Has Scotland been infected by the 20mph / 50mph disease?
Discussion
Having just returned from the annual 4 days biking around the highlands/ cairngorm's and borders trip, I noticed that a lot of the roads that used to be 60mph/NSL have now been changed to 50mph signage, even though a lot of these roads are out in the middle of nowhere. villages and towns now have 20mph zones instead of 30mph.
I assume this has just been done recently as I go up there every year. Is Scotland becoming the new Wales? In the 4 days I was there, I saw 2 police cars (both in towns) so how are they hoping to enforce the 50mph limits in the highlands?
I assume this has just been done recently as I go up there every year. Is Scotland becoming the new Wales? In the 4 days I was there, I saw 2 police cars (both in towns) so how are they hoping to enforce the 50mph limits in the highlands?
STe_rsv4 said:
In the 4 days I was there, I saw 2 police cars (both in towns) so how are they hoping to enforce the 50mph limits in the highlands?
They don't need to enforce it. Most people just do what they are told, and the ones that don't probably weren't obeying the 60 signs either.I saw that they had carried out a consultation about lowering the NSL to 50mph, but I also saw that it got a lot of backlash so would be surprised if it became a blanket 50mph across the whole of Scotland - here's the Highland council saying they object https://www.highland.gov.uk/news/article/16490/res...
I used to love heading up to the Cairngorms and up to Ullapool - any roads in particular that you noticed had been lowered to 50?
I used to love heading up to the Cairngorms and up to Ullapool - any roads in particular that you noticed had been lowered to 50?
LimaDelta said:
STe_rsv4 said:
In the 4 days I was there, I saw 2 police cars (both in towns) so how are they hoping to enforce the 50mph limits in the highlands?
They don't need to enforce it. Most people just do what they are told, and the ones that don't probably weren't obeying the 60 signs either.The worlds (UK) has gone mad!
Travelling down the A59 from Ormskirk towards Liverpool the other week the road is a two lane dual carriageway 60 mph.
Due to one lane of each carriageway closed due to roadworks the powers that be have posted a TWENTY speed limit!
Yes, there was a workforce present BUT 20 mph seemed way too low. 30 mph i could understand. This is a very wide road.
Travelling down there at 60 then down immediately to 20 is insane.
Big frustration and road rage and intimidation on display everywhere.
Who exactly sets these limits and thinks that it improves safety - the road presents more danger setting 20 mph due to drivers frustration!
Edited.to acknowledge that Liverpool is not in Scotland
but infection is spreading around all of the UK.
Travelling down the A59 from Ormskirk towards Liverpool the other week the road is a two lane dual carriageway 60 mph.
Due to one lane of each carriageway closed due to roadworks the powers that be have posted a TWENTY speed limit!
Yes, there was a workforce present BUT 20 mph seemed way too low. 30 mph i could understand. This is a very wide road.
Travelling down there at 60 then down immediately to 20 is insane.
Big frustration and road rage and intimidation on display everywhere.
Who exactly sets these limits and thinks that it improves safety - the road presents more danger setting 20 mph due to drivers frustration!
Edited.to acknowledge that Liverpool is not in Scotland
but infection is spreading around all of the UK.Edited by Down on the Farm on Tuesday 15th April 15:22
My road has been 20mph for 4 years. So it's not recent.
And it's brilliant.
Safer for walking and cycling to school or work - not prioritising some visitor or passing through motorist over active travel.
Less noise, less pollution, less hassle, more welcoming for everyone (except the speeding driver).
I've just spent a week cycling around Holland, where 30kph is standard in residential streets and common across Europe, so again nothing new or unexpected.
OP's post is perfect example of motornormativity.
Holland was full of great cars as well - one lovely 1970s 911 on Oslo blue, my perfect car.
And it's brilliant.
Safer for walking and cycling to school or work - not prioritising some visitor or passing through motorist over active travel.
Less noise, less pollution, less hassle, more welcoming for everyone (except the speeding driver).
I've just spent a week cycling around Holland, where 30kph is standard in residential streets and common across Europe, so again nothing new or unexpected.
OP's post is perfect example of motornormativity.
Holland was full of great cars as well - one lovely 1970s 911 on Oslo blue, my perfect car.
talllawrence said:
I saw that they had carried out a consultation about lowering the NSL to 50mph, but I also saw that it got a lot of backlash so would be surprised if it became a blanket 50mph across the whole of Scotland - here's the Highland council saying they object https://www.highland.gov.uk/news/article/16490/res...
I used to love heading up to the Cairngorms and up to Ullapool - any roads in particular that you noticed had been lowered to 50?
I note that the Highlands council supports the speed limit increase for HGV's to 50 and 60 mph respectively for single track and dual carriageway.I used to love heading up to the Cairngorms and up to Ullapool - any roads in particular that you noticed had been lowered to 50?
This will inevitably lead to the convoy of trucks and cars, specifically on single lane roads, causing long tail backs as the tourist vehicle or any other vehicle will be reluctant to overtake, which in turn will increase the number of impatient drivers who will be overtaking at points on the road that are unsuitable/unsighted for multi vehicle overtaking situations.
So as an aside would a vehicle travelling at lets say 35-40 mph on a single or dual carriageway be penalised/pulled up by the police for driving too slowly, (such as happens in some instances particularly on motorways), and supposedly preventing HGV's from overtaking, by travelling too slow.
One would hope that the HGV's would wait until there is a clear distance of at least a mile before attempting an overtake, uphill, to prevent the snail race situation as happens elsewhere such as on the A38.
Master Bean said:
Oxfordshire is the new Wales.
Couldn't agree more and it's so frustrating that they get away with it. The A424 below has recently-ish been dropped from 60mph to 50mph by Oxfordshire CC, and it's one of the widest, clearest highest visibility roads I can think of, and I've never seen an accident on it. How they can make changes like this without any consultation or outcry is bonkers.The only real change apart from the speed limit is the sign that might be visible in the picture below - "Police Vehicles Only". Funny that, that wasn't there before they dropped the speed limit. Wonder why that might be...
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ooqiS4Abe3h2NK286
Racing Newt said:
This will inevitably lead to the convoy of trucks and cars, specifically on single lane roads, causing long tail backs as the tourist vehicle or any other vehicle will be reluctant to overtake, which in turn will increase the number of impatient drivers who will be overtaking at points on the road that are unsuitable/unsighted for multi vehicle overtaking situations.
If there are decent enough gaps in that convoy for people to overtake 1 or 2 cars at a time when safe, then it wouldn't necessarily be an issue. I would guess that a lot of accidents come about due to frustrated overtakes, where people decide to try to overtake a long line of cars in one go when it really isn't safe to do so, and are unable to pick them off one by one because people are driving bumper to bumper.In my experience, the general awareness of a lot of drivers in the highlands who don't drive country roads very often, if at all, is actually quite worrying.
A stark contrast to an 80-year old Grandma in her 2004 Renault Clio who has lived in the highlands all her life and judging by how she can pedal a car, one would assume is a distant relative of Colin McRae.....
POIDH said:
My road has been 20mph for 4 years. So it's not recent.
And it's brilliant.
Safer for walking and cycling to school or work - not prioritising some visitor or passing through motorist over active travel.
Less noise, less pollution, less hassle, more welcoming for everyone (except the speeding driver).
I've just spent a week cycling around Holland, where 30kph is standard in residential streets and common across Europe, so again nothing new or unexpected.
OP's post is perfect example of motornormativity.
Holland was full of great cars as well - one lovely 1970s 911 on Oslo blue, my perfect car.
TBH the 20 areas don't bother me that much provided its a built up area, although it does feel pathetically slow when there are no obvious hazards (schools / shops / walkways etc), its more the 50mph zones that get my goat. One example being the A85 from Inverlochy to Tyndrum. NIce wide open and good visibility road, no reason to have this at 50mph IMOAnd it's brilliant.
Safer for walking and cycling to school or work - not prioritising some visitor or passing through motorist over active travel.
Less noise, less pollution, less hassle, more welcoming for everyone (except the speeding driver).
I've just spent a week cycling around Holland, where 30kph is standard in residential streets and common across Europe, so again nothing new or unexpected.
OP's post is perfect example of motornormativity.
Holland was full of great cars as well - one lovely 1970s 911 on Oslo blue, my perfect car.
Two weeks ago, a new single carriageway road called the New Kingsway opened just north of Perth. It has a dedicated cycle/foot path along its entire length. The road links the A9 to the A93 (Blairgowrie) and the A94 (Coupar Angus) with the aim to reduce traffic flowing through Perth itself. Predictably, the road has been limited to 50mph and a number of local villages have now had ramps and speed diversions installed at each end. This is on top of the 20mph speed limits that were already in place. I fully understand the new road will increase the traffic flows through the rural villages on the A93 and A94 and measures have been taken to reduce the impact on village residents but the 50mph limit on the New Kingsway is “intended to allow for more flexible road alignment and improve conditions for all road users”. Sounds a load of ballcocks to me!
the cueball said:
Yup, loads of people around my way in central Scotland already doing 40/50mph in 60 zones..
They still do that in the 20mph zones as well mind you!
It's a bit of a s
t show... but as long as they are still texting and facetiming someone, that's all they care about.
There's really no rhyme or reason to what I saw in the central belt this week:They still do that in the 20mph zones as well mind you!
It's a bit of a s
t show... but as long as they are still texting and facetiming someone, that's all they care about.- 50 zone: most people doing 40, only few people go up to 50.
- 40 zones on a DC: suddenly almost everyone is doing 50 - or at least I'm being overtaken by most people when doing 40 + 5-10%.
- Motorway: multiple people doing 50 on an empty weekend morning !?
- 30 zones: I'm the slowcoach going at 34 (indicated, I didn't get round to measuring with GPS in this rental).
Enforcing 50 in the highlands won't make much difference to the average driver, but I do feel very sorry for the locals.
Scaleybrat said:
Two weeks ago, a new single carriageway road called the New Kingsway opened just north of Perth. It has a dedicated cycle/foot path along its entire length. The road links the A9 to the A93 (Blairgowrie) and the A94 (Coupar Angus) with the aim to reduce traffic flowing through Perth itself. Predictably, the road has been limited to 50mph and a number of local villages have now had ramps and speed diversions installed at each end. This is on top of the 20mph speed limits that were already in place. I fully understand the new road will increase the traffic flows through the rural villages on the A93 and A94 and measures have been taken to reduce the impact on village residents but the 50mph limit on the New Kingsway is “intended to allow for more flexible road alignment and improve conditions for all road users”. Sounds a load of ballcocks to me!
I drove that new road the other day - it’s not bad & to be honest I don’t think the 50mph is out of touch ….However, the speed ramps - what a joke! they have them coming out of towns too with folks slowing to 10mph to cross them.
Speed Matters | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff