Right to "reject" furniture - distance selling?

[clockworks]

Mum lives in a retirement apartment complex.
She's 89, but still able to do most things for herself.

The complex sometimes has salesmen set up the resident's lounge for the day, selling mobility aids etc.
A couple if months ago, they had someone selling beds and armchairs with electric lift mechanisms.
Unbeknownst to me and my siblings, she signed up for "made to measure" reclining armchair with a lifting seat. Fair enough, she's got some savings, her choice.

2 weeks ago, we visited her and the armchair had been delivered, she wasn't at all happy with it.
She wanted leather (to match her sofa), and the sales guy told her they couldn't supply that. Website and brochure says they can. The supplied fabric irritates the skin on her forearms, causing a rash.

Made to measure seating position, but it even felt a bit big for me at 6'1" - she's just 5'3" now. Way too big for her.
Wrong size, and not the material she wanted, sounds more like it's just what they had in stock.

She had already complained within 30 days, and was waiting for them to send someone out.

She showed us the invoice - over £4.5k!

Does she have any recourse for a refund?

For context on the price, we had a look around at how much a chair with those functions really costs.
We took her to the local up-market furniture store (Julian Foye) and had a look at a lifting armchair that matches her fairly expensive Himolla (German) sofa. No pressure from the sales staff, we were shown where it was, shown the colour swatches, and left to play with it. She loved it, ordered one.
The price - £2.1k. Less than half the price, for a clearly superior product that actually fits her.

I mentioned it to my brother this afternoon, and he got a bit angry about the sales tactics used by these companies, flogging over-priced items to a group of elderly people.

[carl_w]

I don't think you can reject stuff that is made to measure or personalized unless it is faulty.

[Writhing]

I wonder if the retirement complex receives a commission for allowing the sales people to peddle their wares?

[clockworks]

I'm sure there are some backhanders at corporate level.

Point is, it doesn't actually seem to be "made to measure" at all.

[carl_w]

clockworks said:

I'm sure there are some backhanders at corporate level.

Point is, it doesn't actually seem to be "made to measure" at all.

In which case you could say it is faulty and ask for a replacement I guess. Obviously the salesman must have done all the measurements, but then he could say that your mum agreed to them.

[clockworks]

carl_w said:

In which case you could say it is faulty and ask for a replacement I guess. Obviously the salesman must have done all the measurements, but then he could say that your mum agreed to them.

They didn't actually do any measuring, just asked her how tall she was.

[Sir Bagalot]

I've heard of similar before, where a made to measure chair was purchased. Problem was the purchaser was bed bound and measurements were taken from her existing chair. The children went after a refund.

On LBC on Sat/Sun nights 9pm is a legal hour with two very good guys. Dean on Sunday will be a great help.He tell you exactly what your rights are.

On a complex view, are FirstPort the MA's?

[Sheepshanks]

carl_w said:

I don't think you can reject stuff that is made to measure or personalized unless it is faulty.

It's not quite that black and white - things like colour from standard ranges doesn't count, so I'd assume that could apply to the fabric. The size may be selected from a standard range too. Although if it's wrong, it may be alterable.

I wouldn't expect an argument from the sorts of companies that supply these chairs about correcting any issues, but it was probably a bit rash to just go off and buy something else before it was resolved if it could be returned.

[Andy86GT]

I would have thought there was some recourse based on 'fitness for purpose '.
I.e they haven't supplied one that fits her size requirements, especially valid if it was purported to be 'made to measure '.
It sounds like a case of 'miss selling '. I'd try talking to citizens advice.

[Sheepshanks]

Andy86GT said:

I would have thought there was some recourse based on 'fitness for purpose '.
I.e they haven't supplied one that fits her size requirements, especially valid if it was purported to be 'made to measure '.
It sounds like a case of 'miss selling '. I'd try talking to citizens advice.

It may be easily alterable. Or even if they have to build a new one it's going to cost them maybe a few hundred quid vs £4K refund.

Like I said earlier, based on a bit of experience of old people buying stuff, the firms usually fall over themselves to make things right as they don't want too much attention to the prices they're charging old people.

[Dog Biscuit]

Sorry to hear about your mother being unhappy. its a lot to spend and needs to be right. Plus things like this can cause a lot of worry for the older folk

Can she actually get comfy on it, besides the fabric situation?

[MustangGT]

carl_w said:

clockworks said:

I'm sure there are some backhanders at corporate level.

Point is, it doesn't actually seem to be "made to measure" at all.

In which case you could say it is faulty and ask for a replacement I guess. Obviously the salesman must have done all the measurements, but then he could say that your mum agreed to them.

I would go this route, the salesman has obviously made a 'mistake' with the measurements, or the factory has nor built to those measurements. That makes it not fit for purpose, it does not fit her requirements for a made to measure with the build as is. Escalate to the home management if no joy, they should not be allowing shysters in to sell furniture that is not made to measure, as made to measure, they have a duty of care to their residents.

[vaud]

Care home are shysters for allowing sales (that are potentially not returnable) to a captive and often vulnerable audience.

What’s next, selling them a timeshare?

[Simpo Two]

Letting salesmen into a retirement apartment complex - ie large group of potentially vulnerable people - is a field day for the salesmen but a clear disaster waiting to happen. The people who run the place should never have let it happen - so we wonder why they did, perhaps because they stood to gain.

As well as complaining to the chair maker (the word 'vulnerable' might help) I'd be complaining to whoever let them in in the first place. Fox, chickens.
The fact that she was told they couldn't supply leather, but that she ordered (or thought she had) a leather one, might be useful to suggest that she gets confused.

Did she use a credit card?

[clockworks]

I'm pretty sure she used a credit card.

Problem is, she doesn't like to "make a fuss", so I can't see her trying a chargeback. I can't really tell her what to do, just offer advice and help if she asks me.
The company sent someone to have a look, and she's agreed to let them try and sort it out so that it fits her.

[ADJimbo]

vaud said:

Care home are shysters for allowing sales (that are potentially not returnable) to a captive and often vulnerable audience.

What s next, selling them a timeshare?

There’s one in the local village who invited an outfit in who were selling funeral plans.

[ADJimbo]

It’s good news that she complained within the first thirty days as that stops the clock from a CRA(2025) perspective.

The chair is quite clearly unfit for purpose, given the sizing issues you have mentioned so I’d be going down that route first and foremost. Mum was sold a made-to-measure chair and the product supplied does not meet the criteria. Therefore, I’d be using the short-term right to reject on this basis alone.

Given that the product was order and sold off-premise, then The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 come into play with regard to the way the product was sold. The company needs to ensure it left all prescribed paperwork - for example - cancellation details among others - so if they start to demonstrate turbulence then you’ve got this as a backup.

Finally, I’d be placing this issue at the front door of the retirement complex whom invited these clowns in to sell to its residents. That is more a morality stance than a legal stance however.

[Actual]

clockworks said:

I'm pretty sure she used a credit card.

Problem is, she doesn't like to "make a fuss", so I can't see her trying a chargeback.

I recently had cause to use a chargeback for a few £100 and it was so simple to implement using the Lloyds App. All I had to do was identify the transaction and the refund was processed instantly. There would only be an investigation if the retailer disputed the chargeback. I was amazed.

It would put you in a very powerful negotiating position if the cash has been reclaimed from retailer.

A caution that there could be legal and or contract implications with the vendor for using chargeback.

[Simpo Two]

clockworks said:

I'm pretty sure she used a credit card.

Problem is, she doesn't like to "make a fuss", so I can't see her trying a chargeback. I can't really tell her what to do, just offer advice and help if she asks me.
The company sent someone to have a look, and she's agreed to let them try and sort it out so that it fits her.

It's not a fiver, it's £4,500! If she's not going to make a fuss you need to take over the case and run it for her to retrieve the money. Wrong size, wrong material.

That's exactly why sharks go for vulnerable people - because they're trusting, don't like to make a fuss and have no idea how much £4,500 is.

[clockworks]

Mum said that a few other residents had bought the same type of chair previously, and they were very happy with it.

Mum bought a bed from the same company last year, and she's happy with that - apart from the price.

I'll wait and see what they do to "fix" it