Carnival Floats
Discussion
Well suppose this is related to this thread, as carnival floats, have wheels and travel on the road!
The problem.
It is our local carnival on Saturday and the drama group I belong to usually has a float. Its usually a flatbed or curtain sider lorry which we decorate and then have people dancing to the tunes and in the costumes from a hit film or stage show. Unlike many groups in the procession we take safety seriously and therefore bar alcohol from being consumed on the lorry, have a safety rope around the lorry, and tie all those who are dancing to the lorry. Our insurance company advise us that our members are covered by our liability policy in case they fall off.
The problem we have had this year is getting hold of a lorry, as potential lenders have advised that they can't get the lorry insured. Our second thoughts for next year were to acquire a farm trailer, and get it towed behind a tractor, but again farmers have raised questions about insurance.
The lorry and tractor owners are worried about a claim should the float itself run over or hit a member of the public.
I would be interested to know the legal position. After all the roads are closed to traffic, although I am not sure what powers under, I doubt that having people dancing on a lorry or sitting on a lorry back is legal in the first place. Presumably the organisation running the carnival must have public liability insurance would that cover floats hitting the public?
Any comments?
The problem.
It is our local carnival on Saturday and the drama group I belong to usually has a float. Its usually a flatbed or curtain sider lorry which we decorate and then have people dancing to the tunes and in the costumes from a hit film or stage show. Unlike many groups in the procession we take safety seriously and therefore bar alcohol from being consumed on the lorry, have a safety rope around the lorry, and tie all those who are dancing to the lorry. Our insurance company advise us that our members are covered by our liability policy in case they fall off.
The problem we have had this year is getting hold of a lorry, as potential lenders have advised that they can't get the lorry insured. Our second thoughts for next year were to acquire a farm trailer, and get it towed behind a tractor, but again farmers have raised questions about insurance.
The lorry and tractor owners are worried about a claim should the float itself run over or hit a member of the public.
I would be interested to know the legal position. After all the roads are closed to traffic, although I am not sure what powers under, I doubt that having people dancing on a lorry or sitting on a lorry back is legal in the first place. Presumably the organisation running the carnival must have public liability insurance would that cover floats hitting the public?
Any comments?
chrisgr31 said:Comments? I'll give you a comment. Bloody Nanny State, Insurance companies, Claims Direct and the "sue-at-the-drop-of-a-hat" attitude imported from America is ruining this country. All you want to do is run a carnival for heavens sake, not run a drag race up the High Street!
Any comments?
Rich...
I have provided a PA for carnival floats for many years, the highlight being Notting Hill Carnival, We strapp down a 6K Sound system, 10K of lights and two 12K Hatz Deisel Gens on the back. The truck was usualy rented from Ryder but they never stated it was for carnival as they wouldn't allow them to rent it. The Carnival prosession were hopping on and off the float all the time often after consuming large quantaties of alchaol and smoking some funny stuff! Accident? Never had one, Insurance? I doubt it! But we always had the same driver, he was excelent and knew what he was doing!
Do you need to have all your dancers on the float? Could they not follow it with the music facing backwards? If you have a 40ft trailer you can put acro props down it and clamp scaffold poles at waist height to stop them falling off. usualy the procession is moving so slow the danger of injury would be as much as falling off a stationary truck.
Hope this helps.
Do you need to have all your dancers on the float? Could they not follow it with the music facing backwards? If you have a 40ft trailer you can put acro props down it and clamp scaffold poles at waist height to stop them falling off. usualy the procession is moving so slow the danger of injury would be as much as falling off a stationary truck.
Hope this helps.
xxxxxxrich said:
Do you need to have all your dancers on the float? Could they not follow it with the music facing backwards? If you have a 40ft trailer you can put acro props down it and clamp scaffold poles at waist height to stop them falling off. usualy the procession is moving so slow the danger of injury would be as much as falling off a stationary truck.
Hope this helps.
In the past we used a curtain sider, which had a nice metal pole running the whole way along the middle of the roof. We effectively tied all our dancers to that pole, and also put a bar the whole way round to prevent people coming off. That bit we have sorted!
As regards walking and dancing no thanks, its a long way, and it's nowhere near flat! I walked it once in high heels (don't ask! :-D) and couldn;t walk for a week!
The sensible suggestion is not to tell the insurance company but the problem then comes if something goes wrong.
And yes a good driver makes all the difference. Our current driver is excellent. We have had some awful ones in the past!
I supply trucks and drivers for our carnival every year and I would guess its more of an excuse by the operator so they don't have to get involved.
There is a lot of work involved in getting a truck ready for such an event and getting a willing driver to donate his weekend is harder still...maybe they are just using insurance as a get out?
I will always continue to support our carnival no matter what purely on the principal that I refuse to give in to the nanny state.
There is a lot of work involved in getting a truck ready for such an event and getting a willing driver to donate his weekend is harder still...maybe they are just using insurance as a get out?
I will always continue to support our carnival no matter what purely on the principal that I refuse to give in to the nanny state.
a carnival float should be looked at in sections.
.
The vehicle: this should comply with all current road traffic act regulations and should be insured for the same.
Road closed: the insurers should be informed if it’s a closed road event.
Even a closed road event will still be covered by the road traffic act.
The driver should hold the appropriate licence.
The insurance company should be informed, and it checked as to how and what the normal insurance policy covers.
.
If the driver is involved in any road traffic event it’s the same as normal.
.
People on the float
They need to be fully insured; this will be a separate policy to cover people on the float.
People walking should be covered by the event insurance.
The insurers are unlikely to be happy with people drinking alcohol on the float, they tend to get drunk and fall off, land on their heads and die (the back of a lorry it quite high).
.
Important – this should also cover the driver of the float. for example, if the driver has to stop suddenly (should somebody step in front of the float for example) and one of the people on the back of the float falls off, they could look to the driver as contributing to the incident.
.
Trailer Float
It is illegal to tow a trailer with people in it - - unless it’s a carnival float. This is important as anybody on the float from the storage place to the start of the carnival may not be covered as it’s not a carnival float until it’s in the carnival. I would have thought the same applied to lorries but I don’t know that.
The car insurance will cover the car and possibly the trailer, it will not however cover anybody on the float. Anybody even vaguely suggests they will cover it get it in writing.
.
Speed restriction to walking pace not 1st gear as some cars can do 50mph in 1st gear. A manual car in 1st gear tick over is a very fast walking pace, you really need a automatic as a tow car.
.
Occupant’s seat belted in, don’t even go there, it opens up another entire can of worms regarding belt fixings and testing of fixings. It also creates an entirely false sense of security to the driver, if for example everybody is seated and fastened in and the float overturns (floats are normally top heavy and a good clout on a curb would do it) everybody is dead or badly injured. If they are stood on the float, they will make their views known if the driver goes any faster than walking pace. You will need a strong bar or bulkhead at the front of the trailer; this prevents any chance of somebody falling between the car and trailer.
.
Insurance disclaimers: complete waste of time, should an incident happen, the injured party could claim they signed it under duress, did not know what they were signing etc etc. Also, if you did sign one, your life insurance, household insurance and any other insurance you hold could be voided as you have clearly been carrying out an activity that required a disclaimer.
And don’t think ‘good old Fred’ would never sue, he probably would not, but his insurers would look to reclaim or offset their costs will, it all snowballs very quickly.
.
The vehicle: this should comply with all current road traffic act regulations and should be insured for the same.
Road closed: the insurers should be informed if it’s a closed road event.
Even a closed road event will still be covered by the road traffic act.
The driver should hold the appropriate licence.
The insurance company should be informed, and it checked as to how and what the normal insurance policy covers.
.
If the driver is involved in any road traffic event it’s the same as normal.
.
People on the float
They need to be fully insured; this will be a separate policy to cover people on the float.
People walking should be covered by the event insurance.
The insurers are unlikely to be happy with people drinking alcohol on the float, they tend to get drunk and fall off, land on their heads and die (the back of a lorry it quite high).
.
Important – this should also cover the driver of the float. for example, if the driver has to stop suddenly (should somebody step in front of the float for example) and one of the people on the back of the float falls off, they could look to the driver as contributing to the incident.
.
Trailer Float
It is illegal to tow a trailer with people in it - - unless it’s a carnival float. This is important as anybody on the float from the storage place to the start of the carnival may not be covered as it’s not a carnival float until it’s in the carnival. I would have thought the same applied to lorries but I don’t know that.
The car insurance will cover the car and possibly the trailer, it will not however cover anybody on the float. Anybody even vaguely suggests they will cover it get it in writing.
.
Speed restriction to walking pace not 1st gear as some cars can do 50mph in 1st gear. A manual car in 1st gear tick over is a very fast walking pace, you really need a automatic as a tow car.
.
Occupant’s seat belted in, don’t even go there, it opens up another entire can of worms regarding belt fixings and testing of fixings. It also creates an entirely false sense of security to the driver, if for example everybody is seated and fastened in and the float overturns (floats are normally top heavy and a good clout on a curb would do it) everybody is dead or badly injured. If they are stood on the float, they will make their views known if the driver goes any faster than walking pace. You will need a strong bar or bulkhead at the front of the trailer; this prevents any chance of somebody falling between the car and trailer.
.
Insurance disclaimers: complete waste of time, should an incident happen, the injured party could claim they signed it under duress, did not know what they were signing etc etc. Also, if you did sign one, your life insurance, household insurance and any other insurance you hold could be voided as you have clearly been carrying out an activity that required a disclaimer.
And don’t think ‘good old Fred’ would never sue, he probably would not, but his insurers would look to reclaim or offset their costs will, it all snowballs very quickly.
4x4disco said:
a carnival float should be looked at in sections.
.
The vehicle: this should comply with all current road traffic act regulations and should be insured for the same.
Road closed: the insurers should be informed if it s a closed road event.
Even a closed road event will still be covered by the road traffic act.
The driver should hold the appropriate licence.
The insurance company should be informed, and it checked as to how and what the normal insurance policy covers.
.
If the driver is involved in any road traffic event it s the same as normal.
.
People on the float
They need to be fully insured; this will be a separate policy to cover people on the float.
People walking should be covered by the event insurance.
The insurers are unlikely to be happy with people drinking alcohol on the float, they tend to get drunk and fall off, land on their heads and die (the back of a lorry it quite high).
.
Important this should also cover the driver of the float. for example, if the driver has to stop suddenly (should somebody step in front of the float for example) and one of the people on the back of the float falls off, they could look to the driver as contributing to the incident.
.
Trailer Float
It is illegal to tow a trailer with people in it - - unless it s a carnival float. This is important as anybody on the float from the storage place to the start of the carnival may not be covered as it s not a carnival float until it s in the carnival. I would have thought the same applied to lorries but I don t know that.
The car insurance will cover the car and possibly the trailer, it will not however cover anybody on the float. Anybody even vaguely suggests they will cover it get it in writing.
.
Speed restriction to walking pace not 1st gear as some cars can do 50mph in 1st gear. A manual car in 1st gear tick over is a very fast walking pace, you really need a automatic as a tow car.
.
Occupant s seat belted in, don t even go there, it opens up another entire can of worms regarding belt fixings and testing of fixings. It also creates an entirely false sense of security to the driver, if for example everybody is seated and fastened in and the float overturns (floats are normally top heavy and a good clout on a curb would do it) everybody is dead or badly injured. If they are stood on the float, they will make their views known if the driver goes any faster than walking pace. You will need a strong bar or bulkhead at the front of the trailer; this prevents any chance of somebody falling between the car and trailer.
.
Insurance disclaimers: complete waste of time, should an incident happen, the injured party could claim they signed it under duress, did not know what they were signing etc etc. Also, if you did sign one, your life insurance, household insurance and any other insurance you hold could be voided as you have clearly been carrying out an activity that required a disclaimer.
And don t think good old Fred would never sue, he probably would not, but his insurers would look to reclaim or offset their costs will, it all snowballs very quickly.
Apologies if this seems rude but I'm always curious as to how and why these threads get bumped. How did you find a 21 year old thread and what's the purpose of responding to it?.
The vehicle: this should comply with all current road traffic act regulations and should be insured for the same.
Road closed: the insurers should be informed if it s a closed road event.
Even a closed road event will still be covered by the road traffic act.
The driver should hold the appropriate licence.
The insurance company should be informed, and it checked as to how and what the normal insurance policy covers.
.
If the driver is involved in any road traffic event it s the same as normal.
.
People on the float
They need to be fully insured; this will be a separate policy to cover people on the float.
People walking should be covered by the event insurance.
The insurers are unlikely to be happy with people drinking alcohol on the float, they tend to get drunk and fall off, land on their heads and die (the back of a lorry it quite high).
.
Important this should also cover the driver of the float. for example, if the driver has to stop suddenly (should somebody step in front of the float for example) and one of the people on the back of the float falls off, they could look to the driver as contributing to the incident.
.
Trailer Float
It is illegal to tow a trailer with people in it - - unless it s a carnival float. This is important as anybody on the float from the storage place to the start of the carnival may not be covered as it s not a carnival float until it s in the carnival. I would have thought the same applied to lorries but I don t know that.
The car insurance will cover the car and possibly the trailer, it will not however cover anybody on the float. Anybody even vaguely suggests they will cover it get it in writing.
.
Speed restriction to walking pace not 1st gear as some cars can do 50mph in 1st gear. A manual car in 1st gear tick over is a very fast walking pace, you really need a automatic as a tow car.
.
Occupant s seat belted in, don t even go there, it opens up another entire can of worms regarding belt fixings and testing of fixings. It also creates an entirely false sense of security to the driver, if for example everybody is seated and fastened in and the float overturns (floats are normally top heavy and a good clout on a curb would do it) everybody is dead or badly injured. If they are stood on the float, they will make their views known if the driver goes any faster than walking pace. You will need a strong bar or bulkhead at the front of the trailer; this prevents any chance of somebody falling between the car and trailer.
.
Insurance disclaimers: complete waste of time, should an incident happen, the injured party could claim they signed it under duress, did not know what they were signing etc etc. Also, if you did sign one, your life insurance, household insurance and any other insurance you hold could be voided as you have clearly been carrying out an activity that required a disclaimer.
And don t think good old Fred would never sue, he probably would not, but his insurers would look to reclaim or offset their costs will, it all snowballs very quickly.
From what i can figure out tge last post from 4x4disco was in 2010 
Here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
zalrak said:
From what i can figure out tge last post from 4x4disco was in 2010
Here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Account hacked and replaced by an AI bot?Here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
My kids always rode their infant school carnival float, and my wife is chair of governors at the school now.
Odd to think i hadn't even met my wife when this thread was started....
Anyway, they use tractors from the local farmer, but I did hear the usual lorry fleet providers couldn't get insurance last year, so there were hardly any floats last year.
Odd to think i hadn't even met my wife when this thread was started....
Anyway, they use tractors from the local farmer, but I did hear the usual lorry fleet providers couldn't get insurance last year, so there were hardly any floats last year.
Yellow Lizud said:
I never used to have much faith in AI, however I might need to change my view. As it has now explained perfectly, in great detail, exactly how the nanny state, with it's red tape, health and safety, ecoism, wokeism, etc, etc, has completely f
ked this country.
I said 20+ years ago that the country would eventually grind itself to a halt with regulations, and so far it's going well.ked this country.We now have the joy of Digital ID to look forward to (was that in Labour's manifesto? Don't recall anyone voting for it) which should finish the job. Not only is it a huge government software project (they never work) costing f
k-knows how many billion, but it relies on the internet, a mobile phone, a signal and a battery to work. If it's not hacked for ransom some junior IT bod in the Home Office will accidentally put it all online...
zalrak said:
From what i can figure out tge last post from 4x4disco was in 2010
Here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
He's been sleeping with one eye open, waiting for the call....Here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
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