Self manage a rental flat

[iidentifyaswoke]

I have a BTL which has been rented out for 10 years. Been managed through an estate agent, who isn't cheap. Tenants who are quite ok have been there 4 years.

Have just found out the agent has been doing even less work than I thought and I want to dump the agent and manage it myself, at least while these tenants want to live there. No plans for a new lease, it can stay periodic.

There is no gas connected, only electric.

Is there a checklist of what I need to do? The online guides only say the obvious stuff, like think about what to do if something breaks. I'm more thinking of what mandatory certificates are there? Do I need to transfer the tenant's deposit or can it stay wherever the estate agent put it?

[Plus8]

My advice would be as follows, and I speak as a private landlord and not a lawyer, and manage my own Tenants:
To make life easier if you unfortunately have to evict a Tenant in the future, make sure you have the following on file and have issued to the Tenant:
Tenancy Agreement
EPC Certificate (valid 10 years)
Electrical Certificate (valid 5 years)
Gas Certificate (Not Applicable)
How To Rent Guide. (Latest version, as they tend to change regularly)
Keep copies of all e mails/letters etc between you and the Tenant.

Speaking from experience I believe it is going to be more difficult to evict Tenants in the future as the Government are scrapping the Section 21 (no fault eviction) and you may have to rely on “Grounds” to evict, so “I just want my property back”, may not be a good enough reason.
So my main advise would be to keep your paperwork up to date.

[Sir Bagalot]

To add:

Find out EXACTLY were that deposit is. Why? Because you're responsible for it, not the agent. Yes, it can be transferred to your name easily is using the same scheme.

Check the terms you signed with the agent, it will spell out the cancellation terms. Remember that some terms are unfair and unenforceable

Join somewhere like NRLA, it's £85 pa, which is tax deductible. They will have stloads of info' for you to read/watch

Edited by Sir Bagalot on Wednesday 18th October 22:52

[rgf100]

> I just want my property back”, may not be a good enough reason.

So, speaking from Scotland where these rules are already in place…

It depends why you want the property back. “To rent it out to someone else because you’ve been complaining about repairs” doesn’t work. “To live in” or “to sell” does.

Also, the new rules only applied to new tenancies. They weren’t retrospective for existing tenancies.

Obviously England might do things differently, but I wouldn’t expect them to be tougher on landlords than Scotland and I think what’s in place up here probably serves as a “worst case” from landlords point of view.

[Griffith4ever]

Do it. Some great advice above . I self managed my old house in London. Once I found out how little the letting agents actually did, and that any eviction or late rent issues would still ultimately end up at my feet, I went alone. I was also encouraged to do it after seeing how lax the whole reference and vetting system is (see below for confirmation!!). Doing your own interview gives you a good handle on the person.

Mine was trouble free , but still refused to leave when I decided to sell, so did a 21 and got her out, but, I was blackmailed into giving her a good ongoing reference to smooth the departure....

[plenty]

Check your contract with the letting agent. They may still try to charge annual renewal fees for the same tenant even if you self-manage.

[MitchT]

Speaking as a tenant, make sure you have mechanisms in place whereby tenants can get the support they need, when the need arises. We had an issue where a the lock on the only door in and out of the house failed and we were stuck inside. We couldn't get out to get to work and couldn't get hold of our landlord because he was overseas. We ended up having to get a locksmith at our own expense to break in and temporarily repair the door which then had reduced security due to it being a cheap, stty door that had expanded in the heat and all the metal bits around the edge had to be removed before it would close again. Needless to say, this probably invalidated our contents insurance until it was fixed properly by the company that had supplied the door in the first place after the landlord got back. The landlord or some other suitable representative should have been there on the day so we could have got on with our lives, but that didn't happen. While I don't intend any offence to the OP, I get the impression that landlords who don't use managed lets are tightwads, bodgers and cowboys who are desperate to hold on to every penny at the expense of providing an adequate service to the wretched peasants who are working to subsidise their property portfolio.

Edited by MitchT on Thursday 19th October 12:23

[plenty]

MitchT said:

I get the impression that landlords who don't use managed lets are tightwads, bodgers and cowboys who are desperate to hold on to every penny at the expense of providing an adequate service the the wretched peasants who are working to subsidise their property portfolio.

I am both a tenant and a landlord. As a tenant, my experience with managing agents has consistently poor. And that is precisely the reason I self-manage as a landlord - to give my tenants a much better experience than they would get from an agent.

[Griffith4ever]

MitchT said:

Speaking as a tenant, make sure you have mechanisms in place whereby tenants can get the support they need, when the need arises. We had an issue where a the lock on the only door in and out of the house failed and we were stuck inside. We couldn't get out to get to work and couldn't get hold of our landlord because he was overseas. We ended up having to get a locksmith at our own expense to break in and temporarily repair the door which then had reduced security due to it being a cheap, stty door that had expanded in the heat and all the metal bits around the edge had to be removed before it would close again. Needless to say, this probably invalidated our contents insurance until it was fixed properly by the company that had supplied the door in the first place after the landlord got back. The landlord or some other suitable representative should have been there on the day so we could have got on with our lives, but that didn't happen. While I don't intend any offence to the OP, I get the impression that landlords who don't use managed lets are tightwads, bodgers and cowboys who are desperate to hold on to every penny at the expense of providing an adequate service the the wretched peasants who are working to subsidise their property portfolio.

To be fair - I managed mine from overseas. And I'm no tightwad. I had a friend locally who I paid for call outs. I don't think expexting same day service is reasonable as a tenant. There has to be an element of helping yourself ( which you clearly did). The net result is my tenant paid me £xxx, instead of £xxxx as I'd charge extra for using an agent (they take at least 20%, often more like 40% if you go fully "empty my pockets" managed.

I know a professional landlord and he won't be on your doorstep the day you call him. He'll sub it and they'll come when they can come. He has blocks of flats and many houses.

Aint nothing tightwad about self managing. Letting companies are extortionate, and if you can manage it yourself then you'd be mad not to.

Saying that, you just can't factor in how hopeless some people are. I pay for house sitters when I'm away for the winter. Nice kids. Last winter the front door swelled, as it does when the weather changes and you have a solid wood door. Consequently the mortice but wasn't perfectly aligned and you have to pull/push the door firmly to unlock/lock it. They totally gave up, knackering the inside handle in the process and proceeded to use the back door only (I was in constant email contact). Then, the back door did the same (we live with this every winter and its no problem at all. It's a very old listed building. They knackered the handles inside and out, broke the door frame at the bottom from kicking, and again, gave up, and at one stage used the kitchen window instead.....

They also rotate a sink tap so much it loosened the pipe below and leaked, and prob just bad luck, blew up the shower pump (I sent a plumber out to replace, but they had to have baths only for a week as that's the soonest the parts and the plumber were available).

When we got back I opened the front door immediately, and mrs G opened the back door the same.

We are paying a mate to visit the cats daily this year. No house sitters.

[MitchT]

plenty said:

I am both a tenant and a landlord. As a tenant, my experience with managing agents has consistently poor. And that is precisely the reason I self-manage as a landlord - to give my tenants a much better experience than they would get from an agent.

I've rented four places. The first one was a managed let. 24 hour contacts for everything and stuff sorted promptly. The other three were self-managed. First of them was an overgrown manchild who didn't protect our deposit and thought everything was one big laugh, second one sold the house from underneath us after assuring us that they were in it for the long haul, current one is the one I've already described. The only reason we're still here is because we love the area and are waiting for someone to sell up so we can buy as we can now comfortably afford to.

[Griffith4ever]

Last house I rented was "long term" - full managed one. Paid all the fees etc etc Redecorated the lounge with the agency confirmed they'd pay materials for.

LL sold within 10 months (was on 6 months pre-paid then rolling). Bloody nightmare. Had just taken on 2 kittens too. Fun finding the next place. Gave up and bought a place after that. Agency told me so bugger off when I asked for the paint money.

[MitchT]

Essentially, all I'm saying to the OP is, make sure your tenants can at leats get hold of someone in an emergency. I accept that you can't always fix something immediately. It'd be the same if someone owned their own home. But don't just leave tenants in a position where something goes wrong and they can't get hold of anyone, "anyone" being you if you've chosen not to get the let managed. I've been renting since 2009 and it's a pretty miserable experience however you look at it. My only saving grace is totally changing career last year and having a couple of inheritances this year, so now, finally, earning enough to afford the size of mortgage needed with a good chunk of deposit.

Edited by MitchT on Thursday 19th October 13:03

[plenty]

MitchT said:

I've rented four places. The first one was a managed let. 24 hour contacts for everything and stuff sorted promptly. The other three were self-managed. First of them was an overgrown manchild who didn't protect our deposit and thought everything was one big laugh, second one sold the house from underneath us after assuring us that they were in it for the long haul, current one is the one I've already described.

Not at all surprised, sadly. I've never rented directly but if I did I would try to vet the landlord as much as possible ahead of time. Appreciate that's not always possible.

[MitchT]

8am this morning, water pouring through the kitchen ceiling. Turned stop tap off. Water still pouring through ceiling. Turn off isolation valve on the toilet directly upstairs, water gradually stops. Phone landlord at 8:19 after getting the immediate crisis under control. No answer. Text landlord. Two hours mopping up water and arranging with family to use their facilities. Still no answer from landlord as I type this at 10:55. Surely the very least someone can do if they want to self manage and they're not willing to consider themself "on-call" is provide a list of contact numbers for the tradesmen they're happy to use in the event of an emegency so you can sort it yourself.

[98elise]

MitchT said:

I get the impression that landlords who don't use managed lets are tightwads, bodgers and cowboys who are desperate to hold on to every penny at the expense of providing an adequate service to the wretched peasants who are working to subsidise their property portfolio.

Edited by MitchT on Thursday 19th October 12:23

As a landlord who manages all their properties I would disagree.

My tenants get everything fixed as soon as possible. I only use trades I trust, so when my plumber says a boiler fault would be better solved by a new boiler, that's what happens. I'll authorise the work over the phone.

The lack of an agent means there are no delays, and no additional expenses. It also means I can (and do) charge below market rents.

[over_the_hill]

MitchT said:

8am this morning, water pouring through the kitchen ceiling. Turned stop tap off. Water still pouring through ceiling. Turn off isolation valve on the toilet directly upstairs, water gradually stops. Phone landlord at 8:19 after getting the immediate crisis under control. No answer. Text landlord. Two hours mopping up water and arranging with family to use their facilities. Still no answer from landlord as I type this at 10:55. Surely the very least someone can do if they want to self manage and they're not willing to consider themself "on-call" is provide a list of contact numbers for the tradesmen they're happy to use in the event of an emegency so you can sort it yourself.

From the other viewpoint as a self managing landlord, when you are just about to head off for a big day out or weekend away,
are you prepared to scrap the plans because tenant MitchT is on the phone first thing with a major problem (and quite rightly)
expects you to do something about it asap.

[98elise]

over_the_hill said:

MitchT said:

8am this morning, water pouring through the kitchen ceiling. Turned stop tap off. Water still pouring through ceiling. Turn off isolation valve on the toilet directly upstairs, water gradually stops. Phone landlord at 8:19 after getting the immediate crisis under control. No answer. Text landlord. Two hours mopping up water and arranging with family to use their facilities. Still no answer from landlord as I type this at 10:55. Surely the very least someone can do if they want to self manage and they're not willing to consider themself "on-call" is provide a list of contact numbers for the tradesmen they're happy to use in the event of an emegency so you can sort it yourself.

From the other viewpoint as a self managing landlord, when you are just about to head off for a big day out or weekend away,
are you prepared to scrap the plans because tenant MitchT is on the phone first thing with a major problem (and quite rightly)
expects you to do something about it asap.

As a self managing landlord I wouldn't need to cancel any plans. I would phone the plumber I use for gas certs and ask him to fix the problem.

It's no different to what an agent would do, except the agent might also need to coordinate with the LL.

I've also told my tenants that if I'm uncontactable then I will pay any reasonable emergency work they have to get done.

[plenty]

98elise said:

As a self managing landlord I wouldn't need to cancel any plans. I would phone the plumber I use for gas certs and ask him to fix the problem.

It's no different to what an agent would do, except the agent might also need to coordinate with the LL.

I've also told my tenants that if I'm uncontactable then I will pay any reasonable emergency work they have to get done.

Same here. In fact it's written into my tenant's contract that I (landlord) will respond within 24 hours to at minimum acknowledge. Fortunately I have a network of reliable tradespeople that I can call on.

OTOH the managing agent of the flat I'm renting as a tenant has a portal for reporting problems and their response time is woeful (I typically have to resort to contacting someone individually).