Loss of earnings calc help
Discussion
I was involved in a RTC over 2 years ago, was hit from behind whilst in a work vehicle. I have been using the unions solicitors for my claim. I received an offer of a settlement for both my injuries and loss of earnings, the injuries amount was fair (in my opinion), however the loss of earnings was well below what I was expecting.
I had submitted my wage slips, but due to backpay (a national dispute meant I was underpaid for 18 months, then got it all backpaid), my post crash earnings look a lot higher than they should be. If you minus this backpay, I'd have been paid my standard wage via sick pay. A second wage slip the defendants insurers used post crash, was after I'd gone back to work (I had 35 hours/1 week on the sick, the rest was back to normal working), and also included some overtime shifts, which again has raised the average amount earned post crash.
I've explained this to my solicitors, but they have today told me 'they aren't accountants' and I should work out myself how much I'm owed or employ an accountant to, and this will need to be done if we proceed to court, which they suggest we may have to do.
My two questions are, how specific do I need to be in working out my earnings, to the exact pound, or could I state approx x amount? Am I ok to say to my solicitors I believe I'm owed x amount, but I'll accept z amount as a fair compromise? It's hard to work out exactly net amounts due to varying levels of tax every month.
Secondly, how likely is this to get to court? I don't know if it's just the other side trying to lower what they have to pay me, which is probably standard practice.
For reference the loss of earnings that I've been offered is 30-35% of what I believe I'm owed.
I had submitted my wage slips, but due to backpay (a national dispute meant I was underpaid for 18 months, then got it all backpaid), my post crash earnings look a lot higher than they should be. If you minus this backpay, I'd have been paid my standard wage via sick pay. A second wage slip the defendants insurers used post crash, was after I'd gone back to work (I had 35 hours/1 week on the sick, the rest was back to normal working), and also included some overtime shifts, which again has raised the average amount earned post crash.
I've explained this to my solicitors, but they have today told me 'they aren't accountants' and I should work out myself how much I'm owed or employ an accountant to, and this will need to be done if we proceed to court, which they suggest we may have to do.
My two questions are, how specific do I need to be in working out my earnings, to the exact pound, or could I state approx x amount? Am I ok to say to my solicitors I believe I'm owed x amount, but I'll accept z amount as a fair compromise? It's hard to work out exactly net amounts due to varying levels of tax every month.
Secondly, how likely is this to get to court? I don't know if it's just the other side trying to lower what they have to pay me, which is probably standard practice.
For reference the loss of earnings that I've been offered is 30-35% of what I believe I'm owed.
If you have already been given an offer then you will hopefully be able to avoid anything getting to court, as long as you can demonstrate why the numbers are currently wrong.
Your solicitors sound like they need a kick up the arse but that will be best done by just detailing what the real loss of earnings are with the payslips etc as evidence.
Your solicitors sound like they need a kick up the arse but that will be best done by just detailing what the real loss of earnings are with the payslips etc as evidence.
I mean…. This could be a really complicated calculation where you factor in missed opportunities and pay rises etc over the last two years… but I wouldn’t think that is going to go very far and likely be a complete minefield for you.
I don’t really know what you’ve been through and what you think is reasonable… however when you say that you have been offered 30-35% less than what you believe you are owed, surely you have already calculated a figure?
If I was calculating it, I would likely take my salary at the time of the accident… let’s call this figure 1.
I’d then add up the c.24 payslips/payments i’d received over the 24 months since the accident to generate figure 2.
I’d then minus figure 2 from figure 1.
This (along with other direct expenses) would be the basis of my claim.
Of your firm have given company wide ‘blanket’ increases for inflation… I’d adjust for this also.
I have no experience of this, but these are my musings.
All the best with it!
I don’t really know what you’ve been through and what you think is reasonable… however when you say that you have been offered 30-35% less than what you believe you are owed, surely you have already calculated a figure?
If I was calculating it, I would likely take my salary at the time of the accident… let’s call this figure 1.
I’d then add up the c.24 payslips/payments i’d received over the 24 months since the accident to generate figure 2.
I’d then minus figure 2 from figure 1.
This (along with other direct expenses) would be the basis of my claim.
Of your firm have given company wide ‘blanket’ increases for inflation… I’d adjust for this also.
I have no experience of this, but these are my musings.
All the best with it!
By the sounds of it, your PI claim is sorted.
Loss of earnings is the issue here, before giving advice, whilst you were off work was there any company sick pay, ratcheting down weekly per the company policy? Did they then transfer you to SSP? Did you claim Universal Credit?
30% on the basis of the above, makes me think it might be a top-up hence why they’ve landed on that figure to place you financially in the position you were pre-accident.
Union Shop Stewards are not Employment Lawyers. That said, neither am I - I once sat through about six lectures and was bored.
My tacit advice would be to go to your employer, dispute the figure but ask for an explanation on how they’ve cogged the numbers. This will determine, upon receipt of their response, where you need to move it forwards…
Loss of earnings is the issue here, before giving advice, whilst you were off work was there any company sick pay, ratcheting down weekly per the company policy? Did they then transfer you to SSP? Did you claim Universal Credit?
30% on the basis of the above, makes me think it might be a top-up hence why they’ve landed on that figure to place you financially in the position you were pre-accident.
Union Shop Stewards are not Employment Lawyers. That said, neither am I - I once sat through about six lectures and was bored.
My tacit advice would be to go to your employer, dispute the figure but ask for an explanation on how they’ve cogged the numbers. This will determine, upon receipt of their response, where you need to move it forwards…
Thanks for your responses.
30-35% of what I believe I'm owed, not 30-35% less, just for clarity.
I'm not bothered about loss of promotion or anything like that, just want what I'd have earned in those 3 months that I didn't earn due to being on the sick, losing my shift premiums and also my overtime. I did receive company sick pay, but obviously this is just flat money.
I'm trying to work out my net pay losses, but I earn a different amount every month, hence why they're being done on averages (I guess it's the same for every claim), but due to being paid a large amount of backpay, it's bumped the average right up. I guess the easiest way is to try and work out my net backpay, and take that away from the wage slip, but I have no idea how much tax, NI etc. I've paid.
30-35% of what I believe I'm owed, not 30-35% less, just for clarity.
I'm not bothered about loss of promotion or anything like that, just want what I'd have earned in those 3 months that I didn't earn due to being on the sick, losing my shift premiums and also my overtime. I did receive company sick pay, but obviously this is just flat money.
I'm trying to work out my net pay losses, but I earn a different amount every month, hence why they're being done on averages (I guess it's the same for every claim), but due to being paid a large amount of backpay, it's bumped the average right up. I guess the easiest way is to try and work out my net backpay, and take that away from the wage slip, but I have no idea how much tax, NI etc. I've paid.
Contact your own HR, they should be able to provide you a 'what if' calculation from Payroll.
Regards Overtime and Shift Premiums you'll need to evidence a pattern from before the accident, probably a minimum of 6 months, and they may then consider paying an average, not much different to trying to get overtime / commissions etc included in mortgage applications.
Regards Overtime and Shift Premiums you'll need to evidence a pattern from before the accident, probably a minimum of 6 months, and they may then consider paying an average, not much different to trying to get overtime / commissions etc included in mortgage applications.
Leicester Loyal said:
I've explained this to my solicitors, but they have today told me 'they aren't accountants' and I should work out myself how much I'm owed or employ an accountant to, and this will need to be done if we proceed to court, which they suggest we may have to do.
This is frankly disgraceful, but does illustrate vividly how many personal injury firms are staffed by muppets these days. I would strongly suspect that your claim isn't being handled by a solicitor at all, but by some form of unqualified paralegal, who has neither the intelligence nor the training to to the job properly.
Any solicitor handling PI claims should be capable of calculating loss of earnings claims with reasonable accuracy. In really complex cases then it's quite normal for the solicitors to hire a forensic accountant to prepare a report, and the cost would normally be recoverable as part of your claim.
You need to go back to your solicitors and tell them that as they are holding themselves out as PI specialists they should be able to deal with it, and that if they aren't you want them to hire a forensic accountant. You might also add that if they don't deal with it competently you will speak to the union about it. The solicitors may not care much about your claim but they certainly won't want to upset the union that feeds them work.
I'm a Defendant lawyer, so what you've been offered so far is along the lines of what I would have offered you had you presented your claim to my insurer clients. Essentially, the figures are making it look like you've lost nothing, when in fact that's not correct.
In order to reverse that decision, I would expect to see (from your solicitor) either: a) a statement from someone in a relatively senior position at your company explaining how long you were off for, the earnings you would have expected to receive, why there is a shortfall and what that amount it, and also explaining the back pay situation. You would need someone in HR/Payroll to provide such a statement. Or b) a letter from your employer explaining the above, and setting out what the loss is.
If the figures look like you've earned more post-accident than you did pre-accident, you're not going to get a Defendant to offer what you believe you have lost without going to some lengths to prove it.
In order to reverse that decision, I would expect to see (from your solicitor) either: a) a statement from someone in a relatively senior position at your company explaining how long you were off for, the earnings you would have expected to receive, why there is a shortfall and what that amount it, and also explaining the back pay situation. You would need someone in HR/Payroll to provide such a statement. Or b) a letter from your employer explaining the above, and setting out what the loss is.
If the figures look like you've earned more post-accident than you did pre-accident, you're not going to get a Defendant to offer what you believe you have lost without going to some lengths to prove it.
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