On street parking & disabled spaces
Discussion
The centre of Stirling is a controlled parking zone with the start of the zone marked by signs saying "Controlled zone. Monday - Saturday 8.45am - 5.30pm". From that point all on street parked spaces are marked off with white lines and signs which show the spaces as either being resident only or pay at machine. All signs also show "Mon - Sat 8.45am - 5.30pm". Until recently disabled spaces were marked "Disabled badge holders only Mon-Sat 8.45am-5.30pm".
However, the disabled spaces now have signs saying simply "Disabled badge holders only" with no relevant hours shown. A couple of nights ago I noticed council parking enforcement officers issuing tickets to cars parked in these area without blue badges. This was at 8.30pm on a cold, wet February night.
My question is this - can disabled spaces be 24 hour and if so, should the signs reflect this? Also, if an area is shown as a controlled zone during a certain period, can there be more restrictive zones in it?
Thoughts, please!
However, the disabled spaces now have signs saying simply "Disabled badge holders only" with no relevant hours shown. A couple of nights ago I noticed council parking enforcement officers issuing tickets to cars parked in these area without blue badges. This was at 8.30pm on a cold, wet February night.
My question is this - can disabled spaces be 24 hour and if so, should the signs reflect this? Also, if an area is shown as a controlled zone during a certain period, can there be more restrictive zones in it?
Thoughts, please!
I will go against the grain here.
Last year I got a PCN for parking in a disabled space in London, which was in a CPZ, that was operational between 08.30 - 18.30. The sign said "disabled badge holders only".
I parked between 01.00 - 04.00 and got a PCN at 01.41.
Bang to rights, most would say on here.
However, I appealed the PCN and won, by using the following argument:
1. The PCN was issued outside of the CPZ controlled hours.
2. The signage at the parking bay stated “Disabled badge holders only”. No hours of active operation were stated on the signage, therefore it was believed that the operational hours of the bay were in accordance with the operational hours of the CPZ.
3.Under TSRGD, one of the permitted variations to disabled parking bay signage is; “Disabled badge holders at all times”.
4. If it was the council’s contention that the disabled parking bay is operational at all times, including outside of the operational hours of the CPZ, then the bay signage should have been appropriately worded to that effect, in accordance with TSRGD. In essence, the council have used the wrong sign.
Like I said, my representation was accepted on the above grounds but I can't vouch for how others may fare in a similar situation.
My advice is to always challenge a PCN.
Last year I got a PCN for parking in a disabled space in London, which was in a CPZ, that was operational between 08.30 - 18.30. The sign said "disabled badge holders only".
I parked between 01.00 - 04.00 and got a PCN at 01.41.
Bang to rights, most would say on here.
However, I appealed the PCN and won, by using the following argument:
1. The PCN was issued outside of the CPZ controlled hours.
2. The signage at the parking bay stated “Disabled badge holders only”. No hours of active operation were stated on the signage, therefore it was believed that the operational hours of the bay were in accordance with the operational hours of the CPZ.
3.Under TSRGD, one of the permitted variations to disabled parking bay signage is; “Disabled badge holders at all times”.
4. If it was the council’s contention that the disabled parking bay is operational at all times, including outside of the operational hours of the CPZ, then the bay signage should have been appropriately worded to that effect, in accordance with TSRGD. In essence, the council have used the wrong sign.
Like I said, my representation was accepted on the above grounds but I can't vouch for how others may fare in a similar situation.
My advice is to always challenge a PCN.
I've no problem with ticketing people who park in disabled spaces - my mother in law is disabled. What I found a bit strange is that so many 24 hour disabled only parking spaces (which used to be 8.45am to 5.30pm) now exist in a city centre which is pretty deserted at night during the week. I didn't see many blue badge holders circling trying to find a space...
I suspect it is more of a revenue source for the council rather than trying to make life easier for the disabled!
I suspect it is more of a revenue source for the council rather than trying to make life easier for the disabled!
matchmaker said:
I've no problem with ticketing people who park in disabled spaces - my mother in law is disabled. What I found a bit strange is that so many 24 hour disabled only parking spaces (which used to be 8.45am to 5.30pm) now exist in a city centre which is pretty deserted at night during the week. I didn't see many blue badge holders circling trying to find a space...
I suspect it is more of a revenue source for the council rather than trying to make life easier for the disabled!
It might be worth reading the TRO for the CPZ to see what the original intention was when the CPZ was put in place.I suspect it is more of a revenue source for the council rather than trying to make life easier for the disabled!
Like I said above, the council have alternative signage they should use if the intention is for the disabled bays to be 24 hours, outside of the CPZ hours.
Mandat said:
I will go against the grain here.
Last year I got a PCN for parking in a disabled space in London, which was in a CPZ, that was operational between 08.30 - 18.30. The sign said "disabled badge holders only".
I parked between 01.00 - 04.00 and got a PCN at 01.41.
Bang to rights, most would say on here.
However, I appealed the PCN and won, by using the following argument:
1. The PCN was issued outside of the CPZ controlled hours.
2. The signage at the parking bay stated “Disabled badge holders only”. No hours of active operation were stated on the signage, therefore it was believed that the operational hours of the bay were in accordance with the operational hours of the CPZ.
3.Under TSRGD, one of the permitted variations to disabled parking bay signage is; “Disabled badge holders at all times”.
4. If it was the council’s contention that the disabled parking bay is operational at all times, including outside of the operational hours of the CPZ, then the bay signage should have been appropriately worded to that effect, in accordance with TSRGD. In essence, the council have used the wrong sign.
Like I said, my representation was accepted on the above grounds but I can't vouch for how others may fare in a similar situation.
My advice is to always challenge a PCN.
So you felt good about parking in a disabled parking bay? Last year I got a PCN for parking in a disabled space in London, which was in a CPZ, that was operational between 08.30 - 18.30. The sign said "disabled badge holders only".
I parked between 01.00 - 04.00 and got a PCN at 01.41.
Bang to rights, most would say on here.
However, I appealed the PCN and won, by using the following argument:
1. The PCN was issued outside of the CPZ controlled hours.
2. The signage at the parking bay stated “Disabled badge holders only”. No hours of active operation were stated on the signage, therefore it was believed that the operational hours of the bay were in accordance with the operational hours of the CPZ.
3.Under TSRGD, one of the permitted variations to disabled parking bay signage is; “Disabled badge holders at all times”.
4. If it was the council’s contention that the disabled parking bay is operational at all times, including outside of the operational hours of the CPZ, then the bay signage should have been appropriately worded to that effect, in accordance with TSRGD. In essence, the council have used the wrong sign.
Like I said, my representation was accepted on the above grounds but I can't vouch for how others may fare in a similar situation.
My advice is to always challenge a PCN.
4rephill said:
Mandat said:
I will go against the grain here.
Last year I got a PCN for parking in a disabled space in London, which was in a CPZ, that was operational between 08.30 - 18.30. The sign said "disabled badge holders only".
I parked between 01.00 - 04.00 and got a PCN at 01.41.
Bang to rights, most would say on here.
However, I appealed the PCN and won, by using the following argument:
1. The PCN was issued outside of the CPZ controlled hours.
2. The signage at the parking bay stated “Disabled badge holders only”. No hours of active operation were stated on the signage, therefore it was believed that the operational hours of the bay were in accordance with the operational hours of the CPZ.
3.Under TSRGD, one of the permitted variations to disabled parking bay signage is; “Disabled badge holders at all times”.
4. If it was the council’s contention that the disabled parking bay is operational at all times, including outside of the operational hours of the CPZ, then the bay signage should have been appropriately worded to that effect, in accordance with TSRGD. In essence, the council have used the wrong sign.
Like I said, my representation was accepted on the above grounds but I can't vouch for how others may fare in a similar situation.
My advice is to always challenge a PCN.
So you felt good about parking in a disabled parking bay? Last year I got a PCN for parking in a disabled space in London, which was in a CPZ, that was operational between 08.30 - 18.30. The sign said "disabled badge holders only".
I parked between 01.00 - 04.00 and got a PCN at 01.41.
Bang to rights, most would say on here.
However, I appealed the PCN and won, by using the following argument:
1. The PCN was issued outside of the CPZ controlled hours.
2. The signage at the parking bay stated “Disabled badge holders only”. No hours of active operation were stated on the signage, therefore it was believed that the operational hours of the bay were in accordance with the operational hours of the CPZ.
3.Under TSRGD, one of the permitted variations to disabled parking bay signage is; “Disabled badge holders at all times”.
4. If it was the council’s contention that the disabled parking bay is operational at all times, including outside of the operational hours of the CPZ, then the bay signage should have been appropriately worded to that effect, in accordance with TSRGD. In essence, the council have used the wrong sign.
Like I said, my representation was accepted on the above grounds but I can't vouch for how others may fare in a similar situation.
My advice is to always challenge a PCN.
4rephill said:
So you felt good about parking in a disabled parking bay?
When outside of controlled hours, I have no qualms with using disabled bays, residents permit bays, P&D bays, red route bays, yellow lines, etc. I also even use non-operational bus lanes, when available.Why should anyone feel bad for doing so?
Mandat said:
I will go against the grain here.
Last year I got a PCN for parking in a disabled space in London, which was in a CPZ, that was operational between 08.30 - 18.30. The sign said "disabled badge holders only".
I parked between 01.00 - 04.00 and got a PCN at 01.41.
Bang to rights, most would say on here.
However, I appealed the PCN and won, by using the following argument:
1. The PCN was issued outside of the CPZ controlled hours.
2. The signage at the parking bay stated “Disabled badge holders only”. No hours of active operation were stated on the signage, therefore it was believed that the operational hours of the bay were in accordance with the operational hours of the CPZ.
3.Under TSRGD, one of the permitted variations to disabled parking bay signage is; “Disabled badge holders at all times”.
4. If it was the council’s contention that the disabled parking bay is operational at all times, including outside of the operational hours of the CPZ, then the bay signage should have been appropriately worded to that effect, in accordance with TSRGD. In essence, the council have used the wrong sign.
Like I said, my representation was accepted on the above grounds but I can't vouch for how others may fare in a similar situation.
My advice is to always challenge a PCN.
Good for you, you park wherever you like. You just ignore those "disabled badge holders only" signs. After all, why should the disabled get "special" treatment when you don't? Don't they know who you are? Last year I got a PCN for parking in a disabled space in London, which was in a CPZ, that was operational between 08.30 - 18.30. The sign said "disabled badge holders only".
I parked between 01.00 - 04.00 and got a PCN at 01.41.
Bang to rights, most would say on here.
However, I appealed the PCN and won, by using the following argument:
1. The PCN was issued outside of the CPZ controlled hours.
2. The signage at the parking bay stated “Disabled badge holders only”. No hours of active operation were stated on the signage, therefore it was believed that the operational hours of the bay were in accordance with the operational hours of the CPZ.
3.Under TSRGD, one of the permitted variations to disabled parking bay signage is; “Disabled badge holders at all times”.
4. If it was the council’s contention that the disabled parking bay is operational at all times, including outside of the operational hours of the CPZ, then the bay signage should have been appropriately worded to that effect, in accordance with TSRGD. In essence, the council have used the wrong sign.
Like I said, my representation was accepted on the above grounds but I can't vouch for how others may fare in a similar situation.
My advice is to always challenge a PCN.
t
t.Mandat said:
4rephill said:
So you felt good about parking in a disabled parking bay?
When outside of controlled hours, I have no qualms with using disabled bays, residents permit bays, P&D bays, red route bays, yellow lines, etc. I also even use non-operational bus lanes, when available.Why should anyone feel bad for doing so?
unrepentant said:
Good for you, you park wherever you like. You just ignore those "disabled badge holders only" signs. After all, why should the disabled get "special" treatment when you don't? Don't they know who you are? tt.
I suppose you sulk and shake your fistt.when people drive in bus lanes that are not really bus lanes because they are outside prescribed hours.
The same applies to some disabled bays you spanner.
ETA some fecker with a BB was parked on the pavement in a Clearway today. A BB is not a free for all park like a t
t badge.Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 22 February 00:06
matchmaker said:
What I found a bit strange is that so many 24 hour disabled only parking spaces now exist in a city centre which is pretty deserted at night during the week.
If it's "pretty deserted at night during the week" then surely you'll be able to find a space to park (without parking in a disabled bay)? So what's really your beef here?Mandat said:
I will go against the grain here.
Last year I got a PCN for parking in a disabled space in London, which was in a CPZ, that was operational between 08.30 - 18.30. The sign said "disabled badge holders only".
I parked between 01.00 - 04.00 and got a PCN at 01.41.
Bang to rights, most would say on here.
However, I appealed the PCN and won, by using the following argument:
1. The PCN was issued outside of the CPZ controlled hours.
2. The signage at the parking bay stated “Disabled badge holders only”. No hours of active operation were stated on the signage, therefore it was believed that the operational hours of the bay were in accordance with the operational hours of the CPZ.
3.Under TSRGD, one of the permitted variations to disabled parking bay signage is; “Disabled badge holders at all times”.
4. If it was the council’s contention that the disabled parking bay is operational at all times, including outside of the operational hours of the CPZ, then the bay signage should have been appropriately worded to that effect, in accordance with TSRGD. In essence, the council have used the wrong sign.
Like I said, my representation was accepted on the above grounds but I can't vouch for how others may fare in a similar situation.
My advice is to always challenge a PCN.
It’s strange that the ticket was overturned on that basis. I’ve never encountered a Disabled Parking Bay that was only restricted during certain hours. AFAIAA they’re 24/7, and that’s what I would have assumed based on the signage that you’ve quoted. It also looks like that’s what the Council intended, so it does seem slightly perverse that the ticket was overturned.Last year I got a PCN for parking in a disabled space in London, which was in a CPZ, that was operational between 08.30 - 18.30. The sign said "disabled badge holders only".
I parked between 01.00 - 04.00 and got a PCN at 01.41.
Bang to rights, most would say on here.
However, I appealed the PCN and won, by using the following argument:
1. The PCN was issued outside of the CPZ controlled hours.
2. The signage at the parking bay stated “Disabled badge holders only”. No hours of active operation were stated on the signage, therefore it was believed that the operational hours of the bay were in accordance with the operational hours of the CPZ.
3.Under TSRGD, one of the permitted variations to disabled parking bay signage is; “Disabled badge holders at all times”.
4. If it was the council’s contention that the disabled parking bay is operational at all times, including outside of the operational hours of the CPZ, then the bay signage should have been appropriately worded to that effect, in accordance with TSRGD. In essence, the council have used the wrong sign.
Like I said, my representation was accepted on the above grounds but I can't vouch for how others may fare in a similar situation.
My advice is to always challenge a PCN.
Did you genuinely believe that the Disabled bay wasn’t “restricted” during the hours that you parked there? I’m guessing you would have parked elsewhere within the CPZ but all those spaces were taken and only the disabled bay was empty - did that not strike you as strange?
If the signs at the start of the Controlled Parking Zone say Monday - Saturday 8.45am - 5.30pm I'd have assumed outside of those times, the restriction signs within the zone are not 'active'.
The sign might say Disabled Badge Holders Only but as it's within a CPZ with certain operating hours I'd have thought the sign would need to tell me if it was operating different times than the signs at the start of the zone.
Many times, I've driven into a CPZ outside of the hours of operation and parked up in a bay without even checking the signs next to it as in my mind, it's 7PM so therefore the CPZ is not active.
The sign might say Disabled Badge Holders Only but as it's within a CPZ with certain operating hours I'd have thought the sign would need to tell me if it was operating different times than the signs at the start of the zone.
Many times, I've driven into a CPZ outside of the hours of operation and parked up in a bay without even checking the signs next to it as in my mind, it's 7PM so therefore the CPZ is not active.
Countdown said:
It’s strange that the ticket was overturned on that basis. I’ve never encountered a Disabled Parking Bay that was only restricted during certain hours. AFAIAA they’re 24/7, and that’s what I would have assumed based on the signage that you’ve quoted. It also looks like that’s what the Council intended, so it does seem slightly perverse that the ticket was overturned.
Did you genuinely believe that the Disabled bay wasn’t “restricted” during the hours that you parked there? I’m guessing you would have parked elsewhere within the CPZ but all those spaces were taken and only the disabled bay was empty - did that not strike you as strange?
On the basis that the alternative disabled bay sign is "Disabled badge holders at all times", this can only mean that "Disabled badge holders only" is not applicable at all times. If both signs mean 24/7 then what's the point of having the different signs.Did you genuinely believe that the Disabled bay wasn’t “restricted” during the hours that you parked there? I’m guessing you would have parked elsewhere within the CPZ but all those spaces were taken and only the disabled bay was empty - did that not strike you as strange?
Since the parking bay was in a CPZ and it was way outside of the CPZ operational hours, the only logical conclusion is that the disabled bay was subject to the CPZ hours.
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