Advice on no insurance needed

[asam-x]

So, I have a 1978 classic car that I put in storage November 2022. The road tax is free. I received a letter around the beginning of October 2023 saying it was illegal to keep a car taxed and not insured. The classic car insurance expired in March 2023 and as the car was in storage, I didn't bother to re insure privately so I had it put on work trade policy and on my brothers traders policy. It was showing as insured on AskMid. On this letter was just a signature on the bottom after all the wording. There was no name of any organisation, address, email or contact number. I binned it and the similar one that followed as it just looked like junk. So another one came ,more serious and with proper contact details. Three choices were given, insure it, pay £100 fine or declare it sorn. I rang the DVLA and told them it was insured and that I could send them the screenshot to prove. They said they are informed by the MIB and don't refer to AskMid. So I declared it SORN on the same day. Thinking that was the end of the matter, was a mistake,
As of today, the car is still showing as insured on the AskMid website. Anyway, both, work trade policy and my brothers traders have no record of it on there. Yet, we actually removed it from work policy last Wednesday.
So now, I've a summons to fill out. So how can I prove the car was insured even if it wasn't being used? Thanks

[E-bmw]

asam-x said:

So, I have a 1978 classic car that I put in storage November 2022. The road tax is free. I received a letter around the beginning of October 2023 saying it was illegal to keep a car taxed and not insured. The classic car insurance expired in March 2023 and as the car was in storage, I didn't bother to re insure privately so I had it put on work trade policy and on my brothers traders policy. It was showing as insured on AskMid. On this letter was just a signature on the bottom after all the wording. There was no name of any organisation, address, email or contact number. I binned it and the similar one that followed as it just looked like junk. So another one came ,more serious and with proper contact details. Three choices were given, insure it, pay £100 fine or declare it sorn. I rang the DVLA and told them it was insured and that I could send them the screenshot to prove. They said they are informed by the MIB and don't refer to AskMid. So I declared it SORN on the same day. Thinking that was the end of the matter, was a mistake,
As of today, the car is still showing as insured on the AskMid website. Anyway, both, work trade policy and my brothers traders have no record of it on there. Yet, we actually removed it from work policy last Wednesday.
So now, I've a summons to fill out. So how can I prove the car was insured even if it wasn't being used? Thanks

If I am reading that right it sounds like you can't because it isn't.

The requirement for either SORN or "continuous insurance" has been around for many years now.

[Beethree]

Surely if it was in ‘the trade’ and therefore eligible to be put on a traders policy it won’t have been taxed? (Hence, trade plates)
I don’t think ‘insuring’ it on a trade policy is a valid defence, more like abuse of what a trade insurance policy is!

[fat80b]

asam-x said:

so I had it put on work trade policy and on my brothers traders policy.


As of today, the car is still showing as insured on the AskMid website. Anyway, both, work trade policy and my brothers traders have no record of it on there. Yet, we actually removed it from work policy last Wednesday.

What do you mean by “put it on work trade policy”?

Do you mean you assumed it was covered or do you mean you phoned them up and specifically added the reg.

If the second of these, then surely there is a record of this and you are in the clear?

The ask mid bit is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether it was actually insured or not.

E.g. if you didn’t specifically add it and are relying on the wording of the trade policy, then you really need to go through that very carefully and see proof that it was insured. Eg can it include cars that you own / are registered to you that aren’t otherwise insured (I suspect not)

But if you are relying on something like the “driving other vehicles” bit , then the wording of these often stipulates that the car in question still needs its own policy on it (but again you need to check the small print to make sure).

Post the small print and people will offer opinions on what position you have

Edited by fat80b on Saturday 20th January 08:14

[smokey mow]

Even though the road tax is free you must still declare SORN when it is off the road and not insured.

Did you declare it as SORN? If not then as I’m sure the various letters they sent explained (as I’ve received them in the past too on classics) the car must be insured or they will fine you for no insurance.

[asam-x]

The car was physically added and uploaded onto the traders policy at work. I deliver and collect cars for the showroom. My brother also added it to his policy and sent 5 emails through the app to confirm this but the app doesn't store emails.

[E-bmw]

asam-x said:

The car was physically added and uploaded onto the traders policy at work. I deliver and collect cars for the showroom. My brother also added it to his policy and sent 5 emails through the app to confirm this but the app doesn't store emails.

I get that you seem to have added it to insurance, so if they did it their end there should be proof, whether it is a confirmation email or a certificate update uploaded it should be there and you should have access to that.

[QBee]

E-bmw said:

asam-x said:

The car was physically added and uploaded onto the traders policy at work. I deliver and collect cars for the showroom. My brother also added it to his policy and sent 5 emails through the app to confirm this but the app doesn't store emails.

I get that you seem to have added it to insurance, so if they did it their end there should be proof, whether it is a confirmation email or a certificate update uploaded it should be there and you should have access to that.

Ask the insurers to send confirmation that it was insured

[fat80b]

QBee said:

Ask the insurers to send confirmation that it was insured

That does seem to be answer in this case.

(As an aside, I’d be interested to know if a trader policy usually allows you to add your own cars onto it. I have no idea but it feels like it might be normal to have an exclusion for this.)

Edited by fat80b on Monday 22 January 09:29

[carl_w]

asam-x said:

The car was physically added and uploaded onto the traders policy at work. I deliver and collect cars for the showroom. My brother also added it to his policy and sent 5 emails through the app to confirm this but the app doesn't store emails.

MIB usually contacts you if it finds a vehicle is insured on two policies.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

carl_w said:

MIB usually contacts you if it finds a vehicle is insured on two policies.

Do they? There are tens of thousands of people with vehicles covered on two policies, for perfectly valid reasons. They can't be contacting them all, it would be a massive waste of time.

[Rufus Stone]

Do traders not need an insurable interest in a vehicle to insure it on their traders policy?

[CanAm]

Rufus Stone said:

Do traders not need an insurable interest in a vehicle to insure it on their traders policy?

It's been a very long time since I've dealt with motor traders insurance, but I don't think we would have covered a trader's brother's private car.

[ingenieur]

CanAm said:

Rufus Stone said:

Do traders not need an insurable interest in a vehicle to insure it on their traders policy?

It's been a very long time since I've dealt with motor traders insurance, but I don't think we would have covered a trader's brother's private car.

If he is named as a driver on the policy then he can insure his own cars on the policy similar to the policy holder. There will be various Ts and Cs which will differ from one policy to another but broadly speaking it should be possible to do what has been done here without going against the rules of most policies.

I wouldn't be afraid of going to court for this. If you're going to court you don't have to argue the toss with the DVLA as it'll be sorted out by the magistrate. It is one of those ones where you'd have to turn up and argue your case as if you didn't they would find against you by default.

If you wanted to say something to the DVLA to try to avoid going to court you could keep it simple and say you've done nothing wrong and this will be figured out in the court room but you would prefer for the matter not to go this far.

So your options are:

1. Pay the fine
2. Go to court
3. Come up with an effective argument which the DVLA accept meaning you don't have to do either 1 or 2.

You require evidence for 2 or 3. 3. may require legal advice which you may have to pay for and then option 1 makes more sense.

[Supert Stu]

I do a reasonable amount of traders insurance as a broker.

Policies i'm aware of cover motor vehicles owned by the policy holder/ spouse/ company director/ limited company- that are declared to the insurers and noted on the MID and then customers vehicles for motor trade purposes

Common misconception imho - ' i drive anything, i've got a traders policy'

[carl_w]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Do they? There are tens of thousands of people with vehicles covered on two policies, for perfectly valid reasons. They can't be contacting them all, it would be a massive waste of time.

Maybe it's if a single person has more than one policy. I took out a new policy without reallizing the old one auto-renewed and I got a letter from MIB.

[asam-x]

Supert Stu said:

I do a reasonable amount of traders insurance as a broker.

Policies i'm aware of cover motor vehicles owned by the policy holder/ spouse/ company director/ limited company- that are declared to the insurers and noted on the MID and then customers vehicles for motor trade purposes

Common misconception imho - ' i drive anything, i've got a traders policy'

I am on SDP on work policy from tomorrow. It was on my brothers policy as he had to move the car from his place to my neighbours garage for me. Fir whatever reason, his insurance company cannot find the car on his policy, yet the car is still showing as insured on ask mid. Even on my work policy, even though it was uploaded, there is no record if it. It's weird, the car must be jinxed.

[asam-x]

ingenieur said:

If he is named as a driver on the policy then he can insure his own cars on the policy similar to the policy holder. There will be various Ts and Cs which will differ from one policy to another but broadly speaking it should be possible to do what has been done here without going against the rules of most policies.

I wouldn't be afraid of going to court for this. If you're going to court you don't have to argue the toss with the DVLA as it'll be sorted out by the magistrate. It is one of those ones where you'd have to turn up and argue your case as if you didn't they would find against you by default.

If you wanted to say something to the DVLA to try to avoid going to court you could keep it simple and say you've done nothing wrong and this will be figured out in the court room but you would prefer for the matter not to go this far.

So your options are:

1. Pay the fine
2. Go to court
3. Come up with an effective argument which the DVLA accept meaning you don't have to do either 1 or 2.

You require evidence for 2 or 3. 3. may require legal advice which you may have to pay for and then option 1 makes more sense.

The DVLA have today told me it's in the hands of the court and they can't do anything further.

[105.4]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, as I have only read the first half a page, but wouldn’t the solution to your problem to have the vehicle insured under a ‘zero mileage’ policy, which cost absolute peanuts, (the last time I had one, it was under £100 pa).

[asam-x]

I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for that.