Disclosure + Barring Service want my fingerprints

[pneumothorax]

Evening all, will be taking legal advice on this but my first instinct is that this has to be a gee up. I get these done regularly (Doctor) and I got this surprise in my Christmas post.



My second instinct is that I want more information ie what's the nature of the PNC issue and how similar are the other chaps details to mine. I would expect at least to be able to speak to someone about this.

My third instinct is that I am not going to be attending a Police Station to confirm who I am by giving my prints.

ps. I am innocent!

[Alex Z]

What do you propose they should do, other than use fingerprints to confirm whether you are the person they have a similar record for?

[VTC]

FRO would be my response,
you would not be the first person in prison for something you did not do!

speak to a lawyer before doing anything else.

[popeyewhite]

Alex Z said:

What do you propose they should do, other than use fingerprints to confirm whether you are the person they have a similar record for?

If he's after a Criminal Records type check for future employment the employers will check his identity when he applies for work there or renews. If the employer is satisfied the OP is who he says he is the police should be as well - they should get their thumb out.

[Bigends]

From .Gov site

What if you do not want to provide fingerprints?
We will aim to resolve the dispute without the need for fingerprints, but if you do not consent to have your fingerprints taken, we may not be able to resolve your dispute.

How are the fingerprints taken?
If fingerprints are needed to eliminate a record from your details, and you consent to providing fingerprints, the police will contact you to arrange an appointment for you to attend a police station. You may need to produce documentation to validate your identity.

Are the fingerprints used for any other purpose?
Please understand that your fingerprints may also be the subject of speculative searches against all fingerprint records held by the police, and other law enforcement authorities, in connection with or as a result of an investigation into an offence.

At the end of these enquiries, if your fingerprints are not required, they will be destroyed and will not be retained for any other purpose.

[Actual]

So you have the same
Full Name
Date of Birth
Address
as someone else and the only difference will be your fingerprints because they already have their fingerprints?

[pneumothorax]

Alex Z said:

What do you propose they should do, other than use fingerprints to confirm whether you are the person they have a similar record for?

really ? so you would just waltz down to your local nick and roll your fingers around having done nothing wrong, remember, they may make other "speculative checks". If they asked you for your dental records, would that be ok?

I have worked for my employer for 15 years, everyone knows who I am.

I'm really wanting to know how many of my "Identifiers" this 3rd person has that makes it so difficult for them to discern between me and him. More importantly, what they have been doing whilst using them.

wouldn't you?

[Ian Geary]

But what's the alternative?

Have a dbs check = employed as doctor
Don't have a dbs = no longer employed as a doctor


That's one big ditch to die in.

You could perhaps offer to wear an eye patch from now on? That would make it virtually impossible to be mistaken for this nefarious character.

In the unlikely event this ne'er-do-well actually wears an eye patch, you could simply promise to never wear an eye patch in the future.

It's a win-win! (Dbs should really hire me.)



But seriously, I noticed they would delete the prints afterwards, but not before checking if they match any unsolved crimes. I would be content with this, even though I wouldn't particularly like it.


I think it unlikely the OP would be falsely imprisoned for a crime they didn't commit, though I would suggest not washing your hands with soap provided by the police beforehand.


Ian

[popeyewhite]

Actual said:

So you have the same
Full Name
Date of Birth
Address
as someone else and the only difference will be your fingerprints because they already have their fingerprints?

This.

If you have plenty of time before you need the cert then tell the police to crack on without your help. After all someone's paying for the service and it isn't cheap. One of mine took nearly six months, another about three weeks.

[Bigends]

Ian Geary said:

But what's the alternative?

Have a dbs check = employed as doctor
Don't have a dbs = no longer employed as a doctor


That's one big ditch to die in.

You could perhaps offer to wear an eye patch from now on? That would make it virtually impossible to be mistaken for this nefarious character.

In the unlikely event this ne'er-do-well actually wears an eye patch, you could simply promise to never wear an eye patch in the future.

It's a win-win! (Dbs should really hire me.)



But seriously, I noticed they would delete the prints afterwards, but not before checking if they match any unsolved crimes. I would be content with this, even though I wouldn't particularly like it.


I think it unlikely the OP would be falsely imprisoned for a crime they didn't commit, though I would suggest not washing your hands with soap provided by the police beforehand.


Ian

The OP's prints could quite innocently have been lifted from an old crime scene and are just awaiting a set of prints to appear on the system to be matched to - he'd then have some questions to answer.
Police dont need a full set in order to compare to his Doppelganger - one digit from each hand would be enough to disprove any match

[Starfighter]

Worth a subject access request with you name and DOB? If they come back with nothing then that would indicate more of a fishing trip and give you some ammunition to question the need for fingerprints.

[popeyewhite]

There's other ways to check a person's identity other than prints! Passport for instance. How likely is it his doppelganger's applied for the same job?

[pneumothorax]

Actual said:

So you have the same
Full Name
Date of Birth
Address
as someone else and the only difference will be your fingerprints because they already have their fingerprints?

exactly, because either the system is monumentally retarded.....or.....

they think it's me. I can prove my identity, what I am not happy to do on the strength of this missive, is offer up any more information until they tell me or my representative wtf is going on.

[Slow.Patrol]

Last time I went to the US, my fingerprints were taken electronically and are no doubt stored. No fingerprints, no entry, no holiday.

I remember having my prints done decades ago after a break-in at the office. It didn't really bother me.

Today your mobile phone contains a huge amount of information, especially if you have GPS enabled.

Personally I take the view that if I don't do anything wrong, I have nothing to fear. Although it does sound like someone could have stolen your identity. I think I would want that cleared up pretty quickly.

[r3g]

The letter is a bluff. There is no "other person", it's just a way to get your prints on file because they don't have them. Just refuse. Nothing will come of it. You'll then find that the story about the "other person" magically disappears.

As for "your prints will be destroyed" - If anyone is dumb enough to believe that then I've got some river crossings to sell.

[VTC]

Slow.Patrol said:

Personally I take the view that if I don't do anything wrong, I have nothing to fear..

just like this bloke I guess?
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-677833...

[CoolHands]

Change your name and write to them with new name. When cert received for job, change it back.

[pneumothorax]

thanks all, it's just landed on my lap and it's not likely that I am going to get legal input over the festives and also I am busy with punters. This is what it is, a melting pot of minds but in my experience always a helpful place. Thank you.

Ok. here's my first thoughts and since it's Pistonheads I am sure it resonates. I have bought and, more importantly sold a few bikes/cars since my last DBS. Includes Ducati's etc.

My concern would be that one of them has "had an issue" and the system links it to me.

Or (and it's more likely) the system is all over the place and they randomly send these out.

re not working with no DBS, yep, if attending a Police Station and giving prints stops me from seeing my Patients, I am going to be taking legal advice.

Might get a needed holiday.

[r3g]

It's a trap. As others have already noted, there are numerous ways for them to confirm that another person "with similiar identity details" is not you, without requiring you to submit your confidential fingerprints to them. That alone should be ringing alarm bells why they are not exploring any of these options, especially in light of the "we MAY use your prints to run speculative searches for crimes and share them with other agencies" stuff. Just. say. no.

[hidetheelephants]

Have you been knobbling old ladies and unexpectedly benefitting from redrafted wills? The odds of you sharing an address with a miscreant of the same name seem very small unless you're John Smith or something. Weird, I'd not want them speculatively having my fingerprints.