A316 new speed limit
Discussion
Richmond Bridge now reduced to 30mph. Old 40mph signage simply removed and no advisory signage of change. Lamposts mean 30mph, but that's a really s
tty tactic. They'll be people driving that bridge for 10 years that weren't even born when the last change was made.
Clearly a revenue grab.
tty tactic. They'll be people driving that bridge for 10 years that weren't even born when the last change was made. Clearly a revenue grab.
Colonel Cupcake said:
Surely there has to be at least one new speed limit sign or the last sign that you did pass is the speed limit?
I think what he means is that you used to come from a 30 limit into a 40 limit. Now the 40 has been reduced to 30, so you come from a 30 into a 30 (although it used to be 40) so there would be no need for a new speed limit sign. Although as the last 30 sign that you did pass could have been many miles away I can see why it might catch a lot of people out, especially if they were used to the 40.
mobile chicane22 said:
This is a common tick on some of the roads I use regularly, expect a 1-2 week grace period then regular "safety" vans for "safety enforcement" ( money grab)
There's a local example to me where they've done this, only the new section was NSL and is now 30. No street lighting. No repeaters. For a time they had a temporary "new 30 mph speed limit in force" sign, which is designed for such circumstances as the above.I'd argue that my one isn't in fact enforceable, as the speed limit is not signed. Yes, it's 30 into 30, but there are in fact two different speed limits - the one that applies to restricted roads, and then the one imposed by TTRO.
Solocle said:
There's a local example to me where they've done this, only the new section was NSL and is now 30. No street lighting. No repeaters. For a time they had a temporary "new 30 mph speed limit in force" sign, which is designed for such circumstances as the above.
I'd argue that my one isn't in fact enforceable, as the speed limit is not signed. Yes, it's 30 into 30, but there are in fact two different speed limits - the one that applies to restricted roads, and then the one imposed by TTRO.
But what did you're driving instructor drum into you, was it something like..."absent of signage, any residential area with regular street lighting must be assumed to be a 30mph limit"?I'd argue that my one isn't in fact enforceable, as the speed limit is not signed. Yes, it's 30 into 30, but there are in fact two different speed limits - the one that applies to restricted roads, and then the one imposed by TTRO.
Of course, 30+ years after I passed my test, I assume that would have to be modified to 20mph just in case!
mmm-five said:
Solocle said:
There's a local example to me where they've done this, only the new section was NSL and is now 30. No street lighting. No repeaters. For a time they had a temporary "new 30 mph speed limit in force" sign, which is designed for such circumstances as the above.
I'd argue that my one isn't in fact enforceable, as the speed limit is not signed. Yes, it's 30 into 30, but there are in fact two different speed limits - the one that applies to restricted roads, and then the one imposed by TTRO.
But what did you're driving instructor drum into you, was it something like..."absent of signage, any residential area with regular street lighting must be assumed to be a 30mph limit"?I'd argue that my one isn't in fact enforceable, as the speed limit is not signed. Yes, it's 30 into 30, but there are in fact two different speed limits - the one that applies to restricted roads, and then the one imposed by TTRO.
Of course, 30+ years after I passed my test, I assume that would have to be modified to 20mph just in case!
And in particular, when the road used to be NSL, but the council let it get so overgrown that you couldn't see the sign.
There's an NSL sign in that picture, and the system of street lighting ceases at that point (there are sporadic lights further down, but not a system thereof).
Take the NSL sign away, and my contention is that you still have an NSL-by-default road.
Oxfordshire are good at this. The A420 is 50 for its length throughout Oxon, apart from stretches of dual which have all been NSL. However a shortish stretch of dual carriageway at Besselsleigh which until recently was NSL and marked accordingly, meaning 70 on that stretch, has changed without any warning.Oone morning the NSL signs had gone, never to return, so that stretch of 70 becomes 50. Hasn't made the slightest difference to the speed most drivers travel at (IE 80) but no doubt the camera vans will appear before long.
Oxfordshire are good at this. The A420 is 50 for its length throughout Oxon, apart from stretches of dual which have all been NSL. However a shortish stretch of dual carriageway at Besselsleigh which until recently was NSL and marked accordingly, meaning 70 on that stretch, has changed without any warning.Oone morning the NSL signs had gone, never to return, so that stretch of 70 becomes 50. Hasn't made the slightest difference to the speed most drivers travel at (IE 80) but no doubt the camera vans will appear before long.
Solocle said:
mmm-five said:
Solocle said:
There's a local example to me where they've done this, only the new section was NSL and is now 30. No street lighting. No repeaters. For a time they had a temporary "new 30 mph speed limit in force" sign, which is designed for such circumstances as the above.
I'd argue that my one isn't in fact enforceable, as the speed limit is not signed. Yes, it's 30 into 30, but there are in fact two different speed limits - the one that applies to restricted roads, and then the one imposed by TTRO.
But what did you're driving instructor drum into you, was it something like..."absent of signage, any residential area with regular street lighting must be assumed to be a 30mph limit"?I'd argue that my one isn't in fact enforceable, as the speed limit is not signed. Yes, it's 30 into 30, but there are in fact two different speed limits - the one that applies to restricted roads, and then the one imposed by TTRO.
Of course, 30+ years after I passed my test, I assume that would have to be modified to 20mph just in case!
And in particular, when the road used to be NSL, but the council let it get so overgrown that you couldn't see the sign.
There's an NSL sign in that picture, and the system of street lighting ceases at that point (there are sporadic lights further down, but not a system thereof).
Take the NSL sign away, and my contention is that you still have an NSL-by-default road.
If driving into that area from a 30 & no change signage is seen, I would still be asuming 30.
If driving into that area from the 60, I take it there is a 30 sign..... Simple, obviously assuming there is a 30 sign when coming from the NSL.
I remember in the early days of speed awareness courses (probably 20 yeas ago now), where it was a whole day and half of it was spent having a casual in-car assessment by one of the tutors.
We got to a bit of dual-carriageway with street lights that I 'knew' was 50mph, but wasn't signed very well (probably one repeater every couple of miles, and maybe a sign as you joined at a major junction). It's 40mph now has regular repeaters.
We came on at a minor junction from a 30mph road and I continued along at 30mph for about 1/2 a mile until the tutor asked why I was driving so slowly. My reply was that it was a dual-carriageway with regularly-spaced street lights and no speed limit or repeaters displayed.
His response was that he "was local and knew it was 50mph"!
...and I pointed out that that was a similar reason that I had to attend this speed awareness course instead - or go to court to argue my case about lack of correct signage on DC after street lights had recently been installed.
We got to a bit of dual-carriageway with street lights that I 'knew' was 50mph, but wasn't signed very well (probably one repeater every couple of miles, and maybe a sign as you joined at a major junction). It's 40mph now has regular repeaters.
We came on at a minor junction from a 30mph road and I continued along at 30mph for about 1/2 a mile until the tutor asked why I was driving so slowly. My reply was that it was a dual-carriageway with regularly-spaced street lights and no speed limit or repeaters displayed.
His response was that he "was local and knew it was 50mph"!
...and I pointed out that that was a similar reason that I had to attend this speed awareness course instead - or go to court to argue my case about lack of correct signage on DC after street lights had recently been installed.
That'll further scupper that route to my Dad's then. The average cameras and traffic lights on the roundabouts at Twickenham/Isleworth/Manor Road already make the journey more painful than it needs to be.
Universal slowing everything down well in progress, even on a big old road. Shame.
Universal slowing everything down well in progress, even on a big old road. Shame.
A country road local to me was 40 then an NSL stretch, changing to 40 again at a village boundary.
They resurfaced and took the NSL signs down as part of that process. The signs were not re-erected.
It was about 6 months before I realised that the signs weren't coming back, and the road was now a 40. No "Reduced Speed limit" or "New Speed Limit in Force" signs were displayed.
They resurfaced and took the NSL signs down as part of that process. The signs were not re-erected.
It was about 6 months before I realised that the signs weren't coming back, and the road was now a 40. No "Reduced Speed limit" or "New Speed Limit in Force" signs were displayed.
Solocle said:
There's a local example to me where they've done this, only the new section was NSL and is now 30. No street lighting. No repeaters. For a time they had a temporary "new 30 mph speed limit in force" sign, which is designed for such circumstances as the above.
I'd argue that my one isn't in fact enforceable, as the speed limit is not signed. Yes, it's 30 into 30, but there are in fact two different speed limits - the one that applies to restricted roads, and then the one imposed by TTRO.
So not a 30 mph limit then.I'd argue that my one isn't in fact enforceable, as the speed limit is not signed. Yes, it's 30 into 30, but there are in fact two different speed limits - the one that applies to restricted roads, and then the one imposed by TTRO.
Solocle said:
There's a local example to me where they've done this, only the new section was NSL and is now 30. No street lighting. No repeaters. For a time they had a temporary "new 30 mph speed limit in force" sign, which is designed for such circumstances as the above.
I'd argue that my one isn't in fact enforceable, as the speed limit is not signed. Yes, it's 30 into 30, but there are in fact two different speed limits - the one that applies to restricted roads, and then the one imposed by TTRO.
What do you mean 30 into 30? Do you mean there's a sign further back along the road clearly showing 30, then there's a section with no repeaters but with street lights; then further along, there are no longer street lights?I'd argue that my one isn't in fact enforceable, as the speed limit is not signed. Yes, it's 30 into 30, but there are in fact two different speed limits - the one that applies to restricted roads, and then the one imposed by TTRO.
Up until recently, it was actually against the signage guidelines to show "30" repeater signs. The fact that there was street lighting acted as the repeater/guideline/reminder.
Fact is, repeaters aren't a requirement to sign a speed limit, the fact that there's a 30 further back on the road is enough.
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