40 and 50mph speed limits - why?

[ingenieur]

Speed Matters. And I was just thinking about some of the roads locally and how erosion of limits have seen some of the national speed limit (NSL) roads being reduced in some sections to 40 or 50mph.

I just wondered what opinions people had on these slightly lower limits (lower than NSL) when they're still fairly high speeds if an accident were to take place. 40mph hitting a pedestrian, crashing into a wall or hitting a driver coming in the opposite direction... you would feel that.

If the argument is that 60mph is too high so it should be 40mph instead... on what basis. I'm sure there's probably an official answer but I don't think it'll surprise anybody if and when it is discovered.

[plfrench]

Energy use?

[DickP]

I think lower speed limits aldo reduce road maintenance standards required so lower costs for councils.

[richs2891]

Lower maintenance costs on a 40 or 50 mph road than for a NSL ?

LOL too slow there - would have been ok if it was still a NSL !

[Dave Hedgehog]

political goal is for the removal of personal motorised transport in favour state run systems, walking and biking.

it is being done under the pretence of safety and the environment (whilst ignoring other major environmental polluters)

expect more speed reductions (look at wales), more roads restrictions to personal transport, increased taxation, road pricing etc.


remember TFL's moto "Every Journey Matters, except car drivers, fk YOU car drivers!"

[ingenieur]

plfrench said:

Energy use?

I've seen limits on some dual carriageways reduced to 50mph on a trial basis to lower emissions. I was thinking more about the single carriage way roads where 60mph NSL is the default. Then one day they come along and pepper it with 50mph repeater signs.

[HasToBeV8]

I guess stopping distance and noise pollution will be factors

[Triumph Man]

A 50 limit really is the ginger stepchild of speed limits

[yellowjack]

I always wonder about the A338 between Salisbury and Ringwood. At one point it's a nice enough two lane single carriageway road, pootling along inside Wiltshire at NSL. Then you arrive at the county border with Hampshire and the limit changes to 50 mph. I've tried to look for features on or adjoining the road that might call for a slightly lower speed limit,but the more I look, the more I'm convinced it's simply an arbitrary decision by one county council and not the other. Along the same road there are various changes in speed limit, but there seems to be no consistency in which limits apply under which conditions. Some villages are 30 mph limits, others, that perhaps, due to multiple side turns, driveways, business access, etc, you'd expect to be 30 mph limits, are actually set at 40 mph.
None of the limits matter much, though. Usually getting to 60 mph on a NSL stretch is wishful thinking anyway. So many drivers seem to stick to 40 to 45 mph through NSL sections, there are few safe sections in which overtaking opportunities might present themselves, and usually the potential opportunities to pass fail to materialise anyway due to oncoming traffic.

[Alex_225]

Dave Hedgehog said:

political goal is for the removal of personal motorised transport in favour state run systems, walking and biking.

it is being done under the pretence of safety and the environment (whilst ignoring other major environmental polluters)

expect more speed reductions (look at wales), more roads restrictions to personal transport, increased taxation, road pricing etc.


remember TFL's moto "Every Journey Matters, except car drivers, fk YOU car drivers!"

For fear of being accuse of being tin foil hat types, I'm inclined to agree.

Over and over we see changes brough in that are detrimental to the use of cars brough in under a thin veil or safety or the environment when ultimately it's to discourage any kind of car use. Even booking a driving test is harder and longer than ever.

I have moved to a very rural area where there are two buses per day and they're school buses, use of a car is essential. A lot of local roads are NS and in great condition so I'd be surprised if these speed limit drops are a cost saving exercise.

Possibly a safety idea or at least that's what we're told. To be honest, making an open country road NS doesn't mean you have to be hitting 60mph the entire time.

[dave123456]

A lot of the roads I use vary between 30, 40, 50 and nsl. I find it harder to keep up with the speed limits in terms of concentration such that I do wonder how much focus is lost to drivers chopping and changing speed.

I grew up in a house on a nsl road and was taught from a very early age to respect the road.

[ingenieur]

dave123456 said:

A lot of the roads I use vary between 30, 40, 50 and nsl. I find it harder to keep up with the speed limits in terms of concentration such that I do wonder how much focus is lost to drivers chopping and changing speed.

I grew up in a house on a nsl road and was taught from a very early age to respect the road.

I did all of my growing up in a few different quiet 30mph streets in suburban London and was given strong and frequent advice on looking out for cars. The same advice I have passed onto my children, even though the limit is 20mph and there are no cars outside our house they have to look anyway.

[ingenieur]

Triumph Man said:

A 50 limit really is the ginger stepchild of speed limits

Quite. Spare a thought for the ginger stepchild.

Hence the thread. It's a weird outlier. Some of the strangeness of a 50mph limit is also with the 40mph limit.

[NFT]

yellowjack said:

I always wonder about the A338 between Salisbury and Ringwood. At one point it's a nice enough two lane single carriageway road, pootling along inside Wiltshire at NSL. Then you arrive at the county border with Hampshire and the limit changes to 50 mph. I've tried to look for features on or adjoining the road that might call for a slightly lower speed limit,but the more I look, the more I'm convinced it's simply an arbitrary decision by one county council and not the other. Along the same road there are various changes in speed limit, but there seems to be no consistency in which limits apply under which conditions. Some villages are 30 mph limits, others, that perhaps, due to multiple side turns, driveways, business access, etc, you'd expect to be 30 mph limits, are actually set at 40 mph.
None of the limits matter much, though. Usually getting to 60 mph on a NSL stretch is wishful thinking anyway. So many drivers seem to stick to 40 to 45 mph through NSL sections, there are few safe sections in which overtaking opportunities might present themselves, and usually the potential opportunities to pass fail to materialise anyway due to oncoming traffic.

I know places like that, even long straight NSL cut to 40 and 30MPH with no apparent logic due to lack of even farmers field entrances before you go through dense urban areas with many junctions, people that reverse out of drives and elderly bungalow areas at 40MPH with speed Van man never seemingly interested in that bit of road like some magical reverse world dream.

[NFT]

Alex_225 said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

political goal is for the removal of personal motorised transport in favour state run systems, walking and biking.

it is being done under the pretence of safety and the environment (whilst ignoring other major environmental polluters)

expect more speed reductions (look at wales), more roads restrictions to personal transport, increased taxation, road pricing etc.


remember TFL's moto "Every Journey Matters, except car drivers, fk YOU car drivers!"

For fear of being accuse of being tin foil hat types, I'm inclined to agree.

Over and over we see changes brough in that are detrimental to the use of cars brough in under a thin veil or safety or the environment when ultimately it's to discourage any kind of car use. Even booking a driving test is harder and longer than ever.

I have moved to a very rural area where there are two buses per day and they're school buses, use of a car is essential. A lot of local roads are NS and in great condition so I'd be surprised if these speed limit drops are a cost saving exercise.

Possibly a safety idea or at least that's what we're told. To be honest, making an open country road NS doesn't mean you have to be hitting 60mph the entire time.

I wonder, if farmers can come together and put road down, allowing 60MPH beside silly limits and cuttings out village centers etc.. How many would pay to use it as things grind to a halt, I probably would.

[Debaser]

It's obvious. Slower is safer, and better for the environment, with zero downsides.

[dave123456]

Debaser said:

It's obvious. Slower is safer, and better for the environment, with zero downsides.

I thought 56mph was the most environmentally friendly speed for the majority of cars currently on the road?

Other than the more environmentally friendly ones being made at great cost to the environment.

[Master Bean]

Hurts less when you hit a tree.

[Debaser]

dave123456 said:

Debaser said:

It's obvious. Slower is safer, and better for the environment, with zero downsides.

I thought 56mph was the most environmentally friendly speed for the majority of cars currently on the road?

Other than the more environmentally friendly ones being made at great cost to the environment.

0mph is the most environmentally friendly speed for all cars.

[MustangGT]

Debaser said:

It's obvious. Slower is safer, and better for the environment, with zero downsides.

Zero downsides? How about the increase in time to do the journey?

Maybe you believe the Welsh Assembly who say that the reduction of speed limit from 30 - 20 mph will only 'one minute' to most journeys. This claim is provably wrong since it only requires one mile at 20 mph for it to take a minute more than at 30 mph. Similarly with the difference between 60 mph and 40 or 50 mph.