Children's Gymnastic Club, verbal threat to a child/parent
Discussion
There is a bit of a backstory (obviously), but...
My daughter is the head coach on maternity leave.
At some point a parent raises concerns about the "coaching style" of one of the other coaches.
The coach refuses to meet parent (and the child welfare officer) to discuss concerns.
The committee look into the concerns and decide no action needed (this was accepted by the parent).
The coach then refuses to coach the child in question.
Remaining coaches close ranks and also refuse to coach the child and ask that the child is expelled from the club.
My daughter confers with the national body and also the club committee.
They decide there is no good reason to expel the child from the club or for the coaches to refuse to include the child in their sessions.
This is relayed back in person by the club chairman, child welfare officer and head coach to the two coaches who were not directly involved (they still need to meet with the other coach). One of the coaches accepts the decision, but the other (who has a daytime job with children) says she is terrified to include this child in her sessions and threatens to quit.
My daughter says, well ok, that is the situation, we have made the decision, so go away and think it through whether to hand in your notice.
OK that is some of the back-story, but the main event is this:
Next, the spouse of this coach comes into the gym hall, aggressively shouting, f-ing and blinding at my daughter, but also directly threatening the child and the mother that they need to watch their backs because he will "get them".
All this commotion was in the presence of other children and parents.
My daughter was too scared to walk out through the car park (this guy sits in his car out there) and was escorted out by the child welfare officer.
OK, to my question. Is there any way/enough of a reason for the gym club to apply for some kind of order to prevent this individual from visiting or sitting on the premises? i.e. either entering the training hall, or the private car park while the gym club is there?
If so, who would they contact in the first instance. I don't have a lot of confidence in the police, I don't think they will be interested. Are they the only option here? Has a legal threshold been crossed whereby the police should at least give advice to the club or inquire into the behaviour of this person?
My daughter is the head coach on maternity leave.
At some point a parent raises concerns about the "coaching style" of one of the other coaches.
The coach refuses to meet parent (and the child welfare officer) to discuss concerns.
The committee look into the concerns and decide no action needed (this was accepted by the parent).
The coach then refuses to coach the child in question.
Remaining coaches close ranks and also refuse to coach the child and ask that the child is expelled from the club.
My daughter confers with the national body and also the club committee.
They decide there is no good reason to expel the child from the club or for the coaches to refuse to include the child in their sessions.
This is relayed back in person by the club chairman, child welfare officer and head coach to the two coaches who were not directly involved (they still need to meet with the other coach). One of the coaches accepts the decision, but the other (who has a daytime job with children) says she is terrified to include this child in her sessions and threatens to quit.
My daughter says, well ok, that is the situation, we have made the decision, so go away and think it through whether to hand in your notice.
OK that is some of the back-story, but the main event is this:
Next, the spouse of this coach comes into the gym hall, aggressively shouting, f-ing and blinding at my daughter, but also directly threatening the child and the mother that they need to watch their backs because he will "get them".
All this commotion was in the presence of other children and parents.
My daughter was too scared to walk out through the car park (this guy sits in his car out there) and was escorted out by the child welfare officer.
OK, to my question. Is there any way/enough of a reason for the gym club to apply for some kind of order to prevent this individual from visiting or sitting on the premises? i.e. either entering the training hall, or the private car park while the gym club is there?
If so, who would they contact in the first instance. I don't have a lot of confidence in the police, I don't think they will be interested. Are they the only option here? Has a legal threshold been crossed whereby the police should at least give advice to the club or inquire into the behaviour of this person?
Edited by courty on Thursday 22 February 13:08
I can't help much but I will say that you should 100% log it with the police and get a crime reference number. They won't be interested most likely but they will have a record of it anything happens again. Threat to life or wellbeing is pretty serious.
Would the decision to expel the child now be considered due to the fathers actions? Surely you can't have someone so volatile and potentially violent coming near children. Disgraceful behaviour by the father.
It sounds like it's in everyone's interest for the child to be taught elsewhere anyway. If the parents have concerns, now he's furious and there is a clear uneasiness between the school/coach and the student and family then surely they should part ways?
Would the decision to expel the child now be considered due to the fathers actions? Surely you can't have someone so volatile and potentially violent coming near children. Disgraceful behaviour by the father.
It sounds like it's in everyone's interest for the child to be taught elsewhere anyway. If the parents have concerns, now he's furious and there is a clear uneasiness between the school/coach and the student and family then surely they should part ways?
Report the incident involving coach's husband to the police. Some sort of police action should follow, particularly if he's made threats about a child (although I wouldn't hold my breath...).
Civil proceedings for an injunction restraining him from approach her or entering the premises are going to be hellish expensive and if it's just a one-off incident I doubt it would succeed anyway. Log all contact and ensure statements are obtained from witnesses.
Might be best to just write to him to say that he is not welcome at the club and must not approach your staff (other than his wife obvs).
If the coaches are employees your daughter needs to ensure she is taking proper HR advice as "go away and think it through whether to hand in your notice" is just asking for a constructive unfair dismissal claim if the coach in question has over 2 years' service.
Civil proceedings for an injunction restraining him from approach her or entering the premises are going to be hellish expensive and if it's just a one-off incident I doubt it would succeed anyway. Log all contact and ensure statements are obtained from witnesses.
Might be best to just write to him to say that he is not welcome at the club and must not approach your staff (other than his wife obvs).
If the coaches are employees your daughter needs to ensure she is taking proper HR advice as "go away and think it through whether to hand in your notice" is just asking for a constructive unfair dismissal claim if the coach in question has over 2 years' service.
I ran this past Vikingette1 who is a coach at a gym whilst she is at University.
Firstly Police for the aggression and threats.
Secondly the owners/directors/committee and Safeguarding Officer should write a letter to the Coach and her husband banning him from the premises. In the meantime they should collate witness statements. If necessary they should seek an injunction in the medium term.
There are two other sides to the story:
- gym parents can be a f
king nightmare if they think they have a grievance or if they think sometime is unfair and they can go complete Karen - I've witnessed this many times when picking The Vikingettes up from gym.
- the coach who is refusing to teach the girl really isn't helping herself by refusing to meet the parents or coach the girl. Seems she isn't open to any discussion.
Firstly Police for the aggression and threats.
Secondly the owners/directors/committee and Safeguarding Officer should write a letter to the Coach and her husband banning him from the premises. In the meantime they should collate witness statements. If necessary they should seek an injunction in the medium term.
There are two other sides to the story:
- gym parents can be a f
king nightmare if they think they have a grievance or if they think sometime is unfair and they can go complete Karen - I've witnessed this many times when picking The Vikingettes up from gym.- the coach who is refusing to teach the girl really isn't helping herself by refusing to meet the parents or coach the girl. Seems she isn't open to any discussion.
Just to maybe give a few devils advocate view....
Police for the threatening behaviour (so you have a record and that if it happens again they know it is repeat behaviour).
Contracts for what the coaches can and cannot do. What does their contract say about who they can and cannot teach, what rights are given to them. I read that the club got together and decided that the coaches have to coach the child, but really if the coach has a contract that allows them to not coach a particular child under certain conditions it really isnt up to the club to make that decision, and subsequently the club cannot force a coach to leave.
What also isn't clear (and what someone raised above) is why the coach refused to coach the child? To be honest I could totally understand if a child has levelled a load of allegations at them, then the club decides nothing is amiss, that coach is then seriously concerned that it could happen again, if it happens again it could affect their day job also - I can understand this standpoint but again we know nothing of the actual details.
So I would definitely report the spouse, that was out of order. But you need to abide by employment law and by your individual working contracts with the coaches and if the clubs decision to force them to teach the child or leave is in contravention of that then the coach has every right to be aggrieved and could even point constructive dismissal at the club.
Police for the threatening behaviour (so you have a record and that if it happens again they know it is repeat behaviour).
Contracts for what the coaches can and cannot do. What does their contract say about who they can and cannot teach, what rights are given to them. I read that the club got together and decided that the coaches have to coach the child, but really if the coach has a contract that allows them to not coach a particular child under certain conditions it really isnt up to the club to make that decision, and subsequently the club cannot force a coach to leave.
What also isn't clear (and what someone raised above) is why the coach refused to coach the child? To be honest I could totally understand if a child has levelled a load of allegations at them, then the club decides nothing is amiss, that coach is then seriously concerned that it could happen again, if it happens again it could affect their day job also - I can understand this standpoint but again we know nothing of the actual details.
So I would definitely report the spouse, that was out of order. But you need to abide by employment law and by your individual working contracts with the coaches and if the clubs decision to force them to teach the child or leave is in contravention of that then the coach has every right to be aggrieved and could even point constructive dismissal at the club.
CheesecakeRunner said:
Is the child being violent towards the coaches? Or are the coaches concerned about future reactions of the child’s parents to their technique, even if it’s fine?
The latter. The child does not misbehave.The mother raised concerns with the welfare officer due to the strict coaching style of one coach and the child (8 years old) was upset after a coaching session. This is a big historical issue in British Gymnastics, so it's a sensitive subject. The committee looked into it and supported the coach, but the coach subsequently refused to have the child in the class and the other coaches closed ranks.
However, after a while, and after consulting BG, my daughter who is head coach, and the club committee came to a decision that no child should be excluded for no genuine reason...they spike to the two coaches present, and after this is the guy came in all guns blazing.
MBVitoria said:
Report the incident involving coach's husband to the police. Some sort of police action should follow, particularly if he's made threats about a child (although I wouldn't hold my breath...).
Civil proceedings for an injunction restraining him from approach her or entering the premises are going to be hellish expensive and if it's just a one-off incident I doubt it would succeed anyway. Log all contact and ensure statements are obtained from witnesses.
Might be best to just write to him to say that he is not welcome at the club and must not approach your staff (other than his wife obvs).
If the coaches are employees your daughter needs to ensure she is taking proper HR advice as "go away and think it through whether to hand in your notice" is just asking for a constructive unfair dismissal claim if the coach in question has over 2 years' service.
Thank you, that is all helpful.Civil proceedings for an injunction restraining him from approach her or entering the premises are going to be hellish expensive and if it's just a one-off incident I doubt it would succeed anyway. Log all contact and ensure statements are obtained from witnesses.
Might be best to just write to him to say that he is not welcome at the club and must not approach your staff (other than his wife obvs).
If the coaches are employees your daughter needs to ensure she is taking proper HR advice as "go away and think it through whether to hand in your notice" is just asking for a constructive unfair dismissal claim if the coach in question has over 2 years' service.
The welfare officer has contacted the police.
Apparently they have decided to investigate further and someone will contact the welfare officer soon.
Thanks for the replies.
I can see that there are two distinct issues. The coaching hr procedural issue, and the husband/threat/safeguarding issue.
Hopefully the heat will go out of the situation with the coach and it will blow over and she will keep doing the job, then also with a letter from the club and maybe a contact from the cops the husband will cool down and back-off.
Thanks again for the advice, all basic stuff, but not easy to see for those in the heat of a situation.
I can see that there are two distinct issues. The coaching hr procedural issue, and the husband/threat/safeguarding issue.
Hopefully the heat will go out of the situation with the coach and it will blow over and she will keep doing the job, then also with a letter from the club and maybe a contact from the cops the husband will cool down and back-off.
Thanks again for the advice, all basic stuff, but not easy to see for those in the heat of a situation.
One of the elements I don't understand is why the child HAS to be coached. If one of my staff had a client make accusations against them, that were subsequently fully investigated and were found to be without merit and said employ refused to work with said client, I would never force them or any of my other staff to work for them and would suggest the client go elsewhere - safeguarding works both ways. Why can't the parent be asked to take their child to a different club?
JQ said:
One of the elements I don't understand is why the child HAS to be coached. If one of my staff had a client make accusations against them, that were subsequently fully investigated and were found to be without merit and said employ refused to work with said client, I would never force them or any of my other staff to work for them and would suggest the client go elsewhere - safeguarding works both ways. Why can't the parent be asked to take their child to a different club?
Because there is a committee involved.courty said:
There is a bit of a backstory (obviously), but...
My daughter is the head coach on maternity leave.
At some point a parent raises concerns about the "coaching style" of one of the other coaches.
The coach refuses to meet parent (and the child welfare officer) to discuss concerns.
The committee look into the concerns and decide no action needed (this was accepted by the parent).
The coach then refuses to coach the child in question.
Remaining coaches close ranks and also refuse to coach the child and ask that the child is expelled from the club.
My daughter confers with the national body and also the club committee.
They decide there is no good reason to expel the child from the club or for the coaches to refuse to include the child in their sessions.
This is relayed back in person by the club chairman, child welfare officer and head coach to the two coaches who were not directly involved (they still need to meet with the other coach). One of the coaches accepts the decision, but the other (who has a daytime job with children) says she is terrified to include this child in her sessions and threatens to quit.
My daughter says, well ok, that is the situation, we have made the decision, so go away and think it through whether to hand in your notice.
OK that is some of the back-story, but the main event is this:
Next, the spouse of this coach comes into the gym hall, aggressively shouting, f-ing and blinding at my daughter, but also directly threatening the child and the mother that they need to watch their backs because he will "get them".
All this commotion was in the presence of other children and parents.
My daughter was too scared to walk out through the car park (this guy sits in his car out there) and was escorted out by the child welfare officer.
OK, to my question. Is there any way/enough of a reason for the gym club to apply for some kind of order to prevent this individual from visiting or sitting on the premises? i.e. either entering the training hall, or the private car park while the gym club is there?
If so, who would they contact in the first instance. I don't have a lot of confidence in the police, I don't think they will be interested. Are they the only option here? Has a legal threshold been crossed whereby the police should at least give advice to the club or inquire into the behaviour of this person?
Take police advice and make sure it’s logged properly. Nothing more to do at the moment unless you want to add extra security measures, cameras alarms, personal alarms etc. My daughter is the head coach on maternity leave.
At some point a parent raises concerns about the "coaching style" of one of the other coaches.
The coach refuses to meet parent (and the child welfare officer) to discuss concerns.
The committee look into the concerns and decide no action needed (this was accepted by the parent).
The coach then refuses to coach the child in question.
Remaining coaches close ranks and also refuse to coach the child and ask that the child is expelled from the club.
My daughter confers with the national body and also the club committee.
They decide there is no good reason to expel the child from the club or for the coaches to refuse to include the child in their sessions.
This is relayed back in person by the club chairman, child welfare officer and head coach to the two coaches who were not directly involved (they still need to meet with the other coach). One of the coaches accepts the decision, but the other (who has a daytime job with children) says she is terrified to include this child in her sessions and threatens to quit.
My daughter says, well ok, that is the situation, we have made the decision, so go away and think it through whether to hand in your notice.
OK that is some of the back-story, but the main event is this:
Next, the spouse of this coach comes into the gym hall, aggressively shouting, f-ing and blinding at my daughter, but also directly threatening the child and the mother that they need to watch their backs because he will "get them".
All this commotion was in the presence of other children and parents.
My daughter was too scared to walk out through the car park (this guy sits in his car out there) and was escorted out by the child welfare officer.
OK, to my question. Is there any way/enough of a reason for the gym club to apply for some kind of order to prevent this individual from visiting or sitting on the premises? i.e. either entering the training hall, or the private car park while the gym club is there?
If so, who would they contact in the first instance. I don't have a lot of confidence in the police, I don't think they will be interested. Are they the only option here? Has a legal threshold been crossed whereby the police should at least give advice to the club or inquire into the behaviour of this person?
Edited by courty on Thursday 22 February 13:08
Hammersia said:
JQ said:
One of the elements I don't understand is why the child HAS to be coached. If one of my staff had a client make accusations against them, that were subsequently fully investigated and were found to be without merit and said employ refused to work with said client, I would never force them or any of my other staff to work for them and would suggest the client go elsewhere - safeguarding works both ways. Why can't the parent be asked to take their child to a different club?
Because there is a committee involved.Obviously this chap was out of order and needs to be spoken too.
However, there is definitely another side to this story that no one here knows, so its very hard to judge. The OP isn't even typing first hand and has no idea other than what they've been told, which I suspect isn't the full details.
However, there is definitely another side to this story that no one here knows, so its very hard to judge. The OP isn't even typing first hand and has no idea other than what they've been told, which I suspect isn't the full details.
AceRockatansky said:
Obviously this chap was out of order and needs to be spoken too.
However, there is definitely another side to this story that no one here knows, so its very hard to judge. The OP isn't even typing first hand and has no idea other than what they've been told, which I suspect isn't the full details.
However, there is definitely another side to this story that no one here knows, so its very hard to judge. The OP isn't even typing first hand and has no idea other than what they've been told, which I suspect isn't the full details.
coldel said:
Hammersia said:
JQ said:
One of the elements I don't understand is why the child HAS to be coached. If one of my staff had a client make accusations against them, that were subsequently fully investigated and were found to be without merit and said employ refused to work with said client, I would never force them or any of my other staff to work for them and would suggest the client go elsewhere - safeguarding works both ways. Why can't the parent be asked to take their child to a different club?
Because there is a committee involved.Speed Matters | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff