Can bank freeze/cease money without a court order?
Discussion
Not quite sure how to title this scenario, but trying understand the position and how I can get my money ‘freed’ asap.
It’s my small business bank account for my limited company we’re talking about in case it makes a difference to personal banking.
Yesterday was payday, and towards the end of the day a couple of the staff let me know they’d not been paid.
Payroll is set up as a multiple payment (online where you can set up many payees in one transaction). The time the bank actually makes the payment varies through the day on the payment date.
It’s getting on for 5pm and still no payment and nothing showing on my account so I call the bank. After the usual half an hour wait I’m told there was an issue with the multiple payments that day and I should raise the payments again. I end the call and try again to make individual payments to the staff so they can still get their money on the day (as it’s now past 5pm), but the first payment get to the final screen and fails - saying words to the affect that the account is block.
I call back the bank, red branded Spanish one, and this person tells me - oh yes, I can see your account has been suspended due to know your customer information being outstanding. I ask to speak to someone that can unblock my account and the person says, sorry that team only work to 5pm, please call back Monday.
I say this is unacceptable, especially as I had called earlier and not told this info, and I want the matter escalated for resolution immediately but the call handler refused. He said they’ve been told explicitly not to escalate such matters, all I could do was raise a complaint. I badgered the call handler, who did then ask his manager to speak to be but he told me his manager refused!
Anyway, he raised a complaint on my behalf and told me that we had been contacted about the matter on the 11th Jan.
No one had contacted me, so I spoke to my business partner. He has recently had a serious illness and is recovering. He said he did get a call a couple of weeks back out of the blue, with someone claiming from said bank wanting information but demanding he given them information to pass their security checks before going into details. Obviously such calls are a red flag, so after back and forth (and them threatening to suspend our account), he asked them to put their request in writing…because it basically seemed like a scam call to him. No request in writing was received, so he didn’t take further action believing it to be fake. He said the things they were asking for, accounts, details of directors, etc is all available on companies house.
Based on what happen yesterday I asked him to check his email again, and in his spam folder there is an email from the bank saying:
“Dear Mr x
Please use this [valid link to bank address] to upload requested documents quoting ref xxx.”
There is some bank standard branding and generic t&c, but the sum total of the useful information is above. No explanation of the reason for request, not what info is required, nor any timelines.
I’m a bit annoyed my biz partner did flag this with me, as I would have called the bank to verify / sort, but I am very angry that the bank can just freeze my account and cancel pre-arranged payments on the basis of one random call and one almost useless email! I am even more angry about their responses, basically to fob me off until a point where nothing can be done until next week.
In the interim I’ve paid my staff out from a different bank so no one has gone without.
Anyway, that’s the massive back story here (sorry if it’s a bit ranty).
My questions are, where do I stand here?
Can the bank simply lock the account without any ‘reasonable’ notification that it’s happening?
What rights to I have to access my funds?
Due to the treatment we’ve had, I am inclined to just close the account and transfer to my other business bank but I need them to unfreeze the account first.
It’s my small business bank account for my limited company we’re talking about in case it makes a difference to personal banking.
Yesterday was payday, and towards the end of the day a couple of the staff let me know they’d not been paid.
Payroll is set up as a multiple payment (online where you can set up many payees in one transaction). The time the bank actually makes the payment varies through the day on the payment date.
It’s getting on for 5pm and still no payment and nothing showing on my account so I call the bank. After the usual half an hour wait I’m told there was an issue with the multiple payments that day and I should raise the payments again. I end the call and try again to make individual payments to the staff so they can still get their money on the day (as it’s now past 5pm), but the first payment get to the final screen and fails - saying words to the affect that the account is block.
I call back the bank, red branded Spanish one, and this person tells me - oh yes, I can see your account has been suspended due to know your customer information being outstanding. I ask to speak to someone that can unblock my account and the person says, sorry that team only work to 5pm, please call back Monday.
I say this is unacceptable, especially as I had called earlier and not told this info, and I want the matter escalated for resolution immediately but the call handler refused. He said they’ve been told explicitly not to escalate such matters, all I could do was raise a complaint. I badgered the call handler, who did then ask his manager to speak to be but he told me his manager refused!
Anyway, he raised a complaint on my behalf and told me that we had been contacted about the matter on the 11th Jan.
No one had contacted me, so I spoke to my business partner. He has recently had a serious illness and is recovering. He said he did get a call a couple of weeks back out of the blue, with someone claiming from said bank wanting information but demanding he given them information to pass their security checks before going into details. Obviously such calls are a red flag, so after back and forth (and them threatening to suspend our account), he asked them to put their request in writing…because it basically seemed like a scam call to him. No request in writing was received, so he didn’t take further action believing it to be fake. He said the things they were asking for, accounts, details of directors, etc is all available on companies house.
Based on what happen yesterday I asked him to check his email again, and in his spam folder there is an email from the bank saying:
“Dear Mr x
Please use this [valid link to bank address] to upload requested documents quoting ref xxx.”
There is some bank standard branding and generic t&c, but the sum total of the useful information is above. No explanation of the reason for request, not what info is required, nor any timelines.
I’m a bit annoyed my biz partner did flag this with me, as I would have called the bank to verify / sort, but I am very angry that the bank can just freeze my account and cancel pre-arranged payments on the basis of one random call and one almost useless email! I am even more angry about their responses, basically to fob me off until a point where nothing can be done until next week.
In the interim I’ve paid my staff out from a different bank so no one has gone without.
Anyway, that’s the massive back story here (sorry if it’s a bit ranty).
My questions are, where do I stand here?
Can the bank simply lock the account without any ‘reasonable’ notification that it’s happening?
What rights to I have to access my funds?
Due to the treatment we’ve had, I am inclined to just close the account and transfer to my other business bank but I need them to unfreeze the account first.
Ps - I know I can provide the documentation they’ve asked for, but there’s no timeline for them reviewing and verifying the info once provided.
Basically what they’ve asked for seems to be all the same information we gave to our ‘account manager’ in person when we opened the account 5 years ago, plus the details of our investor who’s another shareholder.
I understand KYC/AML requirements etc, but given our tenure as a customer and that nothing has materially changed with our business, it seems like an extreme course of action for the bank to take in such a short period of time with bugger all notice (in my view).
We’re a small IT co with a few hundred k in turnover each year, so I’m not sure what flags might have been raised for them to take this action!
Basically what they’ve asked for seems to be all the same information we gave to our ‘account manager’ in person when we opened the account 5 years ago, plus the details of our investor who’s another shareholder.
I understand KYC/AML requirements etc, but given our tenure as a customer and that nothing has materially changed with our business, it seems like an extreme course of action for the bank to take in such a short period of time with bugger all notice (in my view).
We’re a small IT co with a few hundred k in turnover each year, so I’m not sure what flags might have been raised for them to take this action!
porterpainter said:
Not quite sure how to title this scenario, but trying understand the position and how I can get my money ‘freed’ asap.
It’s my small business bank account for my limited company we’re talking about in case it makes a difference to personal banking.
Yesterday was payday, and towards the end of the day a couple of the staff let me know they’d not been paid.
Payroll is set up as a multiple payment (online where you can set up many payees in one transaction). The time the bank actually makes the payment varies through the day on the payment date.
It’s getting on for 5pm and still no payment and nothing showing on my account so I call the bank. After the usual half an hour wait I’m told there was an issue with the multiple payments that day and I should raise the payments again. I end the call and try again to make individual payments to the staff so they can still get their money on the day (as it’s now past 5pm), but the first payment get to the final screen and fails - saying words to the affect that the account is block.
I call back the bank, red branded Spanish one, and this person tells me - oh yes, I can see your account has been suspended due to know your customer information being outstanding. I ask to speak to someone that can unblock my account and the person says, sorry that team only work to 5pm, please call back Monday.
I say this is unacceptable, especially as I had called earlier and not told this info, and I want the matter escalated for resolution immediately but the call handler refused. He said they’ve been told explicitly not to escalate such matters, all I could do was raise a complaint. I badgered the call handler, who did then ask his manager to speak to be but he told me his manager refused!
Anyway, he raised a complaint on my behalf and told me that we had been contacted about the matter on the 11th Jan.
No one had contacted me, so I spoke to my business partner. He has recently had a serious illness and is recovering. He said he did get a call a couple of weeks back out of the blue, with someone claiming from said bank wanting information but demanding he given them information to pass their security checks before going into details. Obviously such calls are a red flag, so after back and forth (and them threatening to suspend our account), he asked them to put their request in writing…because it basically seemed like a scam call to him. No request in writing was received, so he didn’t take further action believing it to be fake. He said the things they were asking for, accounts, details of directors, etc is all available on companies house.
Based on what happen yesterday I asked him to check his email again, and in his spam folder there is an email from the bank saying:
“Dear Mr x
Please use this [valid link to bank address] to upload requested documents quoting ref xxx.”
There is some bank standard branding and generic t&c, but the sum total of the useful information is above. No explanation of the reason for request, not what info is required, nor any timelines.
I’m a bit annoyed my biz partner did flag this with me, as I would have called the bank to verify / sort, but I am very angry that the bank can just freeze my account and cancel pre-arranged payments on the basis of one random call and one almost useless email! I am even more angry about their responses, basically to fob me off until a point where nothing can be done until next week.
In the interim I’ve paid my staff out from a different bank so no one has gone without.
Anyway, that’s the massive back story here (sorry if it’s a bit ranty).
My questions are, where do I stand here?
Can the bank simply lock the account without any ‘reasonable’ notification that it’s happening?
What rights to I have to access my funds?
Due to the treatment we’ve had, I am inclined to just close the account and transfer to my other business bank but I need them to unfreeze the account first.
Fundamentally, as KYC is key element of Anti-Money Laundering controls, there are rules about not "tipping off" where there is potntially suspicious activity.It’s my small business bank account for my limited company we’re talking about in case it makes a difference to personal banking.
Yesterday was payday, and towards the end of the day a couple of the staff let me know they’d not been paid.
Payroll is set up as a multiple payment (online where you can set up many payees in one transaction). The time the bank actually makes the payment varies through the day on the payment date.
It’s getting on for 5pm and still no payment and nothing showing on my account so I call the bank. After the usual half an hour wait I’m told there was an issue with the multiple payments that day and I should raise the payments again. I end the call and try again to make individual payments to the staff so they can still get their money on the day (as it’s now past 5pm), but the first payment get to the final screen and fails - saying words to the affect that the account is block.
I call back the bank, red branded Spanish one, and this person tells me - oh yes, I can see your account has been suspended due to know your customer information being outstanding. I ask to speak to someone that can unblock my account and the person says, sorry that team only work to 5pm, please call back Monday.
I say this is unacceptable, especially as I had called earlier and not told this info, and I want the matter escalated for resolution immediately but the call handler refused. He said they’ve been told explicitly not to escalate such matters, all I could do was raise a complaint. I badgered the call handler, who did then ask his manager to speak to be but he told me his manager refused!
Anyway, he raised a complaint on my behalf and told me that we had been contacted about the matter on the 11th Jan.
No one had contacted me, so I spoke to my business partner. He has recently had a serious illness and is recovering. He said he did get a call a couple of weeks back out of the blue, with someone claiming from said bank wanting information but demanding he given them information to pass their security checks before going into details. Obviously such calls are a red flag, so after back and forth (and them threatening to suspend our account), he asked them to put their request in writing…because it basically seemed like a scam call to him. No request in writing was received, so he didn’t take further action believing it to be fake. He said the things they were asking for, accounts, details of directors, etc is all available on companies house.
Based on what happen yesterday I asked him to check his email again, and in his spam folder there is an email from the bank saying:
“Dear Mr x
Please use this [valid link to bank address] to upload requested documents quoting ref xxx.”
There is some bank standard branding and generic t&c, but the sum total of the useful information is above. No explanation of the reason for request, not what info is required, nor any timelines.
I’m a bit annoyed my biz partner did flag this with me, as I would have called the bank to verify / sort, but I am very angry that the bank can just freeze my account and cancel pre-arranged payments on the basis of one random call and one almost useless email! I am even more angry about their responses, basically to fob me off until a point where nothing can be done until next week.
In the interim I’ve paid my staff out from a different bank so no one has gone without.
Anyway, that’s the massive back story here (sorry if it’s a bit ranty).
My questions are, where do I stand here?
Can the bank simply lock the account without any ‘reasonable’ notification that it’s happening?
What rights to I have to access my funds?
Due to the treatment we’ve had, I am inclined to just close the account and transfer to my other business bank but I need them to unfreeze the account first.
This sounds like a cack handed example of communicating admin / clearical requirements here. Bloody annoying.
As to where you stand, they won't budge without the paperwork. One they have it, you'll just have to become a PITA - regular calls, branch visit to get them calling, CEO email, email to MP as it's election year etc..etc...
Frustrating, but they probably need to refresh their KYC on your biz, especially if it has been five years since they last did the checks. Gut feeling is that they were well within the T&Cs etc to suspend the account pending receipt of the info.
No excuse for the poor communications though and the hair trigger blocking of the account. Definite feeling that they should try harder than one suspicious phone call and then a short email. Race to the bottom with customer services unfortunately
No excuse for the poor communications though and the hair trigger blocking of the account. Definite feeling that they should try harder than one suspicious phone call and then a short email. Race to the bottom with customer services unfortunately
Thanks for the input guys. Sod’s Law these things always happen on a Friday so can’t get sorted.
Still not clear to me if they can just keep the money frozen if my account is suspended. There’s all sorts of regular payments that come out of the account. Its not small change we’re talking about here, it’s all the money in the current account for the business.
Still not clear to me if they can just keep the money frozen if my account is suspended. There’s all sorts of regular payments that come out of the account. Its not small change we’re talking about here, it’s all the money in the current account for the business.
There's a thread in the Business Forum about KYC:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
In addition to our problems with KYC, I've been helping my Uncle with Worldpay and their threats to freeze his account. One of the questions is: Do you have a business website? If so please list the domain name. If you do not have a website please put N/A. So we put N/A and uploaded the form. A month or two later, we get told our application was rejected, please fill in the form again. So we do. After a second rejection we call up to be told that we haven't put in his business website address. I state that he doesn't have one, put N/A as advised on the form. The advisor says that we must have a website! Really?! In the end we are told to take a photo of the interior and exterior of the business. The whole KYC is a mess.The best bit is that my Uncle is retiring on 31st Jan, and won't bother replying to them.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
In addition to our problems with KYC, I've been helping my Uncle with Worldpay and their threats to freeze his account. One of the questions is: Do you have a business website? If so please list the domain name. If you do not have a website please put N/A. So we put N/A and uploaded the form. A month or two later, we get told our application was rejected, please fill in the form again. So we do. After a second rejection we call up to be told that we haven't put in his business website address. I state that he doesn't have one, put N/A as advised on the form. The advisor says that we must have a website! Really?! In the end we are told to take a photo of the interior and exterior of the business. The whole KYC is a mess.The best bit is that my Uncle is retiring on 31st Jan, and won't bother replying to them.
You're far from alone with this I've seen many similar businesses post before
I also had my personal account frozen after a ridiculous fraud claim that had no merit
Bank account frozen and they didn't even notify me I found out 48 hrs later and you can't talk to the fraud team directly !
You couldn't make it up took a further 3 days for them to get their finger out
Luckily I have other accounts too
I complained and got £100 compensation - woohoo
I moved bank but they all seem to be similar
I also had my personal account frozen after a ridiculous fraud claim that had no merit
Bank account frozen and they didn't even notify me I found out 48 hrs later and you can't talk to the fraud team directly !
You couldn't make it up took a further 3 days for them to get their finger out
Luckily I have other accounts too
I complained and got £100 compensation - woohoo
I moved bank but they all seem to be similar
I’ve had this before with my business account, they basically called out the blue then asked for security question answers to access the account which I wasn’t giving!
They asked me to go to their website, get the customer service number, call that and explain. Obviously as it was me initiating the call and I’d called direct from their own website I was more comfortable. Connected me back to the department and it was all sorted over the phone in less than 20 minutes, didn’t need to send any documentation but they asked ALOT of questions. That wasn’t the Spanish bank though, this was NatWest, not heard anything now in about 3 years but assume I’ll be due a call again at some point and I’ll just do exactly the same.
They asked me to go to their website, get the customer service number, call that and explain. Obviously as it was me initiating the call and I’d called direct from their own website I was more comfortable. Connected me back to the department and it was all sorted over the phone in less than 20 minutes, didn’t need to send any documentation but they asked ALOT of questions. That wasn’t the Spanish bank though, this was NatWest, not heard anything now in about 3 years but assume I’ll be due a call again at some point and I’ll just do exactly the same.
Chrisgr31 said:
I believe it has happened to lots of those with business accounts in fairly similar circumstances.
Odd really we are told not to give details to cold callers and then the banks are surprised when people won’t give them details!
"You called me, you should be authenticating yourselves!"Odd really we are told not to give details to cold callers and then the banks are surprised when people won’t give them details!
I had similar with HSBC. They threatened to close my business account if I didn’t provide certain information so I complied and got them to confirm that everything was in order and my account was safe.
Sure enough a month later the account was closed without any other warnings. It was their error but there was no way of reopening it apparently, computer says no. If I would like to talk to a business advisor about opening a new one they could make me an appointment for the following month
.
It’s pretty disappointing to get such crap service when I had run my personal and business accounts, mortgage and bridging loads through them for over 25 years but I think the harsh truth is they are not making enough money out of a lot of small business accounts to make them care whether I am a customer or not.
Sure enough a month later the account was closed without any other warnings. It was their error but there was no way of reopening it apparently, computer says no. If I would like to talk to a business advisor about opening a new one they could make me an appointment for the following month
.It’s pretty disappointing to get such crap service when I had run my personal and business accounts, mortgage and bridging loads through them for over 25 years but I think the harsh truth is they are not making enough money out of a lot of small business accounts to make them care whether I am a customer or not.
A friend of mine had a similar issue with the same Spanish bank. Payroll day for his employees and they froze his account without warning, due to a payment he made which the bank suggested was fraudulent, which it wasn't. He went to his local branch around 3pm and did not leave until they sorted the problem, things got very heated! I cannot imagine the fallout of not being able to pay employees and your account being frozen. It seems this bank is quite notorious for this type of behaviour. Good luck OP!
G
G
handpaper said:
Chrisgr31 said:
Odd really we are told not to give details to cold callers and then the banks are surprised when people won’t give them details!
"You called me, you should be authenticating yourselves!"I recently had my card cloned from an online purchase
The "fraud department" then called me on the withheld number and asked for my security details. I said you must be joking - I asked them to prove who they were ie to send me a message through the app.
They couldn't and the most unhelpful - acting like I was the first person to question them
CoreyDog said:
I’ve had this before with my business account, they basically called out the blue then asked for security question answers to access the account which I wasn’t giving!
They asked me to go to their website, get the customer service number, call that and explain. Obviously as it was me initiating the call and I’d called direct from their own website I was more comfortable. Connected me back to the department and it was all sorted over the phone in less than 20 minutes, didn’t need to send any documentation but they asked ALOT of questions. That wasn’t the Spanish bank though, this was NatWest, not heard anything now in about 3 years but assume I’ll be due a call again at some point and I’ll just do exactly the same.
I would expect that ^^ is how this typically works out. Hopefully the call to the bank today sorts out the tapering of KYC info just as quickly.They asked me to go to their website, get the customer service number, call that and explain. Obviously as it was me initiating the call and I’d called direct from their own website I was more comfortable. Connected me back to the department and it was all sorted over the phone in less than 20 minutes, didn’t need to send any documentation but they asked ALOT of questions. That wasn’t the Spanish bank though, this was NatWest, not heard anything now in about 3 years but assume I’ll be due a call again at some point and I’ll just do exactly the same.
Edited by Hol on Monday 29th January 10:42
Just off the phone with them after an hour or so of dancing around.
The bank claim to have sent letters to both the directors (me and biz partner) along with text messages. I certainly have got none, and my biz partner says the same.
There are also no documents in the communication library of the online bank account, where all other letters / statements/ etc have a digital copy.
The person on the phone couldn’t explain that.
They have now unblocked the account and given us two extra weeks to provide the information.
Not really any recognition or serious apology for the situation, so I will be banking elsewhere in the future.
The bank claim to have sent letters to both the directors (me and biz partner) along with text messages. I certainly have got none, and my biz partner says the same.
There are also no documents in the communication library of the online bank account, where all other letters / statements/ etc have a digital copy.
The person on the phone couldn’t explain that.
They have now unblocked the account and given us two extra weeks to provide the information.
Not really any recognition or serious apology for the situation, so I will be banking elsewhere in the future.
I had someting similar.
Scottish bank that is not near the clyde or is royalist.
Recieved a letter saying fill in all this irrelavant information on their website, which I duly did, and yet they cancelled my business account and upon raising a complaint they investigated their actions and suprise suprise it was all legitimate.
So where is my money?
Er, we don't know..... because your account has been closed. Speak to our complaints department and we will investigate and we will find it was all legitimate, rinse and repeat!
Legalised robbery!!
Scottish bank that is not near the clyde or is royalist.
Recieved a letter saying fill in all this irrelavant information on their website, which I duly did, and yet they cancelled my business account and upon raising a complaint they investigated their actions and suprise suprise it was all legitimate.
So where is my money?
Er, we don't know..... because your account has been closed. Speak to our complaints department and we will investigate and we will find it was all legitimate, rinse and repeat!
Legalised robbery!!
Generally speaking perhaps the legislation should dictate that banks may not suspend customer accounts without providing some mechanism to have the suspension quickly removed. The fact they did this so close to pay day and then could not undo it due to call centre operating hours is a violation of your liberty.
I imagine if they are trying to prove a physical existence of their customer they would not upload the documents to the online message centre as that would undermine the logic. i.e. they want to 'confirm' your identity so putting the documents into the online portal you always use defeats the object.
I think it's bang out of order... just saying what I think is going on.
porterpainter said:
Just off the phone with them after an hour or so of dancing around.
The bank claim to have sent letters to both the directors (me and biz partner) along with text messages. I certainly have got none, and my biz partner says the same.
There are also no documents in the communication library of the online bank account, where all other letters / statements/ etc have a digital copy.
The person on the phone couldn’t explain that.
They have now unblocked the account and given us two extra weeks to provide the information.
Not really any recognition or serious apology for the situation, so I will be banking elsewhere in the future.
The problem with all of the things you're saying here is that you're demonstrating clearly that the bank does not know its customer as they had been unable to reach you! The bank claim to have sent letters to both the directors (me and biz partner) along with text messages. I certainly have got none, and my biz partner says the same.
There are also no documents in the communication library of the online bank account, where all other letters / statements/ etc have a digital copy.
The person on the phone couldn’t explain that.
They have now unblocked the account and given us two extra weeks to provide the information.
Not really any recognition or serious apology for the situation, so I will be banking elsewhere in the future.
I imagine if they are trying to prove a physical existence of their customer they would not upload the documents to the online message centre as that would undermine the logic. i.e. they want to 'confirm' your identity so putting the documents into the online portal you always use defeats the object.
I think it's bang out of order... just saying what I think is going on.
Edited by ingenieur on Tuesday 30th January 09:11
KTMsm said:
handpaper said:
Chrisgr31 said:
Odd really we are told not to give details to cold callers and then the banks are surprised when people won’t give them details!
"You called me, you should be authenticating yourselves!"I recently had my card cloned from an online purchase
The "fraud department" then called me on the withheld number and asked for my security details. I said you must be joking - I asked them to prove who they were ie to send me a message through the app.
They couldn't and the most unhelpful - acting like I was the first person to question them
I do so, and am told it us too late, transaction has been blocked and I will need to start again.
They just don't seem capable of understanding that is the caller who needs to prove their identity, nit the call recipient .
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