Rental Bond dispute.
Discussion
Looking for abit of advice please guys.
Recently moved out of a house we'd been renting for close to 3 years, prior to moving we painted all walls back to the original colour and had the oven cleaned.
The living room carpet was replaced about a year and six months into tenancy due to the carpet being quite cheap and going threadbare so we replaced with laminate flooring (with the permission of the Landlords via the agency that were dealing with the house, there name is similar to "lee").
Up until the middle of last year my brother in law used to clean the carpets ( has a cleaning company ) but advised us not to continue as the carpet were very easily worn and the quality not being very high (agency aware we would have a company cleaning the carpets), during 6 monthly inspections we advised the agency the problem with the carpets and they said they understood and noted our comments that we felt they were easily worn due to wear and tear due to family life, 2 children under the age of 4 etc.
So to the issue, OH rang last thursday to see when the bond was to be returned only to be advised that they had decided they are keeping the full £600 bond due to "issues" regarding the oven and upstairs carpet..
The Issue's with the oven is that the numbers surrounding the dials (the ones for gas mark etc) had worn off and they wanted to use part of the bond to replace the whole cooker.
The issue's with the upstairs carpets being they are worn and dull and I quote "Didn't look the same colour as they did in the original photos".
The OH pointed out that this was due to wear and tear and that in our tenancy agreement we weren't liable for such costs and that we had made reasonable efforts to rectify any changes (such as painting the walls back to original colour etc) and cleaned the house thoroughly.
Now the kicker is that the Landlords live in our village and it's one of those villages where everyone knows everyones business, the landlords bought a number of houses just before the housing/market crash and have since been struggling with other costs such as buildling a new house on land they purchased so I'm thinking they are trying to get the bond off us to stop themselves from having to payout for wear and tear costs.
Any advice on what we are liable would be appreciated, sorry for the long post if you want any more info please post.
These are the sizes of the rooms, which I don't think costs the whole bond to replace with the same cheap carpet
Bedroom One 3.89 x 3.61
Bedroom Two 3.89 x 2.59
Bedroom Three 3.68 x 2.36
Recently moved out of a house we'd been renting for close to 3 years, prior to moving we painted all walls back to the original colour and had the oven cleaned.
The living room carpet was replaced about a year and six months into tenancy due to the carpet being quite cheap and going threadbare so we replaced with laminate flooring (with the permission of the Landlords via the agency that were dealing with the house, there name is similar to "lee").
Up until the middle of last year my brother in law used to clean the carpets ( has a cleaning company ) but advised us not to continue as the carpet were very easily worn and the quality not being very high (agency aware we would have a company cleaning the carpets), during 6 monthly inspections we advised the agency the problem with the carpets and they said they understood and noted our comments that we felt they were easily worn due to wear and tear due to family life, 2 children under the age of 4 etc.
So to the issue, OH rang last thursday to see when the bond was to be returned only to be advised that they had decided they are keeping the full £600 bond due to "issues" regarding the oven and upstairs carpet..
The Issue's with the oven is that the numbers surrounding the dials (the ones for gas mark etc) had worn off and they wanted to use part of the bond to replace the whole cooker.
The issue's with the upstairs carpets being they are worn and dull and I quote "Didn't look the same colour as they did in the original photos".
The OH pointed out that this was due to wear and tear and that in our tenancy agreement we weren't liable for such costs and that we had made reasonable efforts to rectify any changes (such as painting the walls back to original colour etc) and cleaned the house thoroughly.
Now the kicker is that the Landlords live in our village and it's one of those villages where everyone knows everyones business, the landlords bought a number of houses just before the housing/market crash and have since been struggling with other costs such as buildling a new house on land they purchased so I'm thinking they are trying to get the bond off us to stop themselves from having to payout for wear and tear costs.
Any advice on what we are liable would be appreciated, sorry for the long post if you want any more info please post.
These are the sizes of the rooms, which I don't think costs the whole bond to replace with the same cheap carpet
Bedroom One 3.89 x 3.61
Bedroom Two 3.89 x 2.59
Bedroom Three 3.68 x 2.36
I'd tell 'em to go jump!!!!!
Point out normal wear and tear would mean exactly that. After three years of use I'd imagine most household appliances show some wear. Doesn't mean it needs replacing though. As for the colour of the carpets, I'd send 'em another photo, slightly altered, to show a colour exactly like theirs
(photoshop etc.)
Seriously, if your post is 100% accurate, then I don't see how they've got much to complain about, and even less to try and hold deposit back.
What about where the deposit is registered?
Point out normal wear and tear would mean exactly that. After three years of use I'd imagine most household appliances show some wear. Doesn't mean it needs replacing though. As for the colour of the carpets, I'd send 'em another photo, slightly altered, to show a colour exactly like theirs
(photoshop etc.)Seriously, if your post is 100% accurate, then I don't see how they've got much to complain about, and even less to try and hold deposit back.
What about where the deposit is registered?
Amused2death said:
I'd tell 'em to go jump!!!!!
Point out normal wear and tear would mean exactly that. After three years of use I'd imagine most household appliances show some wear. Doesn't mean it needs replacing though. As for the colour of the carpets, I'd send 'em another photo, slightly altered, to show a colour exactly like theirs (photoshop etc.)
Seriously, if your post is 100% accurate, then I don't see how they've got much to complain about, and even less to try and hold deposit back.
What about where the deposit is registered?
The deposit is held with the correct scheme (first thing I checked when we moved in)Point out normal wear and tear would mean exactly that. After three years of use I'd imagine most household appliances show some wear. Doesn't mean it needs replacing though. As for the colour of the carpets, I'd send 'em another photo, slightly altered, to show a colour exactly like theirs
(photoshop etc.)Seriously, if your post is 100% accurate, then I don't see how they've got much to complain about, and even less to try and hold deposit back.
What about where the deposit is registered?
IANAL, but as a reasonable person I'd expect some wear and tear to anything that has been used for three years, whether it's a carpet, a car, a cooker or a bloody saucepan 
If I was you I'd be fairly confident of getting all your deposit back, but it might take a bit of time. Stand your ground and demand it's return in full.
If I was you I'd be fairly confident of getting all your deposit back, but it might take a bit of time. Stand your ground and demand it's return in full.
Kevin VRs said:
Get in touch with the deposit scheme to start a dispute. Give them all your evidence such as before and after photos, correspondence etc. If your account is correct you should not have much trouble getting your deposit back.
I read that the landlords can refuse to take it to dispute, if that happens is the last resort court?.ZOLLAR said:
Kevin VRs said:
Get in touch with the deposit scheme to start a dispute. Give them all your evidence such as before and after photos, correspondence etc. If your account is correct you should not have much trouble getting your deposit back.
I read that the landlords can refuse to take it to dispute, if that happens is the last resort court?.BarnatosGhost said:
ZOLLAR said:
Kevin VRs said:
Get in touch with the deposit scheme to start a dispute. Give them all your evidence such as before and after photos, correspondence etc. If your account is correct you should not have much trouble getting your deposit back.
I read that the landlords can refuse to take it to dispute, if that happens is the last resort court?."Disputes under the custodial tenancy deposit protection scheme
The custodial scheme - called the Deposit Protection Service (DPS) - will keep the deposit until its ADR service or the courts decide how much of the deposit should be returned to the tenant.
Neither you nor your tenant has to use the ADR service, but if you agree to do so, you must both accept its decision. If you refuse to use an ADR service, your tenant can apply to the county court for a decision
"
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Priva...
Basically does that mean if the landlords refuse ADR I'll have to got to county court for a decision?
ZOLLAR said:
BarnatosGhost said:
ZOLLAR said:
Kevin VRs said:
Get in touch with the deposit scheme to start a dispute. Give them all your evidence such as before and after photos, correspondence etc. If your account is correct you should not have much trouble getting your deposit back.
I read that the landlords can refuse to take it to dispute, if that happens is the last resort court?."Disputes under the custodial tenancy deposit protection scheme
The custodial scheme - called the Deposit Protection Service (DPS) - will keep the deposit until its ADR service or the courts decide how much of the deposit should be returned to the tenant.
Neither you nor your tenant has to use the ADR service, but if you agree to do so, you must both accept its decision. If you refuse to use an ADR service, your tenant can apply to the county court for a decision
"
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Priva...
Basically does that mean if the landlords refuse ADR I'll have to got to county court for a decision?
A sensible landlord would roll-over before getting an embarrassing and expensive trip to court.
ZOLLAR said:
Basically does that mean if the landlords refuse ADR I'll have to got to county court for a decision?
In essence that would appear to be what the thing says. But I would rather think the landlord will get screwed over by the court in that case, the whole point of the TDS was to stop these things getting to court.... Same goes with any refusal to attend ADR, doesn't go well for a party who refuses without good reason.
Do you have pictures of the place the day you left? If not, please in future do so. Each and every room.
The numbers on the cooker, were they worn when you moved in? In any event this would be unjust enrichment - a new cooker for some rubbed numbers is not going to wash with a court, the landlord would be gaining rather than simply covering any loss. Again, not going to go well for him in court if that is the case.
Jasandjules said:
In essence that would appear to be what the thing says.
But I would rather think the landlord will get screwed over by the court in that case, the whole point of the TDS was to stop these things getting to court.... Same goes with any refusal to attend ADR, doesn't go well for a party who refuses without good reason.
Do you have pictures of the place the day you left? If not, please in future do so. Each and every room.
The numbers on the cooker, were they worn when you moved in? In any event this would be unjust enrichment - a new cooker for some rubbed numbers is not going to wash with a court, the landlord would be gaining rather than simply covering any loss. Again, not going to go well for him in court if that is the case.
No it was a new cooker when we moved in, the cooker itself is spotless but we've checked out cookers of varying models and the ones with "sticker" type numbers do come off very easily, I'm happy to pay for a permanent marker pen to be used to write the numbers back on.But I would rather think the landlord will get screwed over by the court in that case, the whole point of the TDS was to stop these things getting to court.... Same goes with any refusal to attend ADR, doesn't go well for a party who refuses without good reason.
Do you have pictures of the place the day you left? If not, please in future do so. Each and every room.
The numbers on the cooker, were they worn when you moved in? In any event this would be unjust enrichment - a new cooker for some rubbed numbers is not going to wash with a court, the landlord would be gaining rather than simply covering any loss. Again, not going to go well for him in court if that is the case.
ZOLLAR said:
No it was a new cooker when we moved in, the cooker itself is spotless but we've checked out cookers of varying models and the ones with "sticker" type numbers do come off very easily, I'm happy to pay for a permanent marker pen to be used to write the numbers back on.
Ok, well in that case yes, a replacement "sticker" or somesuch might be considered reasonable, but then you also have a question of wear and tear to account for - what does the contract say in respect of wear and tear? A new cooker is however preposterous!Jasandjules said:
ZOLLAR said:
No it was a new cooker when we moved in, the cooker itself is spotless but we've checked out cookers of varying models and the ones with "sticker" type numbers do come off very easily, I'm happy to pay for a permanent marker pen to be used to write the numbers back on.
Ok, well in that case yes, a replacement "sticker" or somesuch might be considered reasonable, but then you also have a question of wear and tear to account for - what does the contract say in respect of wear and tear? A new cooker is however preposterous!ZOLLAR said:
I haven't got the tenancy agreement on me but I read the agreement on the weekend and it mentions "reasonable wear and tear" obviously that is a quite a wide ranging statement personally due to the type of carpet the current state was expected as we had to replace the living room carpet a year and half into the tenancy (it was newly laid as we moved in) the guy on the phone said to the other half that it "had to be exactly the same as in the pictures" which frankly I think is rediculous as no carpet would hold it's own after 3 years.
Frankly any carpet needing replacing within 18 months I would suggest was not fit for a rental property as well..... I'd be considering setting that off against any other matter and putting in writing that you will be doing so.And yes I agree, there is no requirement for a carpet to look "exactly" the same three years later, it would be a ludicrously unreasonable term in a contract. Now, if you'd had a dog and it was stained, that would be a different matter but then you'd be looking at professional cleaning costs.....
Jasandjules said:
Frankly any carpet needing replacing within 18 months I would suggest was not fit for a rental property as well..... I'd be considering setting that off against any other matter and putting in writing that you will be doing so.
And yes I agree, there is no requirement for a carpet to look "exactly" the same three years later, it would be a ludicrously unreasonable term in a contract. Now, if you'd had a dog and it was stained, that would be a different matter but then you'd be looking at professional cleaning costs.....
No animals allowed as per the agreement, as mentioned in OP brother in law has a cleaning company and mentioned from experience it appeared to be a very cheap carpet.And yes I agree, there is no requirement for a carpet to look "exactly" the same three years later, it would be a ludicrously unreasonable term in a contract. Now, if you'd had a dog and it was stained, that would be a different matter but then you'd be looking at professional cleaning costs.....
ZOLLAR said:
No animals allowed as per the agreement, as mentioned in OP brother in law has a cleaning company and mentioned from experience it appeared to be a very cheap carpet.
Fair enough, I was just giving an example really.If you are intending to write to them about getting your deposit back (and I would in your shoes, and send it recorded) I am happy to assist in the drafting (including mention of the replacement carpet - BTW why did you replace it and not the landlord?).
Jasandjules said:
ZOLLAR said:
No animals allowed as per the agreement, as mentioned in OP brother in law has a cleaning company and mentioned from experience it appeared to be a very cheap carpet.
Fair enough, I was just giving an example really.If you are intending to write to them about getting your deposit back (and I would in your shoes, and send it recorded) I am happy to assist in the drafting (including mention of the replacement carpet - BTW why did you replace it and not the landlord?).
I'm going to ring them tomorrow as it's my OH has been dealing till now if I get nowhere I may take you up on that offer thank you.
ZOLLAR said:
We replaced with laminate, we checked first to make sure it was ok and even left the laminate there which was fairly expensive in the first place.
I'm going to ring them tomorrow as it's my OH has been dealing till now if I get nowhere I may take you up on that offer thank you.
Will you be ringing from work so the call is recorded? If not, use a portable recording device (I sound paranoid but I work on the basis of proving things easily)....I'm going to ring them tomorrow as it's my OH has been dealing till now if I get nowhere I may take you up on that offer thank you.
Jasandjules said:
ZOLLAR said:
We replaced with laminate, we checked first to make sure it was ok and even left the laminate there which was fairly expensive in the first place.
I'm going to ring them tomorrow as it's my OH has been dealing till now if I get nowhere I may take you up on that offer thank you.
Will you be ringing from work so the call is recorded? If not, use a portable recording device (I sound paranoid but I work on the basis of proving things easily)....I'm going to ring them tomorrow as it's my OH has been dealing till now if I get nowhere I may take you up on that offer thank you.
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