Neighbours Access
Discussion
Bit of an odd one.
To the rear of my house there is an access to park. The access is formed across the rear gardens of 3 houses and is dealt with formally by a deed, the deed sets the access out by clear reference to boundaries and the dimensions are defined by those, so it is fairly structured.
My next door neighbour has had a continuing issue with me in terms of their access, which is predominantly caused by the restriction on their side of the boundary making entry and exit difficult. There is a clear need for them to lay out their area differently so they are exiting perpendicular to the boundary, instead they expect excessive width my side to continue their manoeuvres on my side of the boundary.
The confusion is further compounded by my relaying some slabs I took up from an old patio as a parking area – at the time it made sense to me to lay old council slabs rather than gravel, I just laid the slabs to the area of slabs I had, which has left a wider gravel area than their access dimensions legally require, such that anytime I park slightly overhanging my slabs I usually receive a text grumbling.
To context this the access they are trying to pass through is 2.8m at the very worst, in a normal family car, we are not talking inches of clearance, more feet. And the ‘restriction’ I create is not the limiting factor in the length of the access.
I understand in an ideal world this would be resolved amicably but for a different reason, caused by the above misunderstanding, which I won’t go into, I am now considering gating my garden, such that their comings and goings would require opening a gate to pass over my land. Nothing is mentioned in the deed, other than we are required to form an opening in our boundary to allow their passage, would gating this opening, and requesting they use this gate rather than leave it open, be illegal?
To the rear of my house there is an access to park. The access is formed across the rear gardens of 3 houses and is dealt with formally by a deed, the deed sets the access out by clear reference to boundaries and the dimensions are defined by those, so it is fairly structured.
My next door neighbour has had a continuing issue with me in terms of their access, which is predominantly caused by the restriction on their side of the boundary making entry and exit difficult. There is a clear need for them to lay out their area differently so they are exiting perpendicular to the boundary, instead they expect excessive width my side to continue their manoeuvres on my side of the boundary.
The confusion is further compounded by my relaying some slabs I took up from an old patio as a parking area – at the time it made sense to me to lay old council slabs rather than gravel, I just laid the slabs to the area of slabs I had, which has left a wider gravel area than their access dimensions legally require, such that anytime I park slightly overhanging my slabs I usually receive a text grumbling.
To context this the access they are trying to pass through is 2.8m at the very worst, in a normal family car, we are not talking inches of clearance, more feet. And the ‘restriction’ I create is not the limiting factor in the length of the access.
I understand in an ideal world this would be resolved amicably but for a different reason, caused by the above misunderstanding, which I won’t go into, I am now considering gating my garden, such that their comings and goings would require opening a gate to pass over my land. Nothing is mentioned in the deed, other than we are required to form an opening in our boundary to allow their passage, would gating this opening, and requesting they use this gate rather than leave it open, be illegal?
much easier with pictures (non-identifying of course) photos / deeds map / OS map / hand-sketched!
A right of way can have a gate across it - it can even be locked, but you can't prevent those with the right from using it, so they would need to be able to open the gate / unlock it / etc. as necessary - I lived for 20 years in a cottage where my drive and next door's had a weird (though legally clear) division of ownership and access which meant that I had to go through their 5 bar gate - no issues, they left it unlocked and I went in and out leaving it as I found it...
A right of way can have a gate across it - it can even be locked, but you can't prevent those with the right from using it, so they would need to be able to open the gate / unlock it / etc. as necessary - I lived for 20 years in a cottage where my drive and next door's had a weird (though legally clear) division of ownership and access which meant that I had to go through their 5 bar gate - no issues, they left it unlocked and I went in and out leaving it as I found it...
hidetheelephants said:
Are you parking on your land? Do the problem neighbours have an easement on that land?
I suppose it’s fair to say they are not problem neighbours. They are just a bit lacking in self awareness and emotional intelligence!Part of my issue is I’ve been tolerant and I don’t want to escalate it, but there comes a point with everyone where something has to give.
ozzuk said:
I'd maybe explain where the boundary is (if you are that confident, not many plans show that level of detail i.e. width of boundary) and put a simple chain there.
Quite fortunately the deed refers to a coloured area and the coloured area makes reference to 2 established fixed points in determining its width, so without a measurement expressed it is well defined.My two current thoughts are to gate the access and ask them to close the gate as they come and go or extend my slabs to better define the area they have access over.
The legal definition of what they are allowed is obviously the authoritative guide, but as you have already found, people go on the visual - they are visually seeing all of that route as being the access, hence that they wish to use all of what they see... I would hazard a guess that they genuinely believe that they are right because the access is the space and there it all is!
So I would separate the permitted area and the rest through paving slabs / separated textures or colours or anything so that visually they can see the yellow brick road to follow...
I would then write them a polite note commenting that you had noticed that there seemed to be a lack of clarity in where the permitted easement lies, so you have visually marked it out to make it clear - explain that now the yellow brick road makes it clear and that is the legal area they can use to avoid doubt... enclose with it the measurements and a copy of the easement...
So I would separate the permitted area and the rest through paving slabs / separated textures or colours or anything so that visually they can see the yellow brick road to follow...
I would then write them a polite note commenting that you had noticed that there seemed to be a lack of clarity in where the permitted easement lies, so you have visually marked it out to make it clear - explain that now the yellow brick road makes it clear and that is the legal area they can use to avoid doubt... enclose with it the measurements and a copy of the easement...
akirk said:
The legal definition of what they are allowed is obviously the authoritative guide, but as you have already found, people go on the visual - they are visually seeing all of that route as being the access, hence that they wish to use all of what they see... I would hazard a guess that they genuinely believe that they are right because the access is the space and there it all is!
So I would separate the permitted area and the rest through paving slabs / separated textures or colours or anything so that visually they can see the yellow brick road to follow...
I would then write them a polite note commenting that you had noticed that there seemed to be a lack of clarity in where the permitted easement lies, so you have visually marked it out to make it clear - explain that now the yellow brick road makes it clear and that is the legal area they can use to avoid doubt... enclose with it the measurements and a copy of the easement...
Makes sense. To be honest I don’t mind their using the wider area 90% of the time, but there are occasional exceptions when I wish to load my car or I have a longer vehicle, and being told I’m restricting their access is a bit frustrating.So I would separate the permitted area and the rest through paving slabs / separated textures or colours or anything so that visually they can see the yellow brick road to follow...
I would then write them a polite note commenting that you had noticed that there seemed to be a lack of clarity in where the permitted easement lies, so you have visually marked it out to make it clear - explain that now the yellow brick road makes it clear and that is the legal area they can use to avoid doubt... enclose with it the measurements and a copy of the easement...
What I believe has happened is I recently ignored their requests to move for a slightly longer period than I have before and they appear to have retaliated in a slightly passive aggressive manner. So for me the easiest solution is to clear up the underlying ambiguity rather than try and solve the symptom issues.
Zeeky said:
If there is a building top right how can they lay out their land for easier access? If you have been parking to prevent use of that part of your land their use of it may not be continuous with respect to a prescriptive right. How long have they been using it?
I was assuming that the neighbour is beyond the top of the diagram (where it says boundary) and like to swing across the OP's land to the left of the dotted line to get in and out of the area of his land where they do have an easement (to the right of the dotted line) - but I could be wrong 
akirk said:
Zeeky said:
If there is a building top right how can they lay out their land for easier access? If you have been parking to prevent use of that part of your land their use of it may not be continuous with respect to a prescriptive right. How long have they been using it?
I was assuming that the neighbour is beyond the top of the diagram (where it says boundary) and like to swing across the OP's land to the left of the dotted line to get in and out of the area of his land where they do have an easement (to the right of the dotted line) - but I could be wrong dave123456 said:
akirk said:
Zeeky said:
If there is a building top right how can they lay out their land for easier access? If you have been parking to prevent use of that part of your land their use of it may not be continuous with respect to a prescriptive right. How long have they been using it?
I was assuming that the neighbour is beyond the top of the diagram (where it says boundary) and like to swing across the OP's land to the left of the dotted line to get in and out of the area of his land where they do have an easement (to the right of the dotted line) - but I could be wrong Speed Matters | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff