solicitor needed, bit urgent! (wills & probate)

[Kerniki]

We’re in spain, father in laws uk property chain has fallen through so we’ve agreed to lend him the money so he can get into the new property asap (he’s 90 and not to with it)

Its only 100k but we need a declaration of trust drawing up so he can get on with it and we are covered when his old property sells.

Anyone on here fancy undertaking this? We’ve tried umpteen solicitors online and we’re drawing a blank and could do with some help, being abroad for a couple of months isnt helping..

[jeremyc]

Can the solicitors handling his conveyancing not help?

[Kerniki]

No, conflict of interest apparently

[Chrisgr31]

I'd guess they are conflicted.

[Kerniki]

If we gifted it then its easier but for us to be protected it needs to be a loan

[CoreyDog]

Spoke to my wife who works in property law, unfortunately her firm don’t do conveyancing anymore but she can suggest a few firms to you if you like? She says it’s definitely a conveyance solicitor you need and it’s fairly basic.

Taylor Emmet are who she usually refers things like this to.

[Kerniki]

CoreyDog said:

Spoke to my wife who works in property law, unfortunately her firm don’t do conveyancing anymore but she can suggest a few firms to you if you like? She says it’s definitely a conveyance solicitor you need and it’s fairly basic.

Taylor Emmet are who she usually refers things like this to.

Thanks Corey, not tried them, will give them a shout now..

[megaphone]

Why can't you just write out an agreement to loan him the money which you both sign? Are there others involved in the will?

[CoreyDog]

Kerniki said:

Thanks Corey, not tried them, will give them a shout now..

No problems at all, she says if you have no joy with them there are a few other firms she can suggest.

[Kerniki]

megaphone said:

Why can't you just write out an agreement to loan him the money which you both sign? Are there others involved in the will?

Only the two of us, would that even be admissible though? worse case..

We’re all for a simple solution tbh

[megaphone]

Kerniki said:

megaphone said:

Why can't you just write out an agreement to loan him the money which you both sign? Are there others involved in the will?

Only the two of us, would that even be admissible though? worse case..

We’re all for a simple solution tbh

Admissible to whom? Can't see there being an issue, you lend money to dad, he pays you back when he sells his house.

Will his estate be subject to inheritance tax when he finally goes?

Edited by megaphone on Friday 12th January 13:45

[megaphone]

Also,

Do you have a Lasting Power Of Attorney (LPA) in place for your dad? If not get one done for finance and health care ASAP, whilst he can still agree.

Who currently has access to his bank accounts? If he agrees, get his bank accounts in your joint name, set-up online access etc. This will make dealing with his finances a lot easier. I did this with my mum and it was so much easier to deal with bills, gifts, care homes etc in her final years, in fact didn't really need the LPA as I had control over the money.

[K4sper]

Kerniki said:

If we gifted it then its easier but for us to be protected it needs to be a loan

If it needs to be a loan, why do you need a declaration of trust? That is massively more complicated.

You don't need a lawyer to prepare you a simple loan, which is likely to be a couple of pages max.

1. parties' details
2. the lender agrees to lend and the borrower agrees to borrow £100,000 subject to the provisions of this agreement
3. no interest will be payable on any amount borrowed under this agreement
4. the loan will be immediately repayable on the earlier of (a) the lender's first written demand or (b) the death of the borrower
5. this agreement will enure to the benefit of and be binding on the parties and their respective executors and heirs
6. this agreement and any non-contractual obligations arising out of it shall be governed by the laws of [England and Wales]/[Scotland]

Consider signing it as a deed given that it is hard to identify any consideration from your dad

Edited by K4sper on Friday 12th January 14:31

[QuickQuack]

Johnson Astills is our go to legal firm, they have dealt with multiple issues for us (and our friends on our recommendation), including wills, LPAs, conveyancing, and family stuff.

www.johnsonastills.com

I have called them on a Friday afternoon before, and things got sorted incredibly quickly!

[Tyrell Corp]

Can't help you on the loan agreement, but you need to be aware that in the event he is taken into care, all his finances will be out of his control unless a Power of Attorney is previously appointed. Things can happen fast with elderly, like going out for a walk apparently healthy, has a stroke and dead two days later, as with my 84 yr old father.

At 90 years old, signs of mental decline, relatives abroad... you realise on the balance of probabilities, FiL is likely to be in a nursing home or passed away in the near future.

Sorry to be blunt here but you need to be realistic here when financial planning. Not buying into one of these sheltered residences for elderly is he? tread carefully here...

In the event of FiL needing help, care costs with full-time live-in carers, or even part-time several visits a day won't be funded by social services, and with FiL a homeowner and if PoA in place, Social Services will apply themselves and sell his property, any proceeds to fund his care home fees.

Some elderly mentally infirm still in good physical health but their mental decline makes them a danger living alone so can spend several years in care - often with a 'deprivation of liberty' order applied if patient or family disagree.

Depending on his state of mind now, this may be your last chance to get a PoA in place if there isn't one already.

Without this the patient is deemed unable to make their own decisions and the family's views will have little consequence.

[QuickQuack]

Tyrell Corp said:

Can't help you on the loan agreement, but you need to be aware that in the event he is taken into care, all his finances will be out of his control unless a Power of Attorney is previously appointed. Things can happen fast with elderly, like going out for a walk apparently healthy, has a stroke and dead two days later, as with my 84 yr old father.

At 90 years old, signs of mental decline, relatives abroad... you realise on the balance of probabilities, FiL is likely to be in a nursing home or passed away in the near future.

Sorry to be blunt here but you need to be realistic here when financial planning. Not buying into one of these sheltered residences for elderly is he? tread carefully here...

In the event of FiL needing help, care costs with full-time live-in carers, or even part-time several visits a day won't be funded by social services, and with FiL a homeowner and if PoA in place, Social Services will apply themselves and sell his property, any proceeds to fund his care home fees.

Some elderly mentally infirm still in good physical health but their mental decline makes them a danger living alone so can spend several years in care - often with a 'deprivation of liberty' order applied if patient or family disagree.

Depending on his state of mind now, this may be your last chance to get a PoA in place if there isn't one already.

Without this the patient is deemed unable to make their own decisions and the family's views will have little consequence.

Good point. Johnson Astills in my post above also deal with this; in fact Jane Hinds, who's Head of Wills and Probate and whose department handles LPAs, is our primary contact there and she gets the relevant team involved as necessary.

[Kerniki]

K4sper said:

Kerniki said:

If we gifted it then its easier but for us to be protected it needs to be a loan

If it needs to be a loan, why do you need a declaration of trust? That is massively more complicated.

You don't need a lawyer to prepare you a simple loan, which is likely to be a couple of pages max.

1. parties' details
2. the lender agrees to lend and the borrower agrees to borrow £100,000 subject to the provisions of this agreement
3. no interest will be payable on any amount borrowed under this agreement
4. the loan will be immediately repayable on the earlier of (a) the lender's first written demand or (b) the death of the borrower
5. this agreement will enure to the benefit of and be binding on the parties and their respective executors and heirs
6. this agreement and any non-contractual obligations arising out of it shall be governed by the laws of [England and Wales]/[Scotland]

Consider signing it as a deed given that it is hard to identify any consideration from your dad

Edited by K4sper on Friday 12th January 14:31

Thanks casper, also validated by one of the solicitors we contacted from here as a solo solution

Good advice around POA, fortunately we’ve already been through that with the mother in law and going through 6 years of dementia and her subsequent passing, so we were well prepared for this one, it was my wifes brothers turn this time though as he was and is uk resident..

On a side note for POA, it is much harder to arrange this as a foreign resident to your mother or father, allow a lot more time!

Thanks for everyones input, i think we’re good for now.

[arguti]

This is a friend of mine who deals only in probate and mostly contested probate. To sure if this helps



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