Flashed after variable gantry limit disappeared
Discussion
Was driving down the M1 earlier. I was doing the speed limit, my car has the cruise control that attaches to the sat nav / road signs and keeps to the limit and changes when it does. I was approaching a variable limit gantry and it was showing 60. I started to manually change the limit on the cruise because the system only slows once its passed the sign and I could see the yellow cameras to the left of the gantry. About 100 metres out the limit on the gantry disappeared. Wasn't replaced with NSL, just vanished. So I clicked back up to 70 to engage the auto limit. As I went under it flashed, it could well have been someone going to the other way, its hard to tell. I never passed a sign saying 60 so as far as I understand I was doing the correct speed
Im not bothered because even if it thinks the limit was 60 I was only 10 over (probably couple under as it was indicated 70), but Ive driven for nearly 30 years and never had any points nor had to attend a SAC (Im not be holier than thou, have frequently pressed on above the limit, just never been caught), would hate to have that record tarnished.
Will I see anything by way of a NIP and if so do I have a chance of saying I did nothing wrong?
Im not bothered because even if it thinks the limit was 60 I was only 10 over (probably couple under as it was indicated 70), but Ive driven for nearly 30 years and never had any points nor had to attend a SAC (Im not be holier than thou, have frequently pressed on above the limit, just never been caught), would hate to have that record tarnished.
Will I see anything by way of a NIP and if so do I have a chance of saying I did nothing wrong?
paul_c123 said:
Not the same though as the OP in that was breaking the limit whatever it was. I wasn't if NSL was in force which I am assuming it wasBut is the limit in force before or after the sign? Because I never passed a sign < NSL. If I'm driving on a b road at 60 NSL and approach a village where it's 30, surely it's not 30 when I see the sign, it's 30 when I've passed it.
This was my situation. I'm at 70 NSL on a motorway, ahead I SEE a 60 sign, then before passing it, it disappeared, so I was never under a 60 no?
This was my situation. I'm at 70 NSL on a motorway, ahead I SEE a 60 sign, then before passing it, it disappeared, so I was never under a 60 no?
I dug out the email (from 2018, mind you)
Their reply was:
"Thank you for your email to the Highways England customer contact centre on 28 August about speed limits displayed on smart motorways.
The simple answer to your question is that there should be an “End” or NSL signal displayed at the end of any reduced, variable speed limit. We are aware, however, that there are certain times and locations where this is not the case and our technical teams are working to apply a solution to resolve this issue.
From an enforcement point of view, the speed cameras can only enforce at either the speed limit displayed or, where no limit is displayed, the national speed limit and this would apply to the above scenario also.
Thanks again for your query. I hope that the above answers your query but if you need any further information please get in touch using the below contact details."
Pica-Pica said:
We have had this before. I asked Highways England. They responded, that until another limit shows or an NSL sign shows, then the prior limit displayed is still in force. An image taken should include the active displayed limit that is on that gantry to verify it.
What about where you pass a gantry with a sixty displayed, and then the next gantry has no limit displayed? Is the limit still sixty? And if you exceed this, how can they take a photo of the displayed limit if there isn't one?Super Sonic said:
Pica-Pica said:
We have had this before. I asked Highways England. They responded, that until another limit shows or an NSL sign shows, then the prior limit displayed is still in force. An image taken should include the active displayed limit that is on that gantry to verify it.
What about where you pass a gantry with a sixty displayed, and then the next gantry has no limit displayed? Is the limit still sixty? And if you exceed this, how can they take a photo of the displayed limit if there isn't one?Pica-Pica said:
I dug out the email (from 2018, mind you)
Their reply was:
"Thank you for your email to the Highways England customer contact centre on 28 August about speed limits displayed on smart motorways.
The simple answer to your question is that there should be an End or NSL signal displayed at the end of any reduced, variable speed limit. We are aware, however, that there are certain times and locations where this is not the case and our technical teams are working to apply a solution to resolve this issue.
From an enforcement point of view, the speed cameras can only enforce at either the speed limit displayed or, where no limit is displayed, the national speed limit and this would apply to the above scenario also.
Thanks again for your query. I hope that the above answers your query but if you need any further information please get in touch using the below contact details."
my boldTheir reply was:
"Thank you for your email to the Highways England customer contact centre on 28 August about speed limits displayed on smart motorways.
The simple answer to your question is that there should be an End or NSL signal displayed at the end of any reduced, variable speed limit. We are aware, however, that there are certain times and locations where this is not the case and our technical teams are working to apply a solution to resolve this issue.
From an enforcement point of view, the speed cameras can only enforce at either the speed limit displayed or, where no limit is displayed, the national speed limit and this would apply to the above scenario also.
Thanks again for your query. I hope that the above answers your query but if you need any further information please get in touch using the below contact details."
So they are aware that 'there are certain times and locations where (there is no 'end' or 'nsl' sign,)' and their technical team 'are working to apply a solution'! (Seven years ago!)
They also say the cameras can only enforce limits displayed or the nsl. As far as the op is concerned, no limit displayed means cameras can only enforce nsl. I don't think the op will get a ticket.
Edited by Super Sonic on Saturday 11th October 23:23
Scabutz said:
But is the limit in force before or after the sign? Because I never passed a sign < NSL. If I'm driving on a b road at 60 NSL and approach a village where it's 30, surely it's not 30 when I see the sign, it's 30 when I've passed it.
This was my situation. I'm at 70 NSL on a motorway, ahead I SEE a 60 sign, then before passing it, it disappeared, so I was never under a 60 no?
The limit starts at the sign.This was my situation. I'm at 70 NSL on a motorway, ahead I SEE a 60 sign, then before passing it, it disappeared, so I was never under a 60 no?
When you get close to the sign and keep looking at it, the image on the sign will look like it disappears. Perhaps this is what you have noticed.
The LEDs are behind an aperture that restricts the direction of the transmitted light. You can’t see the sign when you are close to it.
Perhaps you could try that to defend a case if you were caught exceeding 60. However, you can read a speed limit ahead from about 500m. At 70 mph you have 15 seconds to note the limit. Leaving it to less than 1 second may not fly.
Good luck.
2020vision said:
The limit starts at the sign.
When you get close to the sign and keep looking at it, the image on the sign will look like it disappears. Perhaps this is what you have noticed.
The LEDs are behind an aperture that restricts the direction of the transmitted light. You can t see the sign when you are close to it.
Perhaps you could try that to defend a case if you were caught exceeding 60. However, you can read a speed limit ahead from about 500m. At 70 mph you have 15 seconds to note the limit. Leaving it to less than 1 second may not fly.
Good luck.
So it disappears 100m away? I think notWhen you get close to the sign and keep looking at it, the image on the sign will look like it disappears. Perhaps this is what you have noticed.
The LEDs are behind an aperture that restricts the direction of the transmitted light. You can t see the sign when you are close to it.
Perhaps you could try that to defend a case if you were caught exceeding 60. However, you can read a speed limit ahead from about 500m. At 70 mph you have 15 seconds to note the limit. Leaving it to less than 1 second may not fly.
Good luck.
Quote: I was doing the speed limit, my car has the cruise control that attaches to the sat nav / road signs and keeps to the limit and changes when it does.
So has mine (Merc), but I have it permanently disabled and manually set the limit. Changing automatically as you pass the sign is not good enough, as you are then cannon fodder for the van up the road (or fixed camera) waiting for precisely that. Just wait until all new cars have the compulsory speed limit enforcer built in. Will cause chaos - how many times does your car display the wrong speed limit? Just as a very bad example, my Merc thinks part of the M6 toll is 30......and a 60NSL just outside my village is 20, because it runs parallel to, but half a mile away from the High Street which is 20.
So has mine (Merc), but I have it permanently disabled and manually set the limit. Changing automatically as you pass the sign is not good enough, as you are then cannon fodder for the van up the road (or fixed camera) waiting for precisely that. Just wait until all new cars have the compulsory speed limit enforcer built in. Will cause chaos - how many times does your car display the wrong speed limit? Just as a very bad example, my Merc thinks part of the M6 toll is 30......and a 60NSL just outside my village is 20, because it runs parallel to, but half a mile away from the High Street which is 20.
Regarding motorway overhead gantry signs, took someone to the East Midlands airport last week, Friday, and passed the gantry on the M1 between junction 25 and 26 and got flashed. Surprised as there were no restrictions in place.
Post came today and i have a NIP, exceeding the speed limit, 81mph.
Now, dont misunderstand, i fully accept that i have broken the speed limit but, that must be the only cameras that are turned on for miles on the M1, there were definitely no other restrictions or limits and i find it hard to accept that this is an acceptable use of automatic speed cameras, it was 0300 on a Friday morning, good weather and clear visibility, there was hardly any traffic.
This must have been implemented recently, i travel up and down the M1 often and have never seen these cameras in operation before.
As said above, i was over the speed limit for the motorway so i will just have to suck it up, lesson learnt.
So anyone else travelling along the M1 between junctions 25 and 26, be aware.
Post came today and i have a NIP, exceeding the speed limit, 81mph.
Now, dont misunderstand, i fully accept that i have broken the speed limit but, that must be the only cameras that are turned on for miles on the M1, there were definitely no other restrictions or limits and i find it hard to accept that this is an acceptable use of automatic speed cameras, it was 0300 on a Friday morning, good weather and clear visibility, there was hardly any traffic.
This must have been implemented recently, i travel up and down the M1 often and have never seen these cameras in operation before.
As said above, i was over the speed limit for the motorway so i will just have to suck it up, lesson learnt.
So anyone else travelling along the M1 between junctions 25 and 26, be aware.
nutsyH said:
Quote: I was doing the speed limit, my car has the cruise control that attaches to the sat nav / road signs and keeps to the limit and changes when it does.
So has mine (Merc), but I have it permanently disabled and manually set the limit. Changing automatically as you pass the sign is not good enough, as you are then cannon fodder for the van up the road (or fixed camera) waiting for precisely that. Just wait until all new cars have the compulsory speed limit enforcer built in. Will cause chaos - how many times does your car display the wrong speed limit? Just as a very bad example, my Merc thinks part of the M6 toll is 30......and a 60NSL just outside my village is 20, because it runs parallel to, but half a mile away from the High Street which is 20.
Also, if they're anything like my A6, it's wrong almost as often as it's right but at least it's not linked to the cruise just a display. My old V60 had cruise linked to signs and it was just as hopeless.So has mine (Merc), but I have it permanently disabled and manually set the limit. Changing automatically as you pass the sign is not good enough, as you are then cannon fodder for the van up the road (or fixed camera) waiting for precisely that. Just wait until all new cars have the compulsory speed limit enforcer built in. Will cause chaos - how many times does your car display the wrong speed limit? Just as a very bad example, my Merc thinks part of the M6 toll is 30......and a 60NSL just outside my village is 20, because it runs parallel to, but half a mile away from the High Street which is 20.
Similar, but not identical, to what happened to me a couple of years back https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&....
I didn't hear anything about it.
I didn't hear anything about it.
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