If you are very rich, how do you get a road rerouted?
Discussion
Scenario: You have bought the estate of your dreams except for one issue - the property is hundreds of acres but your house is right in one corner of it, next to a minor country road that's barely used - but understandably you don't fancy the hoi polloi near your house regardless.
Is there any way in England you can go about getting this road rerouted assuming you pay for all the costs? Assume for the sake of this that doing so wouldn't inconvenience anyone else in any material way. Or at least that you can buy them off (it's kinda given here you're gonna have to buy some fields off some famer).
Or perhaps you could even buy the road? There's no other properties or need for access off it for anyone apart from you in this example.
This is a hypothetical question (although inspired by a particular property which is laid out like that)
Is there any way in England you can go about getting this road rerouted assuming you pay for all the costs? Assume for the sake of this that doing so wouldn't inconvenience anyone else in any material way. Or at least that you can buy them off (it's kinda given here you're gonna have to buy some fields off some famer).
Or perhaps you could even buy the road? There's no other properties or need for access off it for anyone apart from you in this example.
This is a hypothetical question (although inspired by a particular property which is laid out like that)
Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Tuesday 27th February 23:42
Somewhatfoolish said:
Scenario: You have bought the estate of your dreams except for one issue - the property is hundreds of acres but your house is right in one corner of it, next to a minor country road that's barely used - but understandably you don't fancy the hoi polloi near your house regardless.
Is there any way in England you can go about getting this road rerouted assuming you pay for all the costs? Assume for the sake of this that doing so wouldn't inconvenience anyone else in any material way. Or at least that you can buy them off (it's kinda given here you're gonna have to buy some fields off some famer).
Or perhaps you could even buy the road? There's no other properties or need for access off it for anyone apart from you in this example.
This is a hypothetical question (although inspired by a particular property which is laid out like that)
If you have deep enough pockets I imagine everything is possible if you go about it the right way. pIs there any way in England you can go about getting this road rerouted assuming you pay for all the costs? Assume for the sake of this that doing so wouldn't inconvenience anyone else in any material way. Or at least that you can buy them off (it's kinda given here you're gonna have to buy some fields off some famer).
Or perhaps you could even buy the road? There's no other properties or need for access off it for anyone apart from you in this example.
This is a hypothetical question (although inspired by a particular property which is laid out like that)
Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Tuesday 27th February 23:42
s off the general public and it won’t be allowed but keep it nice and grease the right council workers palms and your away. If you own the land it would be diverted onto or can buy it, pay for the road building and diversion of utilities, signage etc. its hard to see how the average cash strapped borough or county council could justify knocking you back, especially if you bribe them with a new library/hall/school sports facility for the village. Depending on the size of the country pile it might be cheaper to get it put on skids and moved a few hundred yards away from the road. 
The process for 'stopping up' (extinguishing) an existing road is actually fairly straightforward.
The problem is that you have to demonstrate that the road is redundant.
To make it redundant, you'd have to persuade the Highways Authority (usually the County Council) to let you build a new road that does the job better, which would have to be built to their standards and 'adopted' by them (the adoption process is again well established, albeit costly and long-winded, involving payment of a 'commuted sum' towards the new road's future maintenance).
The problem is that you have to demonstrate that the road is redundant.
To make it redundant, you'd have to persuade the Highways Authority (usually the County Council) to let you build a new road that does the job better, which would have to be built to their standards and 'adopted' by them (the adoption process is again well established, albeit costly and long-winded, involving payment of a 'commuted sum' towards the new road's future maintenance).
hidetheelephants said:
Depending on the size of the country pile it might be cheaper to get it put on skids and moved a few hundred yards away from the road.
This is the way. Don't mess around with the road, take advantage of the situation to knock down some crumbling old pile and build a new place in the middle of the estate, with decent plumbing and modern electrics. Newc said:
This is the way. Don't mess around with the road, take advantage of the situation to knock down some crumbling old pile and build a new place in the middle of the estate, with decent plumbing and modern electrics.
Keep the old pile as a guest house or social experiment at the edge and build something new in the middle, Or, if your going to build a nice road then hold old one up with farm traffic, large equipment movements and blockages whilst hounding safety schemes to drop the limit to 20 making everyone use the brand new 60MPH road you supply. Who needs to deal with bureaucracy on their terms when your rich.Equus said:
To make it redundant, you'd have to persuade the Highways Authority (usually the County Council) to let you build a new road that does the job better, which would have to be built to their standards and 'adopted' by them (the adoption process is again well established, albeit costly and long-winded, involving payment of a 'commuted sum' towards the new road's future maintenance).
Aha - tell them that your new road is a bypass which will reduce congestion and carbon emissions. Stick a speed hump in it too if you like, they'll love it.If the Council don't adopt it once built, have a little man in a toll booth to collect a fiver from every motorist to pass the barrier. If they ask what it's for, he tells them its to offset their exhaust emissions. He can hand out 'My car is Net Zero!' stickers if it helps.
You knock the house down and move it because you are rich!
I know of an estate in Hampshire that was purchased and the main house was knocked and rebuilt in the same spot but at a different angle for a better view, apparently the estate was bought with part of the guys bonus for the year!
I know of an estate in Hampshire that was purchased and the main house was knocked and rebuilt in the same spot but at a different angle for a better view, apparently the estate was bought with part of the guys bonus for the year!
Edited by FMOB on Wednesday 28th February 20:04
Just complain it's being used as a rat run by heavy trucks to the local council, worked for a famous boxer near me that got a short road from our workshop closed just because it went past his new house, now I have to go all the way around. Despite never being used by the trucks they claimed it was, just locals in their cars leaving their houses...
Amazing how much you can screw over the locals with a few quid in the right pockets.
Amazing how much you can screw over the locals with a few quid in the right pockets.
Equus said:
The process for 'stopping up' (extinguishing) an existing road is actually fairly straightforward.
The problem is that you have to demonstrate that the road is redundant.
To make it redundant, you'd have to persuade the Highways Authority (usually the County Council) to let you build a new road that does the job better, which would have to be built to their standards and 'adopted' by them (the adoption process is again well established, albeit costly and long-winded, involving payment of a 'commuted sum' towards the new road's future maintenance).
Presumably you'd have to submit a planning application for the road, which would promote the case for the new road alignment. And depending on the scale, and the nature of the area, you might have to undertake an EIA.The problem is that you have to demonstrate that the road is redundant.
To make it redundant, you'd have to persuade the Highways Authority (usually the County Council) to let you build a new road that does the job better, which would have to be built to their standards and 'adopted' by them (the adoption process is again well established, albeit costly and long-winded, involving payment of a 'commuted sum' towards the new road's future maintenance).
Mad Maximus said:
If you have deep enough pockets I imagine everything is possible if you go about it the right way. ps off the general public and it won’t be allowed but keep it nice and grease the right council workers palms and your away.
The idea that ‘palms are greased’ in councils and local authority planning departments is utterly laughable, and yet keeps getting trotted out on this forum.s off the general public and it won’t be allowed but keep it nice and grease the right council workers palms and your away. Do you really think planning officers or their superiors would risk a £40-50k a year job, plus pension and all that, for someone stuffing a few grand in an envelope?
If by ‘grease palms’ you mean negotiate with the planning department by paying for community assets or local improvements in return for some sympathy towards your proposals, then yes, you can try that in some limited circumstances, but let’s not be silly and continue to spread the nonsense about planning departments and brown envelopes, because it simply isn’t true.
Mont Blanc said:
Mad Maximus said:
If you have deep enough pockets I imagine everything is possible if you go about it the right way. ps off the general public and it won’t be allowed but keep it nice and grease the right council workers palms and your away.
The idea that ‘palms are greased’ in councils and local authority planning departments is utterly laughable, and yet keeps getting trotted out on this forum.s off the general public and it won’t be allowed but keep it nice and grease the right council workers palms and your away. Do you really think planning officers or their superiors would risk a £40-50k a year job, plus pension and all that, for someone stuffing a few grand in an envelope?
Whereas I have seen councillors on the planning committee approve things against the council planning officer's recommendations, and on one such occasion the behaviour of a councillor who voted in favour to the applicant after the meeting left me in no doubt that a 'favour' was being returned. Yes, it was *that* unsubtle.
Now whether the favour was cash or something else, I obviously have no idea, but something of value had been exchanged for the consent being given.
PF62 said:
Mont Blanc said:
Mad Maximus said:
If you have deep enough pockets I imagine everything is possible if you go about it the right way. ps off the general public and it won’t be allowed but keep it nice and grease the right council workers palms and your away.
The idea that ‘palms are greased’ in councils and local authority planning departments is utterly laughable, and yet keeps getting trotted out on this forum.s off the general public and it won’t be allowed but keep it nice and grease the right council workers palms and your away. Do you really think planning officers or their superiors would risk a £40-50k a year job, plus pension and all that, for someone stuffing a few grand in an envelope?
Whereas I have seen councillors on the planning committee approve things against the council planning officer's recommendations, and on one such occasion the behaviour of a councillor who voted in favour to the applicant after the meeting left me in no doubt that a 'favour' was being returned. Yes, it was *that* unsubtle.
Now whether the favour was cash or something else, I obviously have no idea, but something of value had been exchanged for the consent being given.
Not a planning issue, but I've witnessed dodgy behaviour at public council meetings. The general format is MoP asks about the value of some seemingly unnecessary work that is about to be contracted. A councillor will be very keen to talk at length about how necessary it is, without really saying much. Then another councillor or the original MoP queries if the work was put out to tender and who the contractor selected is, all of a sudden the councillor doesn't know anything about it and by the next meeting plans are shelved.
Presumably if no-one asks then it goes ahead and their mate/lodge brother/person with pictures of them wearing a leather posing pouch with a tangerine in their mouth gets paid over the odds for unnecessary work. I know councillors who I think are above board and trustworthy, but I've come across a few where I really wonder if their colleagues should be blowing the whistle.
donkmeister said:
PF62 said:
Mont Blanc said:
Mad Maximus said:
If you have deep enough pockets I imagine everything is possible if you go about it the right way. ps off the general public and it won’t be allowed but keep it nice and grease the right council workers palms and your away.
The idea that ‘palms are greased’ in councils and local authority planning departments is utterly laughable, and yet keeps getting trotted out on this forum.s off the general public and it won’t be allowed but keep it nice and grease the right council workers palms and your away. Do you really think planning officers or their superiors would risk a £40-50k a year job, plus pension and all that, for someone stuffing a few grand in an envelope?
Whereas I have seen councillors on the planning committee approve things against the council planning officer's recommendations, and on one such occasion the behaviour of a councillor who voted in favour to the applicant after the meeting left me in no doubt that a 'favour' was being returned. Yes, it was *that* unsubtle.
Now whether the favour was cash or something else, I obviously have no idea, but something of value had been exchanged for the consent being given.
Not a planning issue, but I've witnessed dodgy behaviour at public council meetings. The general format is MoP asks about the value of some seemingly unnecessary work that is about to be contracted. A councillor will be very keen to talk at length about how necessary it is, without really saying much. Then another councillor or the original MoP queries if the work was put out to tender and who the contractor selected is, all of a sudden the councillor doesn't know anything about it and by the next meeting plans are shelved.
Presumably if no-one asks then it goes ahead and their mate/lodge brother/person with pictures of them wearing a leather posing pouch with a tangerine in their mouth gets paid over the odds for unnecessary work. I know councillors who I think are above board and trustworthy, but I've come across a few where I really wonder if their colleagues should be blowing the whistle.
(Although nowhere near my hypothetical estate please. That's not for the likes of you lot)
Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Thursday 29th February 22:13
I'd imagine it would go something like this:
1 Figure out where the new road will go, do you have enough space, is the drainage adequate etc
2 Employ a road planner to ensure the plans won't harm any wildlife or p
s off local residents etc3 Get some plans drawn up
4 Get legal authorisation for the new road. Suspect it would grease the wheels somewhat to meet with you local councillor and sponsor some local community projects, football teams etc
5 Appoint road builders to build your new road
6 Remove old road
7 Track down Crudeoink on PH and pay him handsomely for the project plan!
I have done something similar when I worked as a Civil Engineer c20 years ago.
The diverted road will need planning approval and to support the planning application will need a suite of reports/studies. The Highway Authority will likely require a Traffic Impact Assessment (TIA), the key focus will be that existing road users aren’t inconvenienced by a longer/slower road journey. If the journey time is longer, Highway Authority will likely object, just because …. and I suspect you’ll need to offer some benefit to the local community (or environment) as compensation. This could be a financial contribution to the local authority to spend on an agreed project. Contribution will be managed under a Section 106 Agreement.
The application will also require an Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA). You’ll need an ecologist who understands the local ecology and what is locally sensitive. Ecologist will agree with Council Ecologist what needs to be surveyed and then surveys undertaken. Most surveys can only be undertaken at certain times of the year. Some ecological issues will prevent the road construction, for example if the surveys identify protected species. As it is a road, the alignment could be adjusted to avoid ecological issues, but that could increase road length and journey time and disruption to existing road users. The ecology surveys may find ecology issues that require mitigation. I’ve had to relocate meadow grassland and provide tunnels for mammals etc. Ecology surveys will also have to consider where surface water runoff from the road will discharge to and the impact on the receiving watercourse, volume of water and water quality.
If the road is granted planning approval, legal documents that you’ll need are Section 106 Agreement if there is any financial or material contribution. Section 38 Agreement to allow the new road to be adopted by the Council. Section 278 Agreement if significant works are required to the existing adopted highway. There would also be a stopping up order to allow the old road to be removed.
If you want to proceed with the project, I’d suggest you appoint a Planning Consultant first. You’ll also need a Civil/Highway Engineer to design the road and drainage design for planning first and then detailed design when planning is approved, but the road design is relatively simple. Planning Consultant should be able to manage S106 and Engineer should be able to manage S38/278, but you may want to appoint a solicitor for the legal documents.
Planning Consultant should know the local ecologists for the EIA and manage the planning process.
Engineer should be able to draft the TIA.
Once you have planning approval, instruct the Engineer to complete the detailed design. The Engineer should be able to tender the road construction to suitable contractors (without appointing a Quantity Surveyor) and manage the road construction, contract and road maintenance/adoption.
In 25 years of working in development I’ve never heard of a Planning Officer taking a bribe. There are always bad eggs, but I’ve never come across, or heard of any.
The diverted road will need planning approval and to support the planning application will need a suite of reports/studies. The Highway Authority will likely require a Traffic Impact Assessment (TIA), the key focus will be that existing road users aren’t inconvenienced by a longer/slower road journey. If the journey time is longer, Highway Authority will likely object, just because …. and I suspect you’ll need to offer some benefit to the local community (or environment) as compensation. This could be a financial contribution to the local authority to spend on an agreed project. Contribution will be managed under a Section 106 Agreement.
The application will also require an Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA). You’ll need an ecologist who understands the local ecology and what is locally sensitive. Ecologist will agree with Council Ecologist what needs to be surveyed and then surveys undertaken. Most surveys can only be undertaken at certain times of the year. Some ecological issues will prevent the road construction, for example if the surveys identify protected species. As it is a road, the alignment could be adjusted to avoid ecological issues, but that could increase road length and journey time and disruption to existing road users. The ecology surveys may find ecology issues that require mitigation. I’ve had to relocate meadow grassland and provide tunnels for mammals etc. Ecology surveys will also have to consider where surface water runoff from the road will discharge to and the impact on the receiving watercourse, volume of water and water quality.
If the road is granted planning approval, legal documents that you’ll need are Section 106 Agreement if there is any financial or material contribution. Section 38 Agreement to allow the new road to be adopted by the Council. Section 278 Agreement if significant works are required to the existing adopted highway. There would also be a stopping up order to allow the old road to be removed.
If you want to proceed with the project, I’d suggest you appoint a Planning Consultant first. You’ll also need a Civil/Highway Engineer to design the road and drainage design for planning first and then detailed design when planning is approved, but the road design is relatively simple. Planning Consultant should be able to manage S106 and Engineer should be able to manage S38/278, but you may want to appoint a solicitor for the legal documents.
Planning Consultant should know the local ecologists for the EIA and manage the planning process.
Engineer should be able to draft the TIA.
Once you have planning approval, instruct the Engineer to complete the detailed design. The Engineer should be able to tender the road construction to suitable contractors (without appointing a Quantity Surveyor) and manage the road construction, contract and road maintenance/adoption.
In 25 years of working in development I’ve never heard of a Planning Officer taking a bribe. There are always bad eggs, but I’ve never come across, or heard of any.
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