Stop signs at junctions in France

[Michael_B]

Earlier this morning I ventured out from my place in La Chapelle-Naude towards Romenay to put some petrol in the motorbike. The fuel light had been on for 25km on the way back home last weekend and I am meeting a new riding chum (chance meeting at Moto Guzzi Chalon last week) early tomorrow and we agreed to arrive at the local Mairie with full tanks.

Just before the Carrefour Market 24hr filling station is a junction with visibility for >150m in either direction, as a one-way street joins a wider road at the apex of a 90° bend. I slow down, look each way, nothing in either direction, carry on and immediately pull in left to Carrefour.

As I am filling up I see a gendarme van pull into the supermarket car park, stop and approach me. Lots of "Do you know why we are speaking to you?" sort of questions, to which I say no. They are little puzzled by a Swiss driving licence and ID card on a French-registered vehicle, ridden by someone with traces of an English accent They tell me that it is a minimum three seconds that a vehicle should be immobile at a stop sign before setting off again, and that the maximum fine is €90 and four points on my licence.

I feign ignorance of this, and say that given the huge visibility at that junction I had perhaps assumed it was a give way and had not seen the (admittedly very large) stop sign. I did ask how they put points on a Swiss licence, to which the reply was, "Um... you just pay the fine."

They then say they will be 'sympa' and give me a fine for just a general small infraction at €45, reduced to €22 if I pay within 14 days. I am now waiting for this to arrive at my Swiss address. They did say that if it takes too long and is already past the two week period that I can appeal and for most non-French cases there is discretion shown. I resisted the temptation to say that their discretion could have extended to giving me a warning and no bloody fine at all.

My first traffic fine infraction in France (apart from perhaps 4 or 5 minor speeding tickets for being 5-10kph over on the motorway) after 25 years of riding/driving in surrounding France at home in Geneva, or around here in Deepest Burgundy at weekends/holidays since 2013.

So look out for those stop signs !

[Simpo Two]

It's good to know that French Plod have been so effective at eliminating crime that they've got down to that level. I hope the officer got his Pettiness Medal.

[Doofus]

'Stop' and 'Cédez le passage' are not the same and, yes, you should become completely stationary at a Stop sign. Petty or not, them's the rules.

[Michael_B]

Doofus said:

'Stop' and 'Cédez le passage' are not the same and, yes, you should become completely stationary at a Stop sign. Petty or not, them's the rules.

Indeed. I was guilty as charged, due to my inattention.

Although I’m not sure it was entirely necessary to breathalyze me at 11am. I think they were having a slow Sunday!

[Doofus]

Michael_B said:

Indeed. I was guilty as charged, due to my inattention.

Although I m not sure it was entirely necessary to breathalyze me at 11am. I think they were having a slow Sunday!

I think they breathalyse people that they stop as a matter of course. I was tested when I got stopped for speeding at 10:30am.

[caziques]

I had the same thing recently here in New Zealand. At a stop sign you are supposed to stop, then give way.

However, at this particular junction (the police are there regularly), from where the police are they cannot see the stop signs which are some metres back from the "line".

It's quite possible to stop at the stop signs, (with STOP also on the road) when there is a car in front who stops, and the police can't see it.

Off to court we go.

[Riley Blue]

Around 20 years ago a friend was driving his recently acquired pre-war Riley to the Le Mans Classic.

Being unfamiliar with the pre-selector gearbox he was a little slow moving off from a stop line across a major road and was stopped and fined by a lurking gendarme.

[Mr Miata]

I still remember when I had driving lessons 25 years ago, I was taught at a stop sign to come to a complete stop and to put the handbrake on and off before moving.

[vaud]

Michael_B said:

Indeed. I was guilty as charged, due to my inattention.

Although I m not sure it was entirely necessary to breathalyze me at 11am. I think they were having a slow Sunday!

Morning after a party a driver could still be way over the limit (not aimed at you)

Also in rural areas it is getting better but when the local gendarme is in the local bar with the farmers have a few pints… used to stay in rural Charente and it seemed common only a few years ago.

They were most bemused by the Brits and why we holidayed there. Super polite and when someone comes into the bar they shake hands with the new entrant.

Fortunately I speak good enough French to explain that we were going to keep the area as a secret and avoid an invasion of the rosbifs.

On the last day the owner chatted and brought out some cheese/ salami and bread and a bottle of wine; no charge.

[LesXRN]

Although you should stop at the sign, there is no actual law in France relating to the 3 second comment, it's utter BS and does not exist in the Code de la route.

[Dog Star]

Michael_B said:

Doofus said:

'Stop' and 'Cédez le passage' are not the same and, yes, you should become completely stationary at a Stop sign. Petty or not, them's the rules.

Indeed. I was guilty as charged, due to my inattention.

Although I m not sure it was entirely necessary to breathalyze me at 11am. I think they were having a slow Sunday!

I was always told that (in a car) just to be sure it was come to a complete stop, stick it in first and go, basically the gear change gives that “delay”.

We will however bear this pettiness in mind on the way to your place in a few weeks, Mike. It often strikes me how good UK coppers - especially trafpol - are with this kind of thing. They exercise discretion, something I’ve rarely seen from French police in traffic.

[Michael_B]

LesXRN said:

Although you should stop at the sign, there is no actual law in France relating to the 3 second comment, it's utter BS and does not exist in the Code de la route.

I’ve not bothered to look it up, and it did occur to me at the time that it was unlikely. However I just wanted to get the encounter over as soon as possible. I had also forgotten to put the carte grise/insurance certificate for the bike in my pocket before leaving the house, so they could also have done me for that as well.

I was trying to remain calm and respectful with two coppers whose joint ages were less than mine, who couldn’t find my country of birth in their handheld computer thing (Angleterre ou Grande-Bretagne? I told them to try Royaume-Uni…), and were clearly not « les outils les plus trenchants de la boîte »

[Michael_B]

Dog Star said:

We will however bear this pettiness in mind on the way to your place in a few weeks, Mike.

Looking forward to it. Will be good to catch up!

[Sam Aigal]

LesXRN said:

Although you should stop at the sign, there is no actual law in France relating to the 3 second comment, it's utter BS and does not exist in the Code de la route.

This ^^^^

To pass your bike test in france all you have to do is stop. They require you to put your foot on the ground to prove you have stopped but there is absolutely no stipulation on length of time.

[WyrleyD]

They are fond of doing this in Nexon (Haute-Vienne) and have done for years, there is a wide open T-junction with a stop sign if coming from Chalus. After turning right there is, as luck would have it, a Gendarmerie right there with a parking space for the waiting Gendarmes to stop anyone not coming to a complete stop at the stop sign. I was warned about it when we first moved over in 2004 so never got caught myself, our daughter did though on her way to the supermarket after dropping the kids at school.

[Derek Smith]

There are more accidents at junctions controlled by Stop signs than Give Way signs. The reason, the research suggests, although doesn't confirm, is that drivers on the main road fully expect the car at the junction to stop in the case of the former. They could well increase their speed on the way to the junction and, at the junction, they will not anticipate the car coming out so don't pay particular attention.

Drivers tend - I'm making no accusations here - to treat Stop signs as Give Way. Perhaps that's another reason for the increase in accident rates.

[Michael_B]

Derek Smith said:

There are more accidents at junctions controlled by Stop signs than Give Way signs. The reason, the research suggests, although doesn't confirm, is that drivers on the main road fully expect the car at the junction to stop in the case of the former. They could well increase their speed on the way to the junction and, at the junction, they will not anticipate the car coming out so don't pay particular attention.

Drivers tend - I'm making no accusations here - to treat Stop signs as Give Way. Perhaps that's another reason for the increase in accident rates.

At the specific junction I was fined for, there is no way for approaching traffic, in either direction, to know that the side road has a stop or give way sign, until they are <10 metres away, so as to be able to see the solid or broken line on the tarmac across the threshold. The sign itself is of course not visible from the main road.

[Doofus]

It's also worth noting that, whilst almost nobody observes it, the law says that this sign



means "Priorité à droit", and even if you're on the main road you are supposed to give way to somebody joining from a side road.

[Caddyshack]

In the UK a motorcycle rider must put their foot down at a stop sign with a complete stop.

[Vsix and Vtec]

Doofus said:

It's also worth noting that, whilst almost nobody observes it, the law says that this sign



means "Priorité à droit", and even if you're on the main road you are supposed to give way to somebody joining from a side road.

I thought "Priorité à droit" was the yellow diamond?