Is it illegal to come on to someone's property?
Discussion
I've been having a long running issue with my wife's ex husband. He comes onto our property when he picks the kids up. If our cars are not on the drive then he is straight up to the door pressing the bell to wait for the kids and try and peer inside the house. Today I caught him having a mooch through our lounge window. If our cars are on the drive he waits fit the kids (teenagers) to come out. Previously had the police involved with him for entering the house and trying to sexually assault my wife he has also come round with a baseball bat. That was 12 years ago but recently he keeps swearing at the cameras and acting off. He is a mental health nurse with previous mental issues himself.
My question is I guess, is it illegal to come onto someone's property? Or maybe some type of restraining order. Positive help appreciated.
My question is I guess, is it illegal to come onto someone's property? Or maybe some type of restraining order. Positive help appreciated.
He has an implied licence to be there that I don't think you can withdraw.
Peering into windows might cross a line but unless he is threatening then unlikely the police would do anything.
Trespass is civil in England, criminal in Scotland, but again he has reasonable reason to be there.
Three thoughts -
1) Ask him politely if he could wait at the road and text you when he arrives and you will sort out the kids.
2) Kill with kindness. Be openly warm, super nice, say how glad you are to see him, how well he is looking, etc, what plans with the kids etc? give him a nice box of biscuits for him and the kids, etc which will probably freak him out.
3) Ensure his employer know his history - an Enhanced DBS (Disclosure and Barring Service) check does not have a fixed “time limit” or cut-off date, even if it never went to court and was just a warning, or was just soft information from the police. You can tip off anonymously (burner email) via his employers safeguarding team, the CQC, Local Authority Safeguarding Team, the DBS Barring Service. Keep it factual and not emotional. They have a duty to at least investigate, even if they then determine that all is fine. It may be that he didn't fully disclose and the system isnt perfect.
Or both.
Peering into windows might cross a line but unless he is threatening then unlikely the police would do anything.
Trespass is civil in England, criminal in Scotland, but again he has reasonable reason to be there.
Three thoughts -
1) Ask him politely if he could wait at the road and text you when he arrives and you will sort out the kids.
2) Kill with kindness. Be openly warm, super nice, say how glad you are to see him, how well he is looking, etc, what plans with the kids etc? give him a nice box of biscuits for him and the kids, etc which will probably freak him out.
3) Ensure his employer know his history - an Enhanced DBS (Disclosure and Barring Service) check does not have a fixed “time limit” or cut-off date, even if it never went to court and was just a warning, or was just soft information from the police. You can tip off anonymously (burner email) via his employers safeguarding team, the CQC, Local Authority Safeguarding Team, the DBS Barring Service. Keep it factual and not emotional. They have a duty to at least investigate, even if they then determine that all is fine. It may be that he didn't fully disclose and the system isnt perfect.
Or both.
vaud said:
3) Ensure his employer know his history - an Enhanced DBS (Disclosure and Barring Service) check does not have a fixed “time limit” or cut-off date, even if it never went to court and was just a warning, or was just soft information from the police. You can tip off anonymously (burner email) via his employers safeguarding team, the CQC, Local Authority Safeguarding Team, the DBS Barring Service. Keep it factual and not emotional. They have a duty to at least investigate, even if they then determine that all is fine. It may be that he didn't fully disclose and the system isnt perfect.
You shouldn't go after someone's livelihood like this, very underhanded. Also is something that would push an already mental person to more mental actions, and think of the child support no longer coming in.
P675 said:
You shouldn't go after someone's livelihood like this, very underhanded. Also is something that would push an already mental person to more mental actions, and think of the child support no longer coming in.
It's not "go after someone's livelihood like this" - it's not retaliation, it's sharing information that only a few people know to ensure the safety of their patients.It's giving them the information to assess and ensure he disclosed everything - he's a mental health nurse so by definition working with vulnerable people. If he disclosed everything, as he was legally required to do, then there will be no issue, it will be "all OK, no further action, all was disclosed at the time and a risk assessment was done" - he might not even be contacted.
Or do you prefer that previously violent people with mental health issues might not have disclosed key information to their employer and are potentially putting patients at risk? Let's just wait for the inquiry and "lessons will be learned"...
vaud said:
P675 said:
You shouldn't go after someone's livelihood like this, very underhanded. Also is something that would push an already mental person to more mental actions, and think of the child support no longer coming in.
It's not "go after someone's livelihood like this" - it's not retaliation, it's sharing information that only a few people know to ensure the safety of their patients.It's giving them the information to assess and ensure he disclosed everything - he's a mental health nurse so by definition working with vulnerable people. If he disclosed everything, as he was legally required to do, then there will be no issue, it will be "all OK, no further action, all was disclosed at the time and a risk assessment was done" - he might not even be contacted.
Or do you prefer that previously violent people with mental health issues might not have disclosed key information to their employer and are potentially putting patients at risk? Let's just wait for the inquiry and "lessons will be learned"...
If you know when he is coming just close the curtains to thwart his prying.
Presumably the relevance of the “if our cars are on the drive” is that he will approach the property if he thinks that you’re not in, but maintains a distance if he thinks you’re home?
Were the authorities involved in the previous incidents of sexual assault or turning up with a weapon? Surely that would change things somewhat if so, if his current behaviour was causing distress or alarm, for instance?
Were the authorities involved in the previous incidents of sexual assault or turning up with a weapon? Surely that would change things somewhat if so, if his current behaviour was causing distress or alarm, for instance?
Edited by Southerner on Monday 25th August 23:33
No it isn't illegal, you're not likely to get a restraining order unless he commits some kind of crime against you and gets convicted; he's probably just trying to press your buttons and you reacting is giving him what he wants, draw the curtains/blinds the next time he's due to come for the kids.
It would be worth getting the behaviours recorded with Plod. You'll probably get no further action at this stage but should things escalate you will at least have a record.
He's (probably) doing it to intimidate his ex wife. What has changed recently? Has he had a relationship breakdown? Has any alimony or child support he is required to pay changed?
In terms of the intimidation, it sounds like it could be working. I can see why people suggest ensuring his declarations to his employer have been above board. The odds are though that he knows how to play the game, the behaviours on pick up suggest this, so he has probably declared as little as he had to.
If it was me, I would be very visibly be putting cameras up next time he comes round. "The school mums think there is a paedo knocking around and you can't be too careful these days. You haven't seen anyone suspicious have you?". If you really want to stick the boot in bake the old biddy from neighbourhood watch a delicious cake and remind her to report anything suspicious. A marker on his car for that sort of thing could ruin anyone's day.
He's (probably) doing it to intimidate his ex wife. What has changed recently? Has he had a relationship breakdown? Has any alimony or child support he is required to pay changed?
In terms of the intimidation, it sounds like it could be working. I can see why people suggest ensuring his declarations to his employer have been above board. The odds are though that he knows how to play the game, the behaviours on pick up suggest this, so he has probably declared as little as he had to.
If it was me, I would be very visibly be putting cameras up next time he comes round. "The school mums think there is a paedo knocking around and you can't be too careful these days. You haven't seen anyone suspicious have you?". If you really want to stick the boot in bake the old biddy from neighbourhood watch a delicious cake and remind her to report anything suspicious. A marker on his car for that sort of thing could ruin anyone's day.
Collectingbrass said:
It would be worth getting the behaviours recorded with Plod. You'll probably get no further action at this stage but should things escalate you will at least have a record.
He's (probably) doing it to intimidate his ex wife. What has changed recently? Has he had a relationship breakdown? Has any alimony or child support he is required to pay changed?
In terms of the intimidation, it sounds like it could be working. I can see why people suggest ensuring his declarations to his employer have been above board. The odds are though that he knows how to play the game, the behaviours on pick up suggest this, so he has probably declared as little as he had to.
If it was me, I would be very visibly be putting cameras up next time he comes round. "The school mums think there is a paedo knocking around and you can't be too careful these days. You haven't seen anyone suspicious have you?". If you really want to stick the boot in bake the old biddy from neighbourhood watch a delicious cake and remind her to report anything suspicious. A marker on his car for that sort of thing could ruin anyone's day.
I would agree with the first paragraph but as for the rest, well if you trying to make the situation worse then that would probably do it. Anything this person perceives as causing them trouble, the blame will go straight to the ex-wife and partner whether true or not.He's (probably) doing it to intimidate his ex wife. What has changed recently? Has he had a relationship breakdown? Has any alimony or child support he is required to pay changed?
In terms of the intimidation, it sounds like it could be working. I can see why people suggest ensuring his declarations to his employer have been above board. The odds are though that he knows how to play the game, the behaviours on pick up suggest this, so he has probably declared as little as he had to.
If it was me, I would be very visibly be putting cameras up next time he comes round. "The school mums think there is a paedo knocking around and you can't be too careful these days. You haven't seen anyone suspicious have you?". If you really want to stick the boot in bake the old biddy from neighbourhood watch a delicious cake and remind her to report anything suspicious. A marker on his car for that sort of thing could ruin anyone's day.
What you need to do is increase the risk-reward cost to the ex-husband of his behaviour i.e. paragraph 1, visible cctv also helps because his behaviour is captured, a not very subtle hint he will see.
What you are not trying to do is exacerbate his behaviour as the problems will escalate.
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