invoiced me the full amount €750.
I haven’t signed a contract or done anything other than arrange it by an email where they asked me for my name, address, age and mobile number. They have no credit card details or anything other than that information on that email.
I know it’s a long shot, but does anyone know if I will be forced to pay this if I refuse? I mean other than suing me in a German court what other action can they take?
Thanks all for any advice
I’m being chased by a German company for non attendance at an event (long story but I had a car accident and couldn’t get there, but didn’t let them know in advance only a few hours afterwards).
Anyway. They’ve invoiced me the full amount €750.
I haven’t signed a contract or done anything other than arrange it by an email where they asked me for my name, address, age and mobile number. They have no credit card details or anything other than that information on that email.
I know it’s a long shot, but does anyone know if I will be forced to pay this if I refuse? I mean other than suing me in a German court what other action can they take?
Thanks all for any advice
Will you ever need/want to deal with this organisation again? How likely are you to go to Germany again (I have no idea if they would try to enforce an outstanding debt if you flew in for example?)
On a purely pragmatic basis, how much legal support would you need and how much would you expect to get for 750 euros? I suspect trying to reach a goodwill compromise would be the best solution for both parties unless you are willing to just cease communication with them and risk whatever the outcome of that would be.
On a purely pragmatic basis, how much legal support would you need and how much would you expect to get for 750 euros? I suspect trying to reach a goodwill compromise would be the best solution for both parties unless you are willing to just cease communication with them and risk whatever the outcome of that would be.
A binding contract doesn't need T's and C's. It can even be made orally, although you usually need something in writing to "prove" what was agreed.
Yes, a simple email can evidence/constitute a binding contract if there has been offer and acceptance.
It's entirely possible the business may be able to pursue their claim against you in UK or, if they get a judgment in Germany, enforce that judgment in UK.
At the end of the day it's likely to depend on how annoyed with you they are. You might consider it worth offering them some ££ "in full and final settlement" to go away. Depends on the subject matter and all the circumstances.
Yes, a simple email can evidence/constitute a binding contract if there has been offer and acceptance.
It's entirely possible the business may be able to pursue their claim against you in UK or, if they get a judgment in Germany, enforce that judgment in UK.
At the end of the day it's likely to depend on how annoyed with you they are. You might consider it worth offering them some ££ "in full and final settlement" to go away. Depends on the subject matter and all the circumstances.
Panamax said:
A binding contract doesn't need T's and C's. It can even be made orally, although you usually need something in writing to "prove" what was agreed.
Yes, a simple email can evidence/constitute a binding contract if there has been offer and acceptance.
Are you certain that’s all Correct in German law?Yes, a simple email can evidence/constitute a binding contract if there has been offer and acceptance.
I’m amazed at the people here advising the op to pay them off. I’d do absolutely nothing at all, it’s very difficult and expensive for them to pursue any claim against the op.
Edited by bad company on Thursday 24th August 23:41
+2 In my experience Germans are very pedantic about getting signatures on contracts.
Unless you signed up to Ts and Cs, a simple confirmation you would attend IMHO does not constitute a contract that you agreed to pay whether you attended or not. Any contract needs cancellation and termination clauses otherwise it would be just as legitimate to imagine that the terms were "if you cancel or don't turn up you pay nothing" as "if you cancel and don't turn up you pay the full amount" - who is to say which term applies if there was no agreement?
Unless you signed up to Ts and Cs, a simple confirmation you would attend IMHO does not constitute a contract that you agreed to pay whether you attended or not. Any contract needs cancellation and termination clauses otherwise it would be just as legitimate to imagine that the terms were "if you cancel or don't turn up you pay nothing" as "if you cancel and don't turn up you pay the full amount" - who is to say which term applies if there was no agreement?
mr rusty said:
+2 In my experience Germans are very pedantic about getting signatures on contracts.
Unless you signed up to Ts and Cs, a simple confirmation you would attend IMHO does not constitute a contract that you agreed to pay whether you attended or not. Any contract needs cancellation and termination clauses otherwise it would be just as legitimate to imagine that the terms were "if you cancel or don't turn up you pay nothing" as "if you cancel and don't turn up you pay the full amount" - who is to say which term applies if there was no agreement?
Of course, it might be governed by statute, not a commercial contract. If the OP caused the company loss through his actions maybe he'd be liable in German law? A bit of a flight on fancy, but who knows? I'd just sit tight though as I said before.Unless you signed up to Ts and Cs, a simple confirmation you would attend IMHO does not constitute a contract that you agreed to pay whether you attended or not. Any contract needs cancellation and termination clauses otherwise it would be just as legitimate to imagine that the terms were "if you cancel or don't turn up you pay nothing" as "if you cancel and don't turn up you pay the full amount" - who is to say which term applies if there was no agreement?
bad company said:
Are you certain that’s all Correct in German law?
I’m amazed at the people here advising the op to pay them off. I’d do absolutely nothing at all, it’s very difficult and expensive for them to pursue any claim against the op.
I am sure Ebay and similar sites exist in Germany, there is lots of P2P trade without contracts and I don't recall signing a contract the last time I bought a coffee in Germany.I’m amazed at the people here advising the op to pay them off. I’d do absolutely nothing at all, it’s very difficult and expensive for them to pursue any claim against the op.
Edited by bad company on Thursday 24th August 23:41
I am sure the OP would have been upset had he turned up at the event and been turned away . . . . . . he would be here asking how he should chase his compo.
mr rusty said:
Any contract needs cancellation and termination clauses otherwise it would be just as legitimate to imagine that the terms were "if you cancel or don't turn up you pay nothing" as "if you cancel and don't turn up you pay the full amount"
No, it doesn't. Incorrect comments like that are no help to the OP.IJWS15 said:
bad company said:
Are you certain that’s all Correct in German law?
I’m amazed at the people here advising the op to pay them off. I’d do absolutely nothing at all, it’s very difficult and expensive for them to pursue any claim against the op.
I am sure Ebay and similar sites exist in Germany, there is lots of P2P trade without contracts and I don't recall signing a contract the last time I bought a coffee in Germany.I’m amazed at the people here advising the op to pay them off. I’d do absolutely nothing at all, it’s very difficult and expensive for them to pursue any claim against the op.
Edited by bad company on Thursday 24th August 23:41
I am sure the OP would have been upset had he turned up at the event and been turned away . . . . . . he would be here asking how he should chase his compo.
Yes the op would probably have been upset if he’d been turned away from the event but he asked for legal not moral advice here.
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